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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jul 14, 2023 15:03:55 GMT
I like "Don't Fight The Sea" a lot, too. I don't want to get carried away, but I think it's one of the best songs that Al's written. To Kapitan's point, it was released prior to That's Why God Made The Radio which would've been a sticking point with me and other diehards. However, The Beach Boys have done that in the past, resurrecting previously released songs, so it would not have been something entirely new. Maybe Joe Thomas could've re-recorded it with the then current BB lineup, keeping Carl's part intact of course.
The Cincinnati Kid, as much as I like "Don't Fight The Sea", I'm not sure it would've made the best choice for a single (did Al ever release it or any single from A Postcard From California? Just curious). I always proposed "Spring Vacation" in, um, the spring of 2012 and follow that up with maybe "Isn't It Time" or, yes, "Summer's Gone", a choice which puts me in a small minority. I do like your thought of putting it on a Beach Boys' No Pier Pressure or even Brian's No Pier Pressure, though. I can hear it right after "Sail Away".
I think a shortened version of Don't Fight the Sea was actually a single sort of credited to the Beach Boys for tsunami relief or something. Maybe that doesn't really count. What makes you say it wouldn't be a great single? The song itself is really good, has a driving energy to it, is ocean themed, plus can be marketed as a long lost classic with a vocal from Carl. Just seems like there's a lot to work with to me. As far as what was actually released, I've always agreed with you that Spring Vacation should have been the lead single. When I was talking about putting songs on NPP, I meant songs that were kicked off of TWGMTR. Though that gives me an idea. Take songs from Postcards, TWGMTR, NPP, and UTL and turn it into three Beach Boys albums. I might try that if I have time later. I don't know, maybe "Don't Fight The Sea" would've been too "turbulent" (is that good term?) lyrically for a Beach Boys' single at that time, especially THE lead-off single from the album. I would choose something more positive, you know, good ol' Beach Boys' joy of living stuff. Also, while I would've accepted putting Carl's voice/vocal on That's Why God Made The Radio, I don't think I would've featured it/him on a NEW single. Not that it would've necessarily been deceiving to general music fans, as if Carl was still living and still with The Beach Boys, but I would've felt more comfortable leaving the song as an album cut.
As far as songs that were kicked off of That's Why God Made The Radio, what were they? There weren't many, but I believe there are still some unreleased B.Wilson/J.Thomas songs in somebody's tape vaults. And, I'd love to hear your three-album series from that group of selected albums.
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Post by The Cincinnati Kid on Jul 14, 2023 15:35:50 GMT
I think a shortened version of Don't Fight the Sea was actually a single sort of credited to the Beach Boys for tsunami relief or something. Maybe that doesn't really count. What makes you say it wouldn't be a great single? The song itself is really good, has a driving energy to it, is ocean themed, plus can be marketed as a long lost classic with a vocal from Carl. Just seems like there's a lot to work with to me. As far as what was actually released, I've always agreed with you that Spring Vacation should have been the lead single. When I was talking about putting songs on NPP, I meant songs that were kicked off of TWGMTR. Though that gives me an idea. Take songs from Postcards, TWGMTR, NPP, and UTL and turn it into three Beach Boys albums. I might try that if I have time later. I don't know, maybe "Don't Fight The Sea" would've been too "turbulent" (is that good term?) lyrically for a Beach Boys' single at that time, especially THE lead-off single from the album. I would choose something more positive, you know, good ol' Beach Boys' joy of living stuff. Also, while I would've accepted putting Carl's voice/vocal on That's Why God Made The Radio, I don't think I would've featured it/him on a NEW single. Not that it would've necessarily been deceiving to general music fans, as if Carl was still living and still with The Beach Boys, but I would've felt more comfortable leaving the song as an album cut. As far as songs that were kicked off of That's Why God Made The Radio, what were they? There weren't many, but I believe there are still some unreleased B.Wilson/J.Thomas songs in somebody's tape vaults. And, I'd love to hear your three-album series from that group of selected albums. I suppose that could be true, although I always took it as saying respect the ocean, nothing more, nothing less. Just a more mature topic for them to sing about the water that doesn't involve the beach or surfing. When I said kicked off TWGMTR, I meant theoretically to make way for Al's and whoever else's songs.
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Post by Kapitan on Jul 14, 2023 19:31:48 GMT
I don't know about "Don't Fight the Sea" as a single, or lead off single especially. But I don't think there's anything lyrically that's a problem. I get Sheriff John Stone's point, in that it isn't quite so explicitly Beach Boysish as you might hope. But I don't think it's "Til I Die" or anything, either! Begrudgingly--or rather, sadly?--I have to say I agree with The Cincinnati Kid that it might have been better had Al's album not been released and those songs been on a Beach Boys album. Really I'd be fine with ALL of his originals plus "DFTS" as Beach Boys songs:"Postcard," "Drivin," "San Simeon," and "And I Always Will." Now, would Al get four tunes on a single Beach Boys album? Hard to justify ... but if TWGMTR had been a double album... Articles from the time say they recorded 28 or 29 songs, if I'm not mistaken. My assumption is that some of those songs ended up on NPP. And yes, I'd rather that those were Beach Boys songs, too. Obviously Mike would have liked more songs, and if they were any good, great. A double-album for your band's finale, now that's a great way to go. (Assuming it's good!)
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jul 14, 2023 19:44:54 GMT
The Cincinnati Kid, as much as I like "Don't Fight The Sea", I'm not sure it would've made the best choice for a single (did Al ever release it or any single from A Postcard From California? Just curious).
I think a shortened version of Don't Fight the Sea was actually a single sort of credited to the Beach Boys for tsunami relief or something. Here ya go - for the National Marine Sanctuaries. Good old Al.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jul 14, 2023 20:09:29 GMT
Begrudgingly--or rather, sadly?--I have to say I agree with The Cincinnati Kid that it might have been better had Al's album not been released and those songs been on a Beach Boys album. Really I'd be fine with ALL of his originals plus "DFTS" as Beach Boys songs: "Postcard," "Drivin," "San Simeon," and "And I Always Will." Now, would Al get four tunes on a single Beach Boys album? Hard to justify ... but if TWGMTR had been a double album... Articles from the time say they recorded 28 or 29 songs, if I'm not mistaken. My assumption is that some of those songs ended up on NPP. And yes, I'd rather that those were Beach Boys songs, too. Obviously Mike would have liked more songs, and if they were any good, great. I would've definitely welcomed "Don't Fight The Sea" or a re-worked/improved "Waves Of Love" for That's Why God Made The Radio, but NOT those other Al Jardine solo songs. I find them boring and not of the quality of the other TWGMTR songs (other than "Beaches In Mind" which I would've gladly sacrificed). I would've given Al one song, and only considered the two aforementioned ones. I also gotta make room for a Bruce song.
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Post by Kapitan on Jul 14, 2023 20:18:58 GMT
btw I was wondering where I had that "28 or 29 songs" I mentioned as having been considered. I did find it, in one of Jason Fine's big Rolling Stone articles. "In all, 28 tracks were cut. And with only one more day of studio time booked, no one but Wilson knows which dozen will make the album." What's interesting to me is, that same part of the article (also quoted) certainly implies it wasn't just up to the label which songs would make the album, but to Wilson. The article continues to imply that. I wonder where that balance lay. As for the stuff about those other Al songs, I don't think they're great or anything ... but I think they're fine. And I think with the other Beach Boys contributing, they'd be better than they are. If I could either have Postcard or have TWGMTR as a double album with them, I'd take the latter.
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Post by lonelysummer on Jul 14, 2023 23:18:00 GMT
I like "Don't Fight The Sea" a lot, too. I don't want to get carried away, but I think it's one of the best songs that Al's written. To Kapitan's point, it was released prior to That's Why God Made The Radio which would've been a sticking point with me and other diehards. However, The Beach Boys have done that in the past, resurrecting previously released songs, so it would not have been something entirely new. Maybe Joe Thomas could've re-recorded it with the then current BB lineup, keeping Carl's part intact of course.
The Cincinnati Kid, as much as I like "Don't Fight The Sea", I'm not sure it would've made the best choice for a single (did Al ever release it or any single from A Postcard From California? Just curious). I always proposed "Spring Vacation" in, um, the spring of 2012 and follow that up with maybe "Isn't It Time" or, yes, "Summer's Gone", a choice which puts me in a small minority. I do like your thought of putting it on a Beach Boys' No Pier Pressure or even Brian's No Pier Pressure, though. I can hear it right after "Sail Away".
I think a shortened version of Don't Fight the Sea was actually a single sort of credited to the Beach Boys for tsunami relief or something. Maybe that doesn't really count. What makes you say it wouldn't be a great single? The song itself is really good, has a driving energy to it, is ocean themed, plus can be marketed as a long lost classic with a vocal from Carl. Just seems like there's a lot to work with to me. As far as what was actually released, I've always agreed with you that Spring Vacation should have been the lead single. When I was talking about putting songs on NPP, I meant songs that were kicked off of TWGMTR. Though that gives me an idea. Take songs from Postcards, TWGMTR, NPP, and UTL and turn it into three Beach Boys albums. I might try that if I have time later. Singles don't matter for bands from the 60's in today's market. Nobody plays their new music. I never heard any TWGMTR songs on the radio or even in-store music systems. The album had a very short shelf life - as soon as the reunion was over, so was any promotion for the album.
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Post by B.E. on Jul 14, 2023 23:48:37 GMT
Do it Again, I Can Hear Music... aw heck, why do I even check mark my favorites on the list, when I'm going to write them out here...Slip on Through, This Whole World, It's About Time, All I Wanna Do, Forever, Our Sweet Love, Cool Cool Water, just mark me down for the entire Sunflower album. Because they won't be counted otherwise. Please, everyone, check the boxes to cast your votes so the results are as accurate as possible. I don't count manually; I rely on the poll. Posting your selections is also encouraged for discussion purposes. Thanks!
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Post by The Cincinnati Kid on Jul 15, 2023 1:27:27 GMT
I think a shortened version of Don't Fight the Sea was actually a single sort of credited to the Beach Boys for tsunami relief or something. Maybe that doesn't really count. What makes you say it wouldn't be a great single? The song itself is really good, has a driving energy to it, is ocean themed, plus can be marketed as a long lost classic with a vocal from Carl. Just seems like there's a lot to work with to me. As far as what was actually released, I've always agreed with you that Spring Vacation should have been the lead single. When I was talking about putting songs on NPP, I meant songs that were kicked off of TWGMTR. Though that gives me an idea. Take songs from Postcards, TWGMTR, NPP, and UTL and turn it into three Beach Boys albums. I might try that if I have time later. Singles don't matter for bands from the 60's in today's market. Nobody plays their new music. I never heard any TWGMTR songs on the radio or even in-store music systems. The album had a very short shelf life - as soon as the reunion was over, so was any promotion for the album. Of course it would be very improbable to have a hit, but not out of the realm of possibility for a song to chart for a short period of time. The title track to TWGMTR was #30 on the AC chart, so it was being played somewhere.
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Post by B.E. on Jul 15, 2023 14:55:02 GMT
I really needed 11 votes...
1. Forever 2. This Whole World 3. Do It Again 4. Tears in the Morning 5. Slip On Through 6. I Can Hear Music 7. All I Want To Do 8. All I Wanna Do 9. Cotton Fields (Album Version) 10. Break Away
I know (he and) it gets a lot of hate, but I'm still surprised I'm the only person to vote for "Tears in the Morning".
And, yeah, it's awkward putting two very similarly titled tracks next to each other, but I listened and listened and that's the order I came up with!
"Time To Get Alone", "Add Some Music To Your Day", and "Our Sweet Love" were next up (in that order).
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Post by B.E. on Jul 15, 2023 15:07:41 GMT
Wow, some surprises here. I didn't now Nearest Faraway was such a favorite, or Diedre, for that matter. Regarding "The Nearest Faraway Place" - with respect to the posters here who voted for it - I don't think it is. While it currently has 3 votes out of 9 voters, based on reading various message boards over the years, it wouldn't surprise me if it took another 50 voters before it reached 4 votes.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jul 15, 2023 16:22:41 GMT
Wow, some surprises here. I didn't now Nearest Faraway was such a favorite, or Diedre, for that matter. Regarding "The Nearest Faraway Place" - with respect to the posters here who voted for it - I don't think it is. While it currently has 3 votes out of 9 voters, based on reading various message boards over the years, it wouldn't surprise me if it took another 50 voters before it reached 4 votes. While that ^ might be true, I also think it would also be a long shot on various message boards to find "Tears In The Morning" receiving more votes than "Time To Get Alone", "Add Some Music To Your Day", and ""Our Sweet Love" (yes, I know you have those three as next up picks).
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Post by B.E. on Jul 15, 2023 17:01:20 GMT
Regarding "The Nearest Faraway Place" - with respect to the posters here who voted for it - I don't think it is. While it currently has 3 votes out of 9 voters, based on reading various message boards over the years, it wouldn't surprise me if it took another 50 voters before it reached 4 votes. While that ^ might be true, I also think it would also be a long shot on various message boards to find "Tears In The Morning" receiving more votes than "Time To Get Alone", "Add Some Music To Your Day", and ""Our Sweet Love" (yes, I know you have those three as next up picks). I agree with you that "Tears in the Morning" wouldn't fare much better on other boards, particularly against the likes of "Time to Get Alone" and "Add Some Music" but I think it might match "Our Sweet Love" (which only had 2 votes vs 1 for "Tears in the Morning" here, so...). Anyway, I certainly have my unpopular opinions on display with my top 10 (e.g., in addition to "Tears in the Morning", "All I Want To Do" and the album version of "Cotton Fields") and I wasn't expecting much like-mindedness there. As a reminder, I am approaching this as my top ten favorites (i.e. subjectively), so it's all fair game. But, objectively, it's just always surprised me how dismissive Beach Boys fans are regarding "Tears in the Morning". I think it's very high-quality. Now, I have seen positive comments by posters here, I acknowledge that, but it still didn't crack anyone else's top 10. One or two other votes in the 8-10 range and I wouldn't have said anything. By the way, objectively, "Time To Get Alone" and "Add Some Music" would have definitely made my list. But that's not how I'm approaching it. There are just elements of some of those other tracks that I like even more. And there are singalong tunes like "Cotton Fields" that are enjoyable no matter your mood (no matter the artist, for that matter). I do find it interesting how my feeling about certain tracks have changed over time. I really try to be openminded and allow that to happen. Every time we have these sorts of threads, I like to (try to) reevaluate everything. It really pained me not to vote for "Time To Get Alone", as I've always thought highly of it and ranked it higher. Other tracks like "Slip On Through" dropped a bit and could have dropped further. And some of my unpopular opinions are continuing to grow in my estimation. I do think I'm still sort of fighting the consensus...which can be very influential when first getting into the group or even years later as we're continually confronted with it. Some people are less affected. Others are greatly affected, but in the opposite direction (e.g. contrarians). OK, time to stop rambling. EDIT: By the way, Sheriff John Stone, I don't know if you noticed but we both ranked "Forever", "This Whole World", and "Do It Again" top 3 (just in a different order).
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Post by B.E. on Jul 16, 2023 12:39:55 GMT
Updated for KDS' picks:
Thanks for participating. 10 voters cast 100 votes.
Top 10 Songs of 1969-1970
I Can Hear Music (10 votes) This Whole World (10 votes) All I Wanna Do (9 votes) Do It Again (8 votes) Break Away (8 votes) Time To Get Alone (7 votes) Forever (7 votes) Slip On Through (6 votes) Cotton Fields (5 votes) It's About Time (5 votes)
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Post by Kapitan on Jul 16, 2023 12:46:36 GMT
This has to be among the most unanimous results we've had. Two literally unanimous songs, one just shy, and three more just two shy. So two-thirds of voters agreed on about two-thirds of the eventual Top 10.
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