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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jul 11, 2023 16:57:05 GMT
Over the last couple of years - due in large part to some of our threads - I re-evaluated "Deidre", and I now appreciate it a little more. That being said, it might not make my Top 20 on this particular poll.
I was particularly disappointed that Bruce wasn't represented songwriting-wise on That's Why God Made The Radio. I thought he deserved a song on that album and I gladly would've sacrificed "Beaches In Mind" and "The Private Life of...whoever". It's hard to believe Bruce didn't have one great song since Summer In Paradise (or one older tucked away in his vault) that HE would want recorded/heard. Or, maybe he didn't. I certainly didn't want a re-recording of "She Believes In Love Again".
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Post by Kapitan on Jul 12, 2023 15:31:04 GMT
I was particularly disappointed that Bruce wasn't represented songwriting-wise on That's Why God Made The Radio. I thought he deserved a song on that album and I gladly would've sacrificed "Beaches In Mind" and "The Private Life of...whoever". It's hard to believe Bruce didn't have one great song since Summer In Paradise (or one older tucked away in his vault) that HE would want recorded/heard. Or, maybe he didn't. I certainly didn't want a re-recording of "She Believes In Love Again".
I've always wondered about the background to song selection for that album. We know Al pushed for his "Waves of Love," and we know Bruce contributed "She Believes in Love Again" again ... and neither was selected. Bruce indicated prior to the album's release that the label would select the songs: "I took it from a recording we made of it in ’85 and just stripped it down and softened it up and finally got it right,” Johnston says. “I have no idea if it’s going in or not. The label picks the songs, not me.” But is that true? Or did Brian and Mike pick them? (We know from an article at the time--in Rolling Stone?--that Brian seemed resistant to Al's idea of "Waves of Love," even though Al had told the LA Times a few months before the release date that it would be on the album: Maybe they worried if somebody other than Brian and Mike got a song, everybody would get a song, and they just didn't want to do what they perceived as watering it down? Or maybe it was contractual that some percentage of it comprise Brian Wilson compositions--and 11 out of 12 tracks were written or co-written by Wilson, with four co-written or written by Love--and they just didn't feel there was room enough in the remaining spots for them?
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jul 12, 2023 19:08:04 GMT
I was particularly disappointed that Bruce wasn't represented songwriting-wise on That's Why God Made The Radio. I thought he deserved a song on that album and I gladly would've sacrificed "Beaches In Mind" and "The Private Life of...whoever". It's hard to believe Bruce didn't have one great song since Summer In Paradise (or one older tucked away in his vault) that HE would want recorded/heard. Or, maybe he didn't. I certainly didn't want a re-recording of "She Believes In Love Again".
I've always wondered about the background to song selection for that album. We know Al pushed for his "Waves of Love," and we know Bruce contributed "She Believes in Love Again" again ... and neither was selected. Bruce indicated prior to the album's release that the label would select the songs: "I took it from a recording we made of it in ’85 and just stripped it down and softened it up and finally got it right,” Johnston says. “I have no idea if it’s going in or not. The label picks the songs, not me.” But is that true? Or did Brian and Mike pick them? (We know from an article at the time--in Rolling Stone?--that Brian seemed resistant to Al's idea of "Waves of Love," even though Al had told the LA Times a few months before the release date that it would be on the album: Maybe they worried if somebody other than Brian and Mike got a song, everybody would get a song, and they just didn't want to do what they perceived as watering it down? Or maybe it was contractual that some percentage of it comprise Brian Wilson compositions--and 11 out of 12 tracks were written or co-written by Wilson, with four co-written or written by Love--and they just didn't feel there was room enough in the remaining spots for them? My guess is that is was negotiated and written into the contract as to the songwriting percentages. I wouldn't think Brian's team or Mike would care one bit about Bruce and/or Al being represented songwriting-wise and probably didn't "fight" for them. That story about Al advocating for "Waves Of Love" and Brian shrugging him off? I wonder if Brian was too uncomfortable telling Al that there was nothing he could do. We all know about Brian's aversion to confrontation.
I think - with total speculation - that the record company was pushing for a heavily Brian Wilson-represented tracklist. I can also see Mike trying to wedge his way in for a couple of songs, and they threw him a bone. However, subsequently, Mike did say that he was misled and promises weren't kept as far as his working with Brian. Apparently Mike was promised more. Not only do I believe Mike, but I also think that was a major stumbling block for any future reunions. Mike would never let that happen again...and it didn't.
Record companies dictating to The Beach Boys about albums/the finished product is nothing new. That goes way back. How many BB albums were rejected? How many tracklists were altered? I remember reading that the Caribou contract signed in the late 1970s included a clause that demanded so many Brian Wilson-penned and produced songs per album. I'm sure Brian's solo recording career was full of provisions. Didn't Clive Davis mostly determine the tracklist for What I Really Want For Christmas?
Getting back to Bruce. Yeah, it appeared that he was pushing a new version/mix of "She Believes In Love Again". While I like that song, it would've been a mistake to include it on That's Why God Made The Radio, so I approve of the idea being nixed. I'll say again that it's hard to believe Bruce doesn't have any songs stashed away that he would want recorded. Never mind having The Beach Boys record them, he could've shopped them around. I don't think he even did that. If he did I'm sure we would've heard about it.
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Post by Kapitan on Jul 12, 2023 19:25:54 GMT
My guess is that is was negotiated and written into the contract as to the songwriting percentages. ... I think - with total speculation - that the record company was pushing for a heavily Brian Wilson-represented tracklist. ... I'll say again that it's hard to believe Bruce doesn't have any songs stashed away that he would want recorded. Never mind having The Beach Boys record them, he could've shopped them around. I don't think he even did that. If he did I'm sure we would've heard about it. On the first part quoted above, I'm certain you're 100% correct. Not certain as in having proof, but it just seems like an obvious condition of the contract. There's no way that Capitol Records was going to give a (presumably lucrative) deal to the Beach Boys if there were any risk it was going to end up as Summer in Paradise Vol. II. And the Beach Boys being the Beach Boys, no matter what image they presented when they signed the deal, it's not as if it would have been impossible to imagine the situation devolving into that. Besides, isn't the story that Wilson was the first one to go to Capitol, I believe even before talking (at least formally) to Mike Love? As I recall, having the record deal in hand was part of the pitch to Mike. On the second part quoted above, he has reportedly been shopping material. He landed a song (or at least parts of one) on The Weeknd's #2 album Dawn FM in 2022, "Here We Go...Again." I believe around its release, he mentioned that he's always working on other things like that, which he could shop. But I remember him talking that way years ago, and don't seem to recall anything else in recent decades (not just years). It's astounding he doesn't do more. But then again, maybe he just doesn't feel a need to create, and is happier with the life he's got. Despite the busy schedule, it's not as if he's doing the heavy lifting.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jul 12, 2023 19:37:11 GMT
My guess is that is was negotiated and written into the contract as to the songwriting percentages. ... I think - with total speculation - that the record company was pushing for a heavily Brian Wilson-represented tracklist. ... I'll say again that it's hard to believe Bruce doesn't have any songs stashed away that he would want recorded. Never mind having The Beach Boys record them, he could've shopped them around. I don't think he even did that. If he did I'm sure we would've heard about it. On the first part quoted above, I'm certain you're 100% correct. Not certain as in having proof, but it just seems like an obvious condition of the contract. There's no way that Capitol Records was going to give a (presumably lucrative) deal to the Beach Boys if there were any risk it was going to end up as Summer in Paradise Vol. II. And the Beach Boys being the Beach Boys, no matter what image they presented when they signed the deal, it's not as if it would have been impossible to imagine the situation devolving into that. Besides, isn't the story that Wilson was the first one to go to Capitol, I believe even before talking (at least formally) to Mike Love? As I recall, having the record deal in hand was part of the pitch to Mike. On the second part quoted above, he has reportedly been shopping material. He landed a song (or at least parts of one) on The Weeknd's #2 album Dawn FM in 2022, "Here We Go...Again." I believe around its release, he mentioned that he's always working on other things like that, which he could shop. But I remember him talking that way years ago, and don't seem to recall anything else in recent decades (not just years). It's astounding he doesn't do more. But then again, maybe he just doesn't feel a need to create, and is happier with the life he's got. Despite the busy schedule, it's not as if he's doing the heavy lifting. Yes, I remember reading about that, though I never actually listened to the song. I'm wondering if, as you say, it was just "parts" of a song? But that's just one song that we even know about. So, we have "I Write The Songs" recorded by Barry Manilow in 1975 and "Here We Go...Again" recorded by The Weeknd in 2022. That's two songs in 47 years! Does anybody out there know if Bruce Johnston had any other of his songs recorded by anybody outside The Beach Boys' family in the last 47 years? And I'm not referring to cover versions like with "Disney Girls".
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Post by Kapitan on Jul 12, 2023 19:49:36 GMT
Oh, it's for sure, 100%, "just parts" of the song: there are eight credited writers. (Christian Love is another, in addition to The Weeknd, the rapper Tyler the Creator, and four other people.) I'd assume Johnston (and Love) just wrote the main harmony vocal part, maybe the chord changes, and that the others did the rest. In fact, I am pretty sure I recall reading Johnston just turned over his tracks to let The Weeknd do whatever he was going to do with them--it's not like the old days, getting together with instruments and playing and writing together.
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Post by Kapitan on Jul 12, 2023 19:56:50 GMT
So, we have "I Write The Songs" recorded by Barry Manilow in 1975 and "Here We Go...Again" recorded by The Weeknd in 2022. That's two songs in 47 years! Does anybody out there know if Bruce Johnston had any other of his songs recorded by anybody outside The Beach Boys' family in the last 47 years? And I'm not referring to cover versions like with "Disney Girls". He's definitely had others of his songs recorded by people outside the Beach Boys family, but I think only covers of his earlier songs. Mostly the aforementioned "I Write the Songs," with "Disney Girls" probably next most common, but sometimes some of the others. But new music? I don't know of any.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jul 13, 2023 23:15:25 GMT
Bruce Johnston - I Write The Songs
Side 1 1. I Write The Songs (from Going Public) 2. Slow Summer Dancing (One Summer Night) (from Summer In Paradise)
3. Let's Visit Heaven Tonight (Unreleased) 4. The Nearest Faraway Place (from 20/20) 5. Don't Run Away (Single by Bruce & Terry)
Side 2 1. Tears In The Morning (from Sunflower) 2. She Believes In Love Again (from The Beach Boys) 3. Disney Girls (from Surf's Up) 4. Deidre (from Sunflower) 5. Endless Harmony (from Keepin' The Summer Alive)
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Emdeeh
Pacific Coast Highway
Posts: 520
Likes: 532
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Post by Emdeeh on Jul 14, 2023 1:30:40 GMT
My picks, once again in the order they appear in the poll:
Do It Again I Can Hear Music Time to Get Alone Celebrate the News Slip On Through This Whole World Add Some Music to Your Day It's About Time All I Wanna Do Forever
"This Whole World," "Forever," and "I Can Hear Music" are my top 3 picks, in that order. I thought seriously of voting for "Cotton Fields" (single version), but the album version (which feels unfinished) kind of pulls that one down a little for me.
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Post by lonelysummer on Jul 14, 2023 4:39:11 GMT
This thread sure got derailed, and here I am adding to the trainwreck....
It's too bad the final Beach Boys album wasn't more of a collaborative effort. What we got was basically a Brian Wilson/Joe Thomas album, with a little bit of Mike Love. Would it be better as a true group effort? I don't know, but I know I wouldn't have fought against having a Carl Wilson vocal in there somewhere.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jul 14, 2023 11:03:55 GMT
This thread sure got derailed, and here I am adding to the trainwreck.... It's too bad the final Beach Boys album wasn't more of a collaborative effort. What we got was basically a Brian Wilson/Joe Thomas album, with a little bit of Mike Love. Would it be better as a true group effort? I don't know, but I know I wouldn't have fought against having a Carl Wilson vocal in there somewhere. I think it's OK to comment about...something/anything related...than to not comment at all. I mean, I don't think we're in position to...post less.
Regarding a Carl Wilson vocal, how about "Don't Fight The Sea"? It could've been the "Sloop John B", "Full Sail", "Sail Away" or Holland-like song ("Sail On Sailor", "The Trader") on That's Why God Made The Radio.
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Post by Kapitan on Jul 14, 2023 12:39:09 GMT
I agree, some tangents seem fine to me (and sorry, B.E., if you don't like the meandering) as long as they're somewhat on topic, meaning (in this case) the Beach Boys overall. Whatever spurs healthy conversation is good. Personally I would not have wanted "Don't Fight the Sea" on TWGMTR any more than I'd have wanted "She Believes in Love Again," which is to say, at all. I don't love the song, but that's not why. It's that it had already been released in official capacity. To make the final album an odds and ends album is just a shame. This wasn't supposed to be Led Zeppelin's Coda! (I realize that some of these songs were old ... but at least they weren't officially released. I think it should have comprised only songs that were new to the public, which it did [even if some of us knew "Daybreak," for example].)
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Post by The Cincinnati Kid on Jul 14, 2023 14:05:11 GMT
In a perfect world, Al doesn't release his album (sorry, Al), and some of those songs are included in TWGMTR. Then some of the songs that get kicked off of that could be on a Beach Boys NPP. I personally think Don't Fight the Sea is a great song and could have received some legitimate radio play, or at least chart higher than the title track did.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jul 14, 2023 14:19:44 GMT
In a perfect world, Al doesn't release his album (sorry, Al), and some of those songs are included in TWGMTR. Then some of the songs that get kicked off of that could be on a Beach Boys NPP. I personally think Don't Fight the Sea is a great song and could have received some legitimate radio play, or at least chart higher than the title track did. I like "Don't Fight The Sea" a lot, too. I don't want to get carried away, but I think it's one of the best songs that Al's written. To Kapitan's point, it was released prior to That's Why God Made The Radio which would've been a sticking point with me and other diehards to include it on the album. I still would've, though. The Beach Boys have done that in the past, resurrecting previously released songs, so it would not have been something entirely new. Maybe Joe Thomas could've re-recorded it with the then current BB lineup, keeping Carl's part intact of course.
The Cincinnati Kid, as much as I like "Don't Fight The Sea", I'm not sure it would've made the best choice for a single (did Al ever release it or any single from A Postcard From California? Just curious). I always proposed "Spring Vacation" in, um, the spring of 2012 and follow that up with maybe "Isn't It Time" or, yes, "Summer's Gone", a choice which puts me in a small minority.
I do like your thought of putting it on a Beach Boys' No Pier Pressure or even Brian's No Pier Pressure. I can hear it right after "Sail Away".
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Post by The Cincinnati Kid on Jul 14, 2023 14:44:30 GMT
In a perfect world, Al doesn't release his album (sorry, Al), and some of those songs are included in TWGMTR. Then some of the songs that get kicked off of that could be on a Beach Boys NPP. I personally think Don't Fight the Sea is a great song and could have received some legitimate radio play, or at least chart higher than the title track did. I like "Don't Fight The Sea" a lot, too. I don't want to get carried away, but I think it's one of the best songs that Al's written. To Kapitan's point, it was released prior to That's Why God Made The Radio which would've been a sticking point with me and other diehards. However, The Beach Boys have done that in the past, resurrecting previously released songs, so it would not have been something entirely new. Maybe Joe Thomas could've re-recorded it with the then current BB lineup, keeping Carl's part intact of course.
The Cincinnati Kid, as much as I like "Don't Fight The Sea", I'm not sure it would've made the best choice for a single (did Al ever release it or any single from A Postcard From California? Just curious). I always proposed "Spring Vacation" in, um, the spring of 2012 and follow that up with maybe "Isn't It Time" or, yes, "Summer's Gone", a choice which puts me in a small minority. I do like your thought of putting it on a Beach Boys' No Pier Pressure or even Brian's No Pier Pressure, though. I can hear it right after "Sail Away".
I think a shortened version of Don't Fight the Sea was actually a single sort of credited to the Beach Boys for tsunami relief or something. Maybe that doesn't really count. What makes you say it wouldn't be a great single? The song itself is really good, has a driving energy to it, is ocean themed, plus can be marketed as a long lost classic with a vocal from Carl. Just seems like there's a lot to work with to me. As far as what was actually released, I've always agreed with you that Spring Vacation should have been the lead single. When I was talking about putting songs on NPP, I meant songs that were kicked off of TWGMTR. Though that gives me an idea. Take songs from Postcards, TWGMTR, NPP, and UTL and turn it into three Beach Boys albums. I might try that if I have time later.
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