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Post by kds on Jan 25, 2023 14:39:07 GMT
OK, I was taking your "were the early hits too good?" line to mean "were those early hits so good that no matter what they did later, people wouldn't accept them?" And in that case, I'd say no. But if you mean more literally compared to what they really did do after, then yeah, there is definitely some of that. The Beatles DID compete with their early hits as they evolved. Somehow their quality remained REALLY high throughout. The Beach Boys just didn't maintain their peak standard for as long. BUT, as you said and I think most of us agree, the reputation seems to have been that they went from brilliant to awful, as opposed to going from brilliant to sometimes very good, sometimes good, sometimes mediocre, sometimes bad, etc. I actually meant it a little bit both ways. The material from the classic era is really hard to beat. But, I also think you have some fans, and this isn't unique to The Beach Boys as all bands have those "I haven't listened to anything since Album X" fans, who just never really got on board with their "later" (at the time) material. Now, I also think while song wise, the material from the classic era was better, but I think an argument can be made that the albums from 1967-73 were just as, if not more, consistent. Of course, the big outlier is Pet Sounds, as nothing they did before or after comes close.
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 25, 2023 14:44:20 GMT
I mostly agree that they were often as consistent, and sometimes more consistent, "the wilderness years." But when the highs of the mid-60s were what they were, it definitely changes the impression.
I'd say that pre-Pet Sounds, the most consistent albums were the two studio albums of originals that immediately preceded it: Today and SDSN, with All Summer Long nipping at their heels. So that four-album stretch of original studio albums (which means excluding the Christmas album and Party), which spanned just under two years, from July '64 to May '66, were the pinnacle combining quality AND consistency. Both before and after, there were more flaws to be found. Unfortunately, the latter ones, a lot of people just never even heard.
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Post by kds on Jan 25, 2023 15:04:40 GMT
I also think the Smile was an important missing link between the two eras. Without it, you had Smiley Smile, which I can see as a logical jumping off point for fans when it comes to new BB music.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 25, 2023 17:38:30 GMT
Good topic, good conversation. I'd like to chime in if I could. What "happened" with The Beach Boys was not uncommon. In fact, I would go as far as saying it's the rule - not that there aren't exceptions. Almost every successful rock & roll band has a particular sound or style that attracts their fans.The fans will find them. The fans will seek them out. The fans will use them - for that particular sound. But, if and when that band changes that sound, well, good luck. The Beach Boys were/are NOT an exception. Their original fan base wanted those surf & turf, summer fun (and ballads) classics. When the group stopped delivering them, it was bye bye fans. Even Pet Sounds, as different as it was, still held the fans' attention with "Sloop John B", "Wouldn't It Be Nice", and "God Only Knows". So, yeah, the Beach Boys were being used - and they delivered - in providing young, fun, summer, love songs. And they did it better than any of their competitors.
But, it didn't have to end there. It didn't end for The Beatles after Help! and A Hard Day's Night. Or Rubber Soul and Revolver. Why? Because the subsequent albums were just as good or better. Honestly, and I say this as a five-decade diehard, The Beach Boys 1967-1973 albums weren't. To me, it's almost as simple as that. I say almost as simple because The Beach Boys did have a harder road to hoe because they were pigeon-holed with their name and their earlier style music (the surf & turf stuff mainly). I believe that, despite fan's fickle tastes, in the end, good, or probably more accurately, great music will usually win out. Usually. I've been saying for years that Smiley Smile, Wild Honey, and Friends were not THAT good, and my personal rankings reflect that. And, yes, you might even say the same about those early Reprise albums, too. Those albums weren't embraced by the general music public back in the day, and they still aren't today despite efforts by the band and record companies with the boxed sets. Frankly, I don't know if they ever will. But you can't say the same thing about Sgt. Pepper's, The White Album, Abbey Road, and Let It Be.
Yes, a released SMiLE in late 1966/early 1967 would've gone a long way in continuing The Beach Boys' momentum, and helped them accomplish what The Beatles were accomplishing - transitioning and changing their style of music. Brian WAS starting to change and re-imagine the band's sound with Summer Days (And Summer Nights!!) and, obviously, Pet Sounds. But, again, I'm sorry...you weren't going to do that with Smiley Smile, "Gettin' Hungry", Friends and "Friends", and Wild Honey. Yes, it absolutely WAS because the earlier material was so great, but it was also because Brian Wilson got ill, burned out, went another direction, fill in your own reason, and stopped producing great - not very good but great - songs and albums.
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Post by kds on Jan 25, 2023 17:57:33 GMT
I couldn't agree more that it's a general rule with artists to have a certain jumping off / expiration date in the eyes of the public at large. It's just not usually a half decade into their careers.
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 25, 2023 18:04:28 GMT
I couldn't agree more that it's a general rule with artists to have a certain jumping off / expiration date in the eyes of the public at large. It's just not usually a half decade into their careers. Not now, but I wonder if in the '60s especially that's exactly when it was. The business definitely moved much faster then. The acts are releasing multiple albums a year (or at least plenty of singles), trends come and go, and nobody ever seemed to imagine decades-long careers. In jazz, sure. With standards, OK. But not in pop/rock music. Now, five years into your career, that's called "your second record"!
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Post by kds on Jan 25, 2023 18:34:29 GMT
I couldn't agree more that it's a general rule with artists to have a certain jumping off / expiration date in the eyes of the public at large. It's just not usually a half decade into their careers. Not now, but I wonder if in the '60s especially that's exactly when it was. The business definitely moved much faster then. The acts are releasing multiple albums a year (or at least plenty of singles), trends come and go, and nobody ever seemed to imagine decades-long careers. In jazz, sure. With standards, OK. But not in pop/rock music. Now, five years into your career, that's called "your second record"! It was probably more true in the 60s. Several of the British Invasion bands come to mind who couldn't quite keep up with the likes of the Beatles, Stones, etc.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Mar 4, 2023 14:37:07 GMT
Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin discuss Carl & The Passions - "So Tough" and Holland with Goldmine Magazine:
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Post by lonelysummer on Mar 5, 2023 21:28:31 GMT
I beg to differ. Pet Sounds might be the best Beach Boys album; and Smile might have been the best; but my favorite is Sunflower. To my ears, Sunflower is every bit as good as Pet Sounds, Summer Days, Today, and All Summer Long. But it's true that casual fans always have a dropping out or turning off point. How many people followed the Dave Clark 5 after 1966? Paul Revere and the Raiders after 1966? Herman's Hermits after 1967? Kinks fans are always telling me they tuned out after either a) Pete Quaife left in 1969; b) they left Pye/Reprise in 1971; c) they moved to Arista in 1976. And I'm sitting there thinking...I mean I'm sitting there on the group W bench thinking to myself, "but you missed all the good stuff that came after a, b, or c". Sometimes I even say it out loud. Now us die hards, of course, are in the for the long haul. For me, that applies to both the Kinks and the Beach Boys.
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