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Post by The Cincinnati Kid on Sept 2, 2021 12:57:03 GMT
It's never too early to start speculation, right? It could come out as soon as next year, so we might as well. Some comments from Alan Boyd on Beach Boys Talk:
“That’s what we are working on… and the success of this one is really making this all possible, so we’re working on rough cuts and tracklists… so yeah, I want to call it Sail On, Sailor. It’ll be 72, it’ll be… ya know… Carl and the passions session stuff, Holland, and we want to include a complete Carnegie Hall from November 72. And we’ve got two shows, they recorded two shows that night, and they also did two shows… almost identical A couple days earlier in Passaic New Jersey, which in some cases The performances are actually better there, and there’s a batch of those actually on the InConcert album from… I think The first Passaic concert.” “Oh yeah, I mean one thing we want to do particularly with those albums, but particularly with Carl and the passions, is we particularly want to offer a new mix of that entire album… I mean, not to replace the original one but just to have it in there as an extra thing.”
From jiggy on EH: Unreleased material from this era that can see release on this set include:
. Beatrice from Baltimore (though we already kinda have this with the T&BV mix of Mess of Help, as the "she don't know a thing" line is leftover from Beatrice) . Marcella (Alternate Mix) (Quite a few unused overdubs on this one) . A Road Not Taken (Demo) (Early version of "All This is That") . All This is That (Alternate Lyrics Version) (Featuring unused "A Road Not Taken" lyrics buried in the final mix) . Cuddle Up (Alternate Mix) (Incorporating additional elements not found on the album mix) . Out in the Country (Version 1/Version 2) . Body Talk/Grease Job . Spark in the Dark . Rooftop Harry . Ten Years of Harmony (Demo/Backing Track) . I'm Blue (The Gong-Gong Song) (Brief, loose rehearsal captured during the filming of the "Mess of Help" promo film for Old Grey Whistle Test) . Sail On, Sailor (Demo) . Steamboat (Alternate Version) (Featuring Dennis briefly singing an unused line just before the solo) . California Saga (On My Way to Sunny Californ-i-a) (Live version featuring sitar) . The Trader (Demo) (At this point, the song was given the working title of "City Jim") . Mount Vernon and Fairway (Theme)/A Casual Look (Session Excerpt) . Pa, Let Her Go Out (Alternate Version of the "Better Get Back in Bed" fairy tale section) . Better Get Back in Bed (Full version, featuring the verse progression from "Lazy Lizzie") . I'm the Pied Piper (Full version) . Hard Time . Carry Me Home . Little Child (Daddy Dear)/Susie Cincinnati (Rehearsal) In addition, there's a mono transfer of a Blondie/Ricky/Carl rehearsal in Holland featuring a few songs (I've Got Love, Loretta Laredo, and House of Lies), but the tape isn't currently in possession of BRI.
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 2, 2021 13:06:29 GMT
As always, it's the unreleased songs I'm most interested in over any live versions or alternate mixes. Though sometimes alt mixes can really make you rethink things: the new Soulful Old Man Sunshine, for example. And I have to say, hearing new mixes of both of those studio albums is appealing to me, as they both have always sounded a little muddy to me. (And Alan B said why in terms of CATP on his appearance on Beach Boys Talk.)
One thing I was thinking about yesterday: the Flame had a fully complete second album that was never released. (Or am I making that up?) I'd love to see it released somehow as a part of all these projects. It must have been right around 1971-72ish and I'm assuming it would have been on Brother, in that their (U.S.) debut was on Brother, produced by Carl, and both Ricky and Blondie were in the band through that time. I wonder whether any of the BBs were on that second album, or involved in any way.
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Post by The Cincinnati Kid on Sept 2, 2021 13:19:13 GMT
As always, it's the unreleased songs I'm most interested in over any live versions or alternate mixes. Though sometimes alt mixes can really make you rethink things: the new Soulful Old Man Sunshine, for example. And I have to say, hearing new mixes of both of those studio albums is appealing to me, as they both have always sounded a little muddy to me. (And Alan B said why in terms of CATP on his appearance on Beach Boys Talk.) One thing I was thinking about yesterday: the Flame had a fully complete second album that was never released. (Or am I making that up?) I'd love to see it released somehow as a part of all these projects. It must have been right around 1971-72ish and I'm assuming it would have been on Brother, in that their (U.S.) debut was on Brother, produced by Carl, and both Ricky and Blondie were in the band through that time. I wonder whether any of the BBs were on that second album, or involved in any way.
I think Alan talked a bit about the Flame album on BB Talk. He really wants it released, but it sounds like there's a lot of red tape to get through.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Sept 2, 2021 13:21:00 GMT
Looking forward to it!
I'm still curious how they would (will?) handle the Caribou sessions, if at all. I think they fit in more with CATP and Holland than 15 Big Ones/Love You. Ricky Fataar was still with the band up to 1975. They could even include the "Wishing You Were Here" sessions.
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 2, 2021 13:41:02 GMT
I'm still curious how they would (will?) handle the Caribou sessions, if at all. I think they fit in more with CATP and Holland than 15 Big Ones/Love You. Ricky Fataar was still with the band up to 1975. They could even include the "Wishing You Were Here" sessions. It's true they probably aesthetically fit more with the early '70s band, but they also have several more years before they have to do anything, copyright-wise. So it depends on business as well as artistic considerations, for sure.
I'd think including something like "Wishing You Were Here" would be a whole other set of legal complications since they're by another band on another label (Columbia).
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Sept 2, 2021 14:21:28 GMT
I'm still curious how they would (will?) handle the Caribou sessions, if at all. I think they fit in more with CATP and Holland than 15 Big Ones/Love You. Ricky Fataar was still with the band up to 1975. They could even include the "Wishing You Were Here" sessions. It's true they probably aesthetically fit more with the early '70s band, but they also have several more years before they have to do anything, copyright-wise. So it depends on business as well as artistic considerations, for sure.
I'd think including something like "Wishing You Were Here" would be a whole other set of legal complications since they're by another band on another label (Columbia).
Well, they don't have to wait 'til the last minute - copyrightwise - to release archival material, though they seem to do that.
As far as the "Wishing You Were Here" sessions/vocals, I wonder if James Guercio could assist with that?
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 2, 2021 15:20:29 GMT
I'd imagine the issue would be compensating Columbia or whoever owns those tapes now, so I don't know that a friend in common would be the issue: it's not like they would need help convincing somebody it would be cool, but rather settling on compensation. (That's a guess, I don't KNOW anything about it. I'm speculating how it would go.)
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Sept 2, 2021 23:13:00 GMT
As always, it's the unreleased songs I'm most interested in over any live versions or alternate mixes. Though sometimes alt mixes can really make you rethink things: the new Soulful Old Man Sunshine, for example. And I have to say, hearing new mixes of both of those studio albums is appealing to me, as they both have always sounded a little muddy to me. (And Alan B said why in terms of CATP on his appearance on Beach Boys Talk.) One thing I was thinking about yesterday: the Flame had a fully complete second album that was never released. (Or am I making that up?) I'd love to see it released somehow as a part of all these projects. It must have been right around 1971-72ish and I'm assuming it would have been on Brother, in that their (U.S.) debut was on Brother, produced by Carl, and both Ricky and Blondie were in the band through that time. I wonder whether any of the BBs were on that second album, or involved in any way.
I think Alan talked a bit about the Flame album on BB Talk. He really wants it released, but it sounds like there's a lot of red tape to get through. No offense to Blondie and Ricky - or Carl Wilson - but I have no interest in a Flame release. I don't really care for their Beach Boys' songs, and Flame music would be mostly more of the same.
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 2, 2021 23:16:55 GMT
I used to feel that way, and I still don't prefer the Flame (or Ricky and Blondie as Beach Boys) to peak Brian-Mike-Al-Carl-Dennis-Bruce Beach Boys. (That sextet is the lineup I think really was the greatest in the studio at their peak, and in the studio is what I like best.)
But I've come to enjoy their contributions to the Beach Boys over the years, and when I revisited the Flame's debut album earlier this year or late last year, I was astounded how much better it had become since I'd last heard it. Magical little elves must've tinkered while I was away!
So anyway, I would love to hear that second album, and anything they were working on with the Boys during the CATP/Holland era. Though just to be clear, I don't mean they should cut Beach Boys music from a package to make room for the Flame's album, even if they could work out the legalities and such. But if it's a "yes, and" situation? Or if they can do it separately? YES.
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Post by bellesofparisstan on Nov 12, 2021 3:37:35 GMT
Looking forward to it!
I'm still curious how they would (will?) handle the Caribou sessions, if at all. I think they fit in more with CATP and Holland than 15 Big Ones/Love You. Ricky Fataar was still with the band up to 1975. They could even include the "Wishing You Were Here" sessions.
You can already hear pretty much everything recorded at Caribou in fall 74that still exists. It’s OK backing track, battle hymn of the Republic, rollin up to heaven, good timin, Child of winter. The only thing that you can’t hear from those sessions is honeycomb
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Post by lonelysummer on Nov 12, 2021 5:41:40 GMT
Looking forward to it!
I'm still curious how they would (will?) handle the Caribou sessions, if at all. I think they fit in more with CATP and Holland than 15 Big Ones/Love You. Ricky Fataar was still with the band up to 1975. They could even include the "Wishing You Were Here" sessions.
I would prefer they keep the focus for this set on CATP/Holland/In Concert. The Flame stuff is okay, but no way does it belong on a Beach Boys set. I wasn't against including some solo Dennis on Feel Flows, but that's a little different. Dennis was a core Beach Boy for over 20 years. If they come up with some killer Carl or Al stuff for future sets, sure, mix it in. I don't really think of Blondie and Ricky as core Beach Boys. When I see the name Blondie, I think of a band fronted by Deborah Harry.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Nov 12, 2021 12:12:52 GMT
Looking forward to it!
I'm still curious how they would (will?) handle the Caribou sessions, if at all. I think they fit in more with CATP and Holland than 15 Big Ones/Love You. Ricky Fataar was still with the band up to 1975. They could even include the "Wishing You Were Here" sessions.
You can already hear pretty much everything recorded at Caribou in fall 74that still exists. It’s OK backing track, battle hymn of the Republic, rollin up to heaven, good timin, Child of winter. The only thing that you can’t hear from those sessions is honeycomb Granted, I don't have an in depth knowledge of the Caribou sessions. So, the only tracks recorded at Caribou Ranch are:
1. It's OK (backing track) 2. Battle Hymn Of The Republic 3. Rollin' Up To Heaven 4. Good Timin' (backing track only?) 5. Child Of Winter 6. Honeycomb
That's it? Any Dennis Wilson stuff?
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Post by jk on Nov 12, 2021 12:38:24 GMT
You can already hear pretty much everything recorded at Caribou in fall 74that still exists. It’s OK backing track, battle hymn of the Republic, rollin up to heaven, good timin, Child of winter. The only thing that you can’t hear from those sessions is honeycomb Granted, I don't have an in depth knowledge of the Caribou sessions. So, the only tracks recorded at Caribou Ranch are:
1. It's OK (backing track) 2. Battle Hymn Of The Republic 3. Rollin' Up To Heaven 4. Good Timin' (backing track only?) 5. Child Of Winter 6. Honeycomb
That's it? Any Dennis Wilson stuff?
According to c-man (Craig S) at Smiley in November 2017, "None of the POB album was recorded at the Ranch...the album jacket was likely on display there because the Caribou label released the record. However, some work on 'Wild Situation' for DW's next album Bambu was indeed done at the Ranch." It's anything but clear whether the stunning early (BB) version of "River Song" was recorded there...
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Post by bellesofparisstan on Nov 12, 2021 15:42:02 GMT
You can already hear pretty much everything recorded at Caribou in fall 74that still exists. It’s OK backing track, battle hymn of the Republic, rollin up to heaven, good timin, Child of winter. The only thing that you can’t hear from those sessions is honeycomb Granted, I don't have an in depth knowledge of the Caribou sessions. So, the only tracks recorded at Caribou Ranch are:
1. It's OK (backing track) 2. Battle Hymn Of The Republic 3. Rollin' Up To Heaven 4. Good Timin' (backing track only?) 5. Child Of Winter 6. Honeycomb
That's it? Any Dennis Wilson stuff?
Good Timin actually began work in April 1974 at Brother Studios. So just going off of that, the only thing that I assume they recorded at Caribou for that song was the half finished Vocal
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Post by bellesofparisstan on Nov 12, 2021 15:48:44 GMT
Granted, I don't have an in depth knowledge of the Caribou sessions. So, the only tracks recorded at Caribou Ranch are:
1. It's OK (backing track) 2. Battle Hymn Of The Republic 3. Rollin' Up To Heaven 4. Good Timin' (backing track only?) 5. Child Of Winter 6. Honeycomb
That's it? Any Dennis Wilson stuff?
According to c-man (Craig S) at Smiley in November 2017, "None of the POB album was recorded at the Ranch...the album jacket was likely on display there because the Caribou label released the record. However, some work on 'Wild Situation' for DW's next album Bambu was indeed done at the Ranch." It's anything but clear whether the stunning early (BB) version of "River Song" was recorded there... It was not. I believe that entire song was recorded at brother studio. “ Recorded on 2" 16-track analog tape, likely followed by tape-to-tape transfer to second-generation 2" 24-track analog tape Recorded at Brother Studio, Santa Monica, CA, circa late 1973/early 1974 Engineer: Stephen Moffitt Tape transfer made & final lead vocal recorded at Brother Studio, Santa Monica, CA, circa second week of March 1976 Engineers: Earle Mankey and John Hanlon Strings recorded at Brother Studio, Santa Monica, CA, Wednesday July 7, 1976, 10:00pm-11:00pm Choir and lead vocal in bridge recorded at Brother Studio, Santa Monica, CA, circa Saturday July 10, 1976 Engineers: Stephen Moffitt, Earle Mankey, and John Hanlon MIX PRODUCED BY STEPHEN MOFFITT Mixed to 1/4" stereo analog tape Mixed at Brother Studio, Santa Monica, CA, Tuesday March 22, 1977 Engineer: Stephen Moffitt” Source: www.beachboysarchives.com/mobilepage.php?pagenumber=11
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