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Post by Kapitan on Dec 10, 2022 13:32:30 GMT
A few new reviews for Sail On Sailor.
American Songwriter (3.5/5 stars)
Analog Planet (no ratings given, but positive)
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 11, 2022 12:12:57 GMT
A review from Spin (no rating, but positive):
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 12, 2022 12:27:06 GMT
Ultimate Class Rock has named Sail On Sailor the year's 6th best reissue. The top five were:
5. The Rolling Stones, Live at the El Mocambo. 4. Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers, Live at the Fillmore, 1997. 3. David Bowie, Divine Symmetry: the Journey to Hunky Dory. 2. Blondie, Against the Odds, 1974-1982. 1. The Beatles, Revolver: Special Edition.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Dec 12, 2022 12:50:32 GMT
Keeping in mind the Sail On, Sailor boxed set has only been out for a week - and maybe not totally explored/examined - using notes and ears , which Carl & The Passions and Holland songs does Brian Wilson:
A) Sing on B) Play an instrument on
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 12, 2022 16:59:43 GMT
OK, two critical points...
I'm no musician, but on the Carnegie Hall "Heroes And Villains", is Al very off-key on the "I've been in this town so long..." part?
And, on the "California Saga (California)" - 1973 Single Mix, at the 3 second mark, I hear a click. Is that intentional? Are they trying to bring out some instrument that was buried in the original mix, though I don't know why they would. It's very distracting. I can't stop hearing it - and I want to focus entirely on Brian's rare vocal. Al is definitely sketchy, pitch-wise, on that version. More often flat than sharp, but kind of all over the map. Could be the lack of really good monitor systems in those days making it hard to really hear accurately. (That's why I said elsewhere, I think in this thread, how much I'd have loved to hear that particular band with modern sound systems. I think it would have been that much better.) Or it could just be that he was tired and straining a bit.
I hadn't noticed that click in "California" before, but I'll never unhear it now. (Like the squeaky kick drum pedal in Zeppelin's "Since I've Been Lovin' You," which once I read Jimmy Page mentioning, I've heard like the beating of the telltale heart or something.) I can't imagine it was intentional: it's not on an obvious beat, it doesn't seem to repeat in rhythm, etc.
However, it doesn't seem new to this set, either. Here is the single version uploaded 10 years ago to YouTube, and it has it, too.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Dec 12, 2022 23:29:06 GMT
Good work, Kapitan, regarding the single version of "California Saga (California)" I never thought of checking a previously released CD version, maybe from one of those Best Of comps. The last time I listened to the single version was probably the vinyl Ten Years Of Harmony, many years ago. And with vinyl, I wouldn't have known if it was in the actual recording or some snap, crackle, and pop. But it does raise the question - why was that click there in the first place, and I wonder if they ever considered eliminating it on future recordings, including this boxed set? Probably not.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Dec 13, 2022 11:07:06 GMT
An interview with Mike, Al, and Blondie about Sail On, Sailor and other things:
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 13, 2022 12:29:12 GMT
Mike forgot to mention "Kokomo!" Luckily, he did get in some talk about cowriting with Brian; India/Maharishi/McCartney/Back In the USSR; and Dennis's destructive lifestyle.
Seriously, I was hoping there would be more articles and interviews along these lines corresponding with the release. Even if they would mostly end up with rehashes of the same anecdotes, there's usually some cool tidbit or other.
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 13, 2022 13:24:44 GMT
Keeping in mind the Sail On, Sailor boxed set has only been out for a week - and maybe not totally explored/examined - using notes and ears , which Carl & The Passions and Holland songs does Brian Wilson:
A) Sing on B) Play an instrument on
I think for B), that's going to be really tough to determine without credits. Unfortunately neither the new box nor Craig S (as far as I know) has listed them for these albums.
Personally I haven't gone through to really think about it carefully. But obviously, the answer is "not many."
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Emdeeh
Pacific Coast Highway
Posts: 520
Likes: 532
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Post by Emdeeh on Dec 13, 2022 14:16:48 GMT
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Post by lonelysummer on Dec 14, 2022 3:18:59 GMT
Yes, his piano playing was also basic. No one would mistake him for a virtuoso.
I think it's important to keep in mind, none of this is an insult! The guy had no training, not a lot of technique, no real theory. He--as is the case with the overwhelming majority (I'd bet) of rock musicians--made do. Obviously he did just fine for himself. None of this is to say I don't like Dennis's drumming. It's just stating reality It's like asking whether B.B. King was technically a better guitarist than Steve Vai, or Andres Segovia. The answer is clearly "no." But do I like B.B. King? Yes! Was he great (at what he did)? Yes! But he was limited in what he could do by his level of technique. So was Dennis.
Ringo has nothing to do with this, really, other than I guess fitting into that second paragraph above in his own way. But I'd put Ringo well above Dennis as a drummer.
I still have so much to learn. I thought Daryl Dragon and others had praised Dennis' composing abilities on piano. I thought he was known for creating very complex melodic stuff on piano. I would think to do that, you have to know your way around a piano very well. For some, being a good musician is all about being technically proficient, being able to rattle off a flurry of notes in a matter of seconds. I personally prefer someone with the taste and discipline to know what NOT to play. B. B. King may not have played fast, but there was so much heart and soul in it. I liked the way Dennis' drumming drove the live band; and when he was gone, it was never quite the same.
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 14, 2022 12:20:17 GMT
Daryl Dragon did praise Dennis's composing ability (which had been done on piano), but I don't see that as the same as being a good keyboard player at all. (I don't know about anything he wrote being "complex" melodically or otherwise--in fact I don't think anything released in his life was complex, even for rock/pop--but actually along the lines of what you're saying about your own taste, complex isn't required for being good.)
I think you hit the nail on the head with your post, but I just would highlight the distinction: technical expertise isn't as necessary to be a good musician as is basic competence plus creativity plus taste, and so yes, Dennis was a good musician; but I would say more technical expertise is necessary to be considered a good instrumentalist, and Dennis wasn't especially good in that respect.
But I want to emphasize again, that's not a knock. Many, or most, rock musicians aren't particularly good instrumentalists or singers. That's why studio musicians often sat and sit in or them on recordings. It's "can you nail it the first time, or are we going to be here all day?" or "if the parts are challenging, or we change something on the fly, can you handle that, or are we going to be sitting on our hands while you try to figure it out?" or "do you have one thing you can do, or can you do more or less whatever we need?"
Thinking along those lines, Ricky Fataar was just at another level than Dennis. Dennis was great for a lot of what the group did. Ricky was just better.
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Post by lonelysummer on Dec 15, 2022 6:47:31 GMT
Daryl Dragon did praise Dennis's composing ability (which had been done on piano), but I don't see that as the same as being a good keyboard player at all. (I don't know about anything he wrote being "complex" melodically or otherwise--in fact I don't think anything released in his life was complex, even for rock/pop--but actually along the lines of what you're saying about your own taste, complex isn't required for being good.)
I think you hit the nail on the head with your post, but I just would highlight the distinction: technical expertise isn't as necessary to be a good musician as is basic competence plus creativity plus taste, and so yes, Dennis was a good musician; but I would say more technical expertise is necessary to be considered a good instrumentalist, and Dennis wasn't especially good in that respect.
But I want to emphasize again, that's not a knock. Many, or most, rock musicians aren't particularly good instrumentalists or singers. That's why studio musicians often sat and sit in or them on recordings. It's "can you nail it the first time, or are we going to be here all day?" or "if the parts are challenging, or we change something on the fly, can you handle that, or are we going to be sitting on our hands while you try to figure it out?" or "do you have one thing you can do, or can you do more or less whatever we need?"
Thinking along those lines, Ricky Fataar was just at another level than Dennis. Dennis was great for a lot of what the group did. Ricky was just better.
I must admit I haven't studied Ricky's drumming as I have Dennis'. Maybe if I had some good video footage of the 72-74 Beach Boys. So who would you say was the best instrumentalist in the Beach Boys? Ricky? Blondie? Carl? Brian?
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 15, 2022 13:46:24 GMT
So who would you say was the best instrumentalist in the Beach Boys? Ricky? Blondie? Carl? Brian? I think it's tough to say because the Beach Boys' music didn't really give them much chance to showcase instrumental technique. But Bruce, Ricky, Blondie, and Carl all were more than capable handling what they were called on to do, and while a lot of Brian's playing is pretty simple, every so often he does something surprisingly nimble, too. David got some serious training after leaving the group, but I haven't listened to enough of his non-Beach Boys music to say an impression there.
For what they did, I'd say they were all competent. (Obviously, since we hear the great results.)
The easier question is, who was the worst instrumentalist?
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Dec 15, 2022 13:58:57 GMT
So who would you say was the best instrumentalist in the Beach Boys? Ricky? Blondie? Carl? Brian? I think it's tough to say because the Beach Boys' music didn't really give them much chance to showcase instrumental technique. But Bruce, Ricky, Blondie, and Carl all were more than capable handling what they were called on to do, and while a lot of Brian's playing is pretty simple, every so often he does something surprisingly nimble, too. David got some serious training after leaving the group, but I haven't listened to enough of his non-Beach Boys music to say an impression there.
For what they did, I'd say they were all competent. (Obviously, since we hear the great results.)
The easier question is, who was the worst instrumentalist? Interesting topic! Who was the BEST instrumentalist in The Beach Boys? I'll go with:
1. Ricky Fataar 2. Blondie Chaplin 3. David Marks
4. Bruce Johnston 5. Carl Wilson 6. Brian Wilson 7. Al Jardine 8. Dennis Wilson 9. Mike Love
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