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Post by lonelysummer on Dec 16, 2022 7:01:52 GMT
I think it's tough to say because the Beach Boys' music didn't really give them much chance to showcase instrumental technique. But Bruce, Ricky, Blondie, and Carl all were more than capable handling what they were called on to do, and while a lot of Brian's playing is pretty simple, every so often he does something surprisingly nimble, too. David got some serious training after leaving the group, but I haven't listened to enough of his non-Beach Boys music to say an impression there.
For what they did, I'd say they were all competent. (Obviously, since we hear the great results.)
The easier question is, who was the worst instrumentalist? Interesting topic! Who was the BEST instrumentalist in The Beach Boys? I'll go with:
1. Ricky Fataar 2. Blondie Chaplin 3. David Marks
4. Bruce Johnston 5. Carl Wilson 6. Brian Wilson 7. Al Jardine 8. Dennis Wilson 9. Mike Love
It's sad that Bruce longer displays his chops on the piano. I've seen a couple of old clips that show he knew he was very good instrumentally, yet the image I have of him, because of the last 30 or 40 years, is a guy that touches his keyboard during a performance - off and on - but I can't hear it. Surprised to see Blondie, Ricky and David all score higher than the Wilson brothers. Again, when I am listening to the 72-74 band, I'm not thinking about who is playing what, and there is precious little video footage from that era. But I will have to look them up and study them. BTW, I'm really enjoying We Got Love on SOS. I actually like it better than some of the other Ricky/Blondie songs.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Dec 16, 2022 12:48:07 GMT
Interesting topic! Who was the BEST instrumentalist in The Beach Boys? I'll go with:
1. Ricky Fataar 2. Blondie Chaplin 3. David Marks
4. Bruce Johnston 5. Carl Wilson 6. Brian Wilson 7. Al Jardine 8. Dennis Wilson 9. Mike Love
It's sad that Bruce longer displays his chops on the piano. I've seen a couple of old clips that show he knew he was very good instrumentally, yet the image I have of him, because of the last 30 or 40 years, is a guy that touches his keyboard during a performance - off and on - but I can't hear it. Surprised to see Blondie, Ricky and David all score higher than the Wilson brothers. Again, when I am listening to the 72-74 band, I'm not thinking about who is playing what, and there is precious little video footage from that era. But I will have to look them up and study them. BTW, I'm really enjoying We Got Love on SOS. I actually like it better than some of the other Ricky/Blondie songs. That's because it is superior to some of the other Ricky/Blondie songs.
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 16, 2022 12:59:59 GMT
Agreed. (I like Hard Times even more, but that might take the cake as the least Beach Boys-sounding song released, had it been released.)
Regarding lonelysummer's surprise at these instrumental rankings, it's worth noting if we were ranking them as songwriters, there is a good chance all three Wilsons would top all of the guys who topped them instrumentally. It's all debatable, of course, and a matter of taste to some degree, but my point is just this: music has so many facets to consider, enjoy, experience, or engage in!
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Post by kds on Dec 16, 2022 20:15:39 GMT
I'd definitely agree, purely as instrumentalists, Blondie and Ricky were probably the best, which is why I think that short lived era is the best in BB history, strictly from a musicianship point of view.
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 17, 2022 13:16:34 GMT
A new review from the Village Soup website servicing Knox and Waldo counties, Maine, publishing from a number of presumably small local papers there. They give the set an A-.
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 18, 2022 12:32:57 GMT
Here is another new review, this from Joel Goldenberg for Canadian publication The Suburban.
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Post by bellesofparisstan on Jan 12, 2023 18:04:33 GMT
He may be fond of Holland, but he wasn't especially involved in it. And as I said, if he were to be interviewed about the era, it seems to me it would end up being about how times weren't very good for him at that time.
As for CATP, I'll only grant that I don't know other than what I've read and what I hear. He's credited with co-producing "Mess of Help," but none of the others. Obviously credits aren't the same thing as objective reality, but they are what they are. Sometimes they change after the fact, maybe they'll change with this release. I'd also bet Dragon had more to do with arranging Dennis's orchestral parts than did Brian. And my ears say there's not all that much Brian. And what I've read says there wasn't much Brian.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I am not convinced you're right.
back to this conversation, the actual group just posted an entire “Sail On Sailor 1972” Sessionography to their official website. thebeachboys.com/sail-on-sailor-sessionography/And Brian has credits all over CATP.
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 12, 2023 18:40:36 GMT
Fascinating. I'm really glad to see these credits. Thanks for posting that link.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 13, 2023 11:51:38 GMT
If I'm reading the sessionography correctly, Brian Wilson's contributions to Holland were:
- Co-composer of "Sail On, Sailor" - Backing vocals on "The Trader" - Intro vocal on "California Saga: California" - Co-composer, co-producer, track, and backing vocals on "Funky Pretty" - Co-composer, co-producer, track, backing vocals, and voice of The Pied Piper on "Mount Vernon And Fairway"
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 13, 2023 12:42:59 GMT
I was thinking as I reviewed them that they don't really change my impression about Brian's relative involvement. Totally absent? No, but what I'd initially said was that he "wasn't especially involved in it." I'm sticking to that, I think. And I think the same goes for CATP.
I will grant that this can just be a matter of how a person interprets things like "wasn't especially involved." But for me, when we're talking about the guy who had been the guy in terms of writing, producing, and a major instrumentalist and singer, this level of contribution is pretty minimal.
Most likely, if workload (meaning real work ... you know, the nonsense they pay me for) allows it today, I will put together a little comparison of everyone's contributions so we can see it objectively all in an organized way.
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Post by The Cincinnati Kid on Jan 13, 2023 13:12:31 GMT
Does this mean that the "heyyyy eyyyy Marcella" that was brought out prominently in the backing vocals isn't actually Brian?
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 13, 2023 13:55:52 GMT
Does this mean that the "heyyyy eyyyy Marcella" that was brought out prominently in the backing vocals isn't actually Brian? The vocal credits for Marcella read: VOCALS Verse lead vocal – Carl Wilson Verse backing vocals – Carl Wilson, Bruce Johnston Chorus vocals – Alan Jardine, Carl Wilson, Dennis Wilson, Mike Love Tag lead vocal – Mike Love Tag backing vocals – Alan Jardine, Mike Love, Carl Wilson, Jack Rieley, Brian Wilson However, I wouldn't say it definitively means anything. That part sure sounded to me like Brian when I listened when that version was released. (Of course, I certainly wouldn't put my ears up for any awards, either...) We have learned that session sheets aren't always accurate, and then we're dealing with subjective listeners. However, I'd also note that joshilynhoisington is listed along with Craig Slowinski, Will Crerar, and John Brode as having been the compilers of this sessionography. Perhaps she'd be willing to comment?
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Post by kds on Jan 13, 2023 16:37:36 GMT
I would've sworn that was Brian too. Although, Al did have a way of sounding very Brian-ish at times, so maybe that was him?
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 13, 2023 16:56:25 GMT
I would've sworn that was Brian too. Although, Al did have a way of sounding very Brian-ish at times, so maybe that was him? One thing about the Beach Boys that never ceases to amaze me is how often members sounded very much alike. Brian, Carl and Al. Al and Mike. Bruce and Al or Brian. Not always, but sometimes.
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Post by bellesofparisstan on Jan 13, 2023 17:18:49 GMT
Rock Cellar: When working with the creative team putting this project together, while listening to session tapes what were the mind blowing, “holy shit” moments for you? Howie Edelson: My personal “holy shit” moment was from something that actually didn’t make the box. It was the uncut session tape for “He Come Down” and hearing Brian Wilson on piano leading a small ensemble — bass, drums, and light guitar — through several takes and breakdowns of the tune. Hearing him as a musician and record maker just killed me, absolutely blew my mind. rockcellarmagazine.com/howie-edelson-interview-beach-boys-sail-on-sailor-mike-love/
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