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Post by B.E. on Aug 4, 2023 1:46:03 GMT
[Written before reading SJS’ most recent post.]
The Beach Boys had ample time and opportunity to release a proper studio album based on the Paley material; ultimately, they decided to prioritize S&S. There’s just no way around that. They chose one over the other for their next project. Is it possible that there was a genuine hope among some members that that would lead to a proper group album of new material? Sure. But isn’t it also possible that they were aware by this time that Carl was sick? The announcement of his diagnosis was only about 6 months later. And no work on that potential follow-up album had taken place. If S&S was really just a warm-up album, that was clearly misguided and ill-advised. Perhaps, looking back at those precedents, they should have noticed that they didn’t turn out as planned. Yes, Brian delivered with Pet Sounds but what happened after that? After 15 Big Ones, yes, you got original material, but it was essentially an uncommercial solo album then back to the drawing board. By this stage in the game, especially after being apart so long, they should have taken advantage of the opportunity while they had it. And it’s not like we’re talking about a narrow window of time here. But I think the simple answer is that not everyone really wanted it. It was easier to do S&S (or nothing at all, recording-wise), so that’s what they did.
I also don’t see how Brian temporarily moving to Chicago after Carl’s diagnosis upended any potential follow-up. Wasn’t much of S&S recorded in Chicago? They could have done the same thing with the next album, too. It’s all a moot point, though, or does anyone think that Brian would have been interested in a Beach Boys album without Carl?
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Post by B.E. on Aug 4, 2023 2:30:06 GMT
Also, I just wanted to mention that on AGD’s site there are S&S session dates in October 1995 before the Don Was sessions the following month. So, it would appear that both ideas were alive for a time…until one won out. Is there any evidence that the group considered revisiting the Paley material after Carl’s objection and the release of S&S? Kapitan , I think the O’Hagen situation occurred after S&S, later that year. If so, at least Bruce would have apparently been interested in a new album with Brian heavily involved, but I assume that had pretty much always been the case. In skimming that blog post, I didn’t see any reference to the Paley material, though.
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Post by lonelysummer on Aug 4, 2023 5:52:57 GMT
A slightly different viewpoint: I don't think there was ANY momentum on the Beach Boys' side in 1995. Sure, they were still touring and playing to big crowds, but their last studio album was a major flop. They had failed to follow up the major success of Kokomo in 1988/89 with a new album. Instead, we got another comp, which somehow managed to go gold, despite charting no higher than 40-something. That was the time to come out with a great new album, something at least as strong as BB85. I do like the new songs on Still Cruisin', but how many times do I have to buy California Girls, Wouldn't it Be Nice and I Get Around? They blew it. By 1992, Kokomo itself was an oldie, and nobody cared about new songs from the Beach Boys. Brian was the one with momentum on his side: a well received new film about him from Don Was, plus accompanying soundtrack album; an album with Van Dyke Parks. Brian was the one the rock critics were still writing respectfully about. The Beach Boys were just beach balls, hot dogs, and bikinis. The box set? That was celebrating their past. There were like 3 or 4 songs representing the 80's Beach Boys. Further proof that the group had lost the plot. S&S is what it is: a footnote in the long career of a once great group.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 4, 2023 10:45:58 GMT
Momentum might not be the best word, because it wasn't so much good things happening (that could snowball). I'll grant that. Rather, it was more alignment of the stars? An obvious path forward? - Demonstrated failures and widespread mockery of the Love-led studio efforts - Lawsuits largely resolved - Some good vibes (sorry) around the Beach Boys after the box and subsequent tour - Brian Wilson "freed" from Landy - Brian Wilson working again, with a large cache of new songs ready to record and/or demo'd - Brian Wilson and Mike Love agreeing to write together - Internal interest in the Beach Boys making music, including from Brian Wilson - External (label) interest in the Beach Boys releasing a new album So whether that's momentum or an assortment of positive signs or some other term, there was a very clear path for the Beach Boys to record a new album. Instead they recorded background vocals on a country tribute album. If AGD's site (per B.E. 's post) is correct over Carlin's book and that blog post, so be it. I think the above still would all stand, if in a slightly less strong position. The group rejected the opportunity to be the real Beach Boys, i.e., the group with Brian Wilson, again. If I'm remembering correctly, shortly after this, they also a) quibbled over the Pet Sounds box set as being "too Brian-focused," and then rejected the opportunity to tour the album in full, which would have been groundbreaking, out of fears of Brian's abilities. Where we could have had a real reunion, not just a one-off, but the start to another 15 or 20 years of the Beach Boys, we had Stars & Stripes and a return to the status quo--and then the full solo career of Brian Wilson. It should have, and could have, been the Beach Boys. There could have been another handful of studio albums. There could have been far more lucrative tours. There could have been a respectable coda to their fabulous career. We got a country tribute album on which they sang background vocals. “But life isn't written to have a happy ending — some things just suck." - Wolfgang Van Halen
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Post by kds on Aug 4, 2023 14:24:31 GMT
In any case, thank God for That's Why God Made the Radio for providing an infinitely better (IMO) studio swansong than a Country tribute album.
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Post by B.E. on Aug 4, 2023 22:39:50 GMT
If AGD's site (per B.E. 's post) is correct over Carlin's book and that blog post, so be it. I think the above still would all stand, if in a slightly less strong position. I tried to find a definitive date but couldn't. I don't think the information on AGD's site contradicts the blog post, though. Some of the quotes by both Bruce and Sean seem to indicate it took place later. Either way, though, I largely agree with your positions; they certainly still stand. The time period is pretty murky in many respects.
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Post by B.E. on Aug 5, 2023 14:20:22 GMT
See, for me "Shelter," at least, is a no-brainer. That's one of the five best songs on this list, imo (though I'm saying that without looking at the tunes). I'm positive I like it more than anything on either SIP or the country covers nonsense. I like the chorus on Shelter, but overall, it's not a favorite of mine on TWGMTR. That said, I really don't think any song on that album to be particularly weak. I like "Shelter", but I'm not too keen on Jeff's performance on the chorus. And that's a long chorus. The song is very good, I just wish they'd approached that differently (by incorporating a Beach Boy). I agree about there not being a weak track on the album, though. It's more consistent than I had remembered. Little quibbles here and there aside, I do enjoy each and every track.
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Post by B.E. on Aug 5, 2023 14:33:49 GMT
My ranking:
1. Soul Searchin' 2. Summer's Gone 3. Pacific Coast Highway 4. Isn't It Time 5. From There To Back Again 6. Think About the Days 7. That's Why God Made The Radio 8. Strange World 9. You're Still A Mystery 10. Daybreak Over the Ocean
Honorable mention to "The Private Life of Bill and Sue". I expected to include it, and it doesn't feel right that I haven't!
Nothing from Summer in Paradise or Stars and Stripes.
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Post by B.E. on Aug 5, 2023 14:38:15 GMT
I'll have to think about this a little bit as I rate SiP a little higher than most. I also haven't listened to most of the S&S tracks in quite a while. Did you get your votes in? If so, I'm curious what you picked. Last day to vote, everyone.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Aug 5, 2023 15:36:38 GMT
I thought I'd post a video from Stars and Stripes Vol. 1, "Long Tall Texan" by Doug Supernaw, before this thread moves on. It's one of my favorite tracks from the album and a fun video to boot. Other than some of the backing musicians (and correct me if I'm wrong), I think Doug Supernaw and Carl Wilson are the only two artists who passed away since the release of the album in 1996.
And, what was it about Brown and this album - Junior Brown, Sawyer Brown, and T. Graham Brown! Wasn't Jim Ed Brown available?
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Post by The Cincinnati Kid on Aug 5, 2023 21:21:02 GMT
I'll have to think about this a little bit as I rate SiP a little higher than most. I also haven't listened to most of the S&S tracks in quite a while. Did you get your votes in? If so, I'm curious what you picked. Last day to vote, everyone. I did. I'd probably rank them like this: 1. From There to Back Again 2. Spring Vacation 3. You're Still A Mystery 4. Pacific Coast Highway 5. Hot Fun in the Summertime 6. Soul Searchin' 7. Summer's Gone 8. Lahaina Aloha 9. Still Surfin' 10. Strange Things Happen Honorable Mention: 1. That's Why God Made the Radio 2. Beaches in Mind 3. Island Fever I didn't really consider S&S as I also think of it as a tribute album more than anything. Some solid songs, though.
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Post by B.E. on Aug 5, 2023 21:38:04 GMT
I think it’s interesting that you prefer “You’re Still A Mystery” over “Soul Searchin’”.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 5, 2023 21:54:57 GMT
I think it’s interesting that you prefer “You’re Still A Mystery” over “Soul Searchin’”. That was my initial thought, but I recalled The Cincinnati Kid was a big fan of "YSAM." It's funny that those two are lumped together, same era, the two tunes we got some Beach Boys vocals on, because they're so different. The former is pretty strange in its structure, while the latter is a total genre exercise. But originality (or lack of same aside), I personally do think "Soul Searchin'" is the better recording. Gotta admit I appreciate the effort on "YSAM," though.
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Post by The Cincinnati Kid on Aug 5, 2023 22:03:24 GMT
The chorus on YSAM has always been what's made it a top favorite of mine. Don't Get Me Wrong, I love Soul Searchin' as well.
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Post by B.E. on Aug 6, 2023 12:40:21 GMT
In comparing the two yesterday, "Soul Searchin'" almost has a show-stopping quality to it; whereas, "You're Still A Mystery" is much more understated. Man, would I have loved for them to record an entire album worth of that material. These tracks are so good!
By the way, I ended up having "You're Still A Mystery" stuck in my head for hours after this discussion yesterday!
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