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Post by carllove on Dec 30, 2023 1:04:03 GMT
Still wonder why this was not released in the States. Was it a legal issue?
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Post by carllove on Dec 30, 2023 3:40:34 GMT
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Post by jk on Dec 30, 2023 10:17:17 GMT
Yes. Oops! Drumbo was Captain Beefheart's name for his long-suffering drummer John French. (Geddit?)
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Post by jk on Dec 30, 2023 10:21:43 GMT
Still wonder why this was not released in the States. Was it a legal issue? The wiki sheds a little light on this matter. It's ironic that Stateside in this case means not Stateside...
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 30, 2023 12:21:19 GMT
Yes. Oops! Drumbo was Captain Beefheart's name for his long-suffering drummer John French. (Geddit?) Amazing what a difference one little letter makes...
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Dec 30, 2023 13:41:05 GMT
That is an interesting article. I did find some inaccuracies, at least based on what I read/heard/saw over the years. But there's some stuff in there I never read before. And, below the article are 299 comments. Some of them (especially stories about Dennis) are interesting, too.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Dec 30, 2023 13:57:00 GMT
Still wonder why this was not released in the States. Was it a legal issue? This is what I was referring to in my above post about Dennis's (solo) music not getting the interest, attention, or support it should've. For this single, why didn't Reprise step in and get behind it? I realize the Beach Boys' reputation and popularity was sagging terribly; some might consider 1970 as their all-time low in terms of popularity. Friends peaked at #126, 20/20 peaked at a more respectable #68 (but #3 in the U.K.), and Sunflower tanked at #151. But they did make some noise with the singles "Do It Again", "I Can Hear Music", and "Breakaway". I wonder what would've happened if Reprise promoted "Sound Of Free"/"Lady" or even a possible solo album from Dennis - as "a new record from The Beach Boys' drummer, Dennis Wilson!". Probably nothing...
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 30, 2023 14:28:46 GMT
They might have thought it would compete with the Beach Boys' own singles and didn't want to risk the potential splintering of sales? But I really don't know.
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 30, 2023 14:32:58 GMT
Still wonder why this was not released in the States. Was it a legal issue? The wiki sheds a little light on this matter. It's ironic that Stateside in this case means not Stateside... I'd say very little light. It speculates at why it was released in the UK: John Tobler, eight years later, saying, "No-one seems to have ever asked Dennis what the idea was behind this burst of independence, but it's possible that there's some connection with the fact that Sunflower, and in fact Surf's Up ... were released in Britain on the Stateside label." But that at best speculates as to why they chose the label they did in the UK, not why they didn't release it in the US. (For that matter, it also doesn't answer his first question about "the idea behind this burst of independence." I think that's easier to answer, though: he was flirting with the idea of a solo album and recording a ton of music!)
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Dec 30, 2023 14:43:20 GMT
They might have thought it would compete with the Beach Boys' own singles and didn't want to risk the potential splintering of sales? But I really don't know. Oh, I'm sure that was the reason. Reprise just signed The Beach Boys to a multi-album contract and Brian was participating and everybody was focused on The Beach Boys' future - certainly not Dennis Wilson's.
There was an alternate solution to simply ignoring Dennis's music. How about a Beach Boys' double album? Of course that wasn't possible either as the record company could've even agree on the songs for a single album.
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 30, 2023 14:56:59 GMT
They might have thought it would compete with the Beach Boys' own singles and didn't want to risk the potential splintering of sales? But I really don't know. Oh, I'm sure that was the reason. Reprise just signed The Beach Boys to a multi-album contract and Brian was participating and everybody was focused on The Beach Boys' future - certainly not Dennis Wilson's.
There was an alternate solution to simply ignoring Dennis's music. How about a Beach Boys' double album? Of course that wasn't possible either as the record company could've even agree on the songs for a single album.
If ever there was a time for a Beach Boys double album, certainly it was right around 1970-71, just depending on the timing of things. But the 1969-71 material ... there's just SO MUCH! And to some extent, I understand the labels not hearing hits (though I think a few of those tunes could have been minor hits with the right promotion). But there were a lot of good songs. That solution has to assume Dennis would have been on board with the idea of giving more of his music to the Beach Boys. At that time, he was certainly exploring a Dennis Wilson solo career, so it's possible he was squirreling away some of it for that. (This might also help explain why so much of the stuff he did with Dragon was left unfinished and never made Beach Boys albums.)
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Post by B.E. on Dec 30, 2023 15:21:18 GMT
For me, there's no contest: 1977. It's possible that he was at his absolute best in 1976, in terms of his ability, focus, and determination - areas where he struggled both in the early and late 70s - but I'm going with 1977 in order to include the most material. As Sheriff John Stone mentioned, 1977 saw the release of Pacific Ocean Blue, his contributions to Love You, work on his Bambu/ LA material, "Morning Christmas", and his contributions to "My Diane" (the latter being left out by SJS). 1970 is obviously a very strong year for Dennis and it does include the release of a few of my favorite Dennis' tracks in "Forever", "Slip On Through", and "Lady", but there's not enough on that level to compete with 1977, IMO. He was still growing as a songwriter and producer and, as discussed, was still struggling to finish his music and find a home for it. I also hold the opinion that he had yet to reach his best as a vocalist either. I'm not really a fan of his laidback/care-free approach to singing uptempo/rockers during that era. He did that better in the mid 60s and mid/late 70s. And, overall, he managed to sing with even more emotion on POB and some of Bambu. Admittedly, I do prefer his raspier voice, but while strongly related, what I'm talking about goes beyond that.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Dec 30, 2023 16:27:08 GMT
For me, there's no contest: 1977. It's possible that he was at his absolute best in 1976, in terms of his ability, focus, and determination - areas where he struggled both in the early and late 70s - but I'm going with 1977 in order to include the most material. As Sheriff John Stone mentioned, 1977 saw the release of Pacific Ocean Blue, his contributions to Love You, work on his Bambu/ LA material, "Morning Christmas", and his contributions to "My Diane" (the latter being left out by SJS). 1970 is obviously a very strong year for Dennis and it does include the release of a few of my favorite Dennis' tracks in "Forever", "Slip On Through", and "Lady", but there's not enough on that level to compete with 1977, IMO. He was still growing as a songwriter and producer and, as discussed, was still struggling to finish his music and find a home for it. I also hold the opinion that he had yet to reach his best as a vocalist either. I'm not really a fan of his laidback/care-free approach to singing uptempo/rockers during that era. He did that better in the mid 60s and mid/late 70s. And, overall, he managed to sing with even more emotion on POB and some of Bambu. Admittedly, I do prefer his raspier voice, but while strongly related, what I'm talking about goes beyond that. A few comments, B.E...Obviously I agree with your choice as I also voted for 1977. I thought about mentioning "My Diane" but again, I struggled with what year to place it in. In this case, it wasn't only that M.I.U. Album was released in 1978, but I wasn't exactly sure what year Dennis's actual lead vocal was recorded (and I didn't want someone parachuting in to correct me).
A quick comment on Dennis's voice/vocals. I don't know what era I prefer! I do think his Pacific Ocean Blue vocals were easily his most effective, but then I'm not crazy about his 15 Big Ones and Love You vocals - or "My Diane" for that matter - mainly because of the raspiness. I think Dennis's raspy voice only worked on certain songs. If he was not matched properly - his voice with the "right" song - the results were less than fulfilling. I'll also say that with Bambu, the raspiness went too far. Dennis's voice was beyond...effective...on those songs and I find them to be a difficult listen (for other reasons, too).
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Post by B.E. on Dec 30, 2023 17:37:54 GMT
A few comments, B.E...Obviously I agree with your choice as I also voted for 1977. I thought about mentioning "My Diane" but again, I struggled with what year to place it in. In this case, it wasn't only that M.I.U. Album was released in 1978, but I wasn't exactly sure what year Dennis's actual lead vocal was recorded (and I didn't want someone parachuting in to correct me). According to what's available; December 1977. 1970 is obviously a very strong year for Dennis and it does include the release of a few of my favorite Dennis' tracks in "Forever", "Slip On Through", and "Lady", but there's not enough on that level to compete with 1977, IMO. He was still growing as a songwriter and producer and, as discussed, was still struggling to finish his music and find a home for it. I also hold the opinion that he had yet to reach his best as a vocalist either. I'm not really a fan of his laidback/care-free approach to singing uptempo/rockers during that era. He did that better in the mid 60s and mid/late 70s. And, overall, he managed to sing with even more emotion on POB and some of Bambu. Admittedly, I do prefer his raspier voice, but while strongly related, what I'm talking about goes beyond that. A quick comment on Dennis's voice/vocals. I don't know what era I prefer! I do think his Pacific Ocean Blue vocals were easily his most effective, but then I'm not crazy about his 15 Big Ones and Love You vocals - or "My Diane" for that matter - mainly because of the raspiness. I think Dennis's raspy voice only worked on certain songs. If he was not matched properly - his voice with the "right" song - the results were less than fulfilling. I'll also say that with Bambu, the raspiness went too far. Dennis's voice was beyond...effective...on those songs and I find them to be a difficult listen (for other reasons, too). I disagree (to an extent) regarding Bambu. I think there are better vocals there than he gets credited for. Despite the fact that most (if not all) of those vocals are reportedly only guide vocals. Take a track like "Under the Moonlight". That's a very effective performance and I don't think 1970 Dennis would have sung it that well. Of course, some of the vocals on there aren't very good and weren't meant for release, but since he never finished Bambu - and the final vocals are typically the last thing you record - that's all we have. (By the way, that might have contributed to Dennis never finishing the album. He may have wanted to circa 1981-83 but doubted whether he could sing it the way he'd like...like he was able to for POB.) The "raspiness" issue is an interesting one, because it almost seems to me like sometimes fans act like his voice only became raspy (and therefore, to some, unappealing) in the mid/late 70s, but his voice was always raspy. That was arguably its main characteristic all along and why it was a good fit for the Beach Boys blend. Obviously, it got rasp ier post '73 and he had serious throat issues resulting in surgeries in the '80s. But your point about POB "easily being his most effective" vocals is certainly what I was getting at when I said he continued to improve as a singer (even if others prefer his more youthful sounding voice regardless). And while I haven't thought too much about this point; might it be true that he excelled (vocally and otherwise) on POB/ Bambu in more varied genres/styles than he had earlier in his career when his main strength was singing "Forever"/"Cuddle Up"-style ballads? Overall, it just seems to me like he grew and matured as an artist/musician through 1977.
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Post by B.E. on Dec 30, 2023 17:49:33 GMT
By the way, SJS, I've noticed that overall we agree on Mike, Al, and Dennis so far. And your choice for Carl (1979) was very close to my second choice (1980).
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