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Post by jk on Dec 29, 2023 14:51:02 GMT
As of now, we've got a tie for Al, with two votes apiece for 2012 and 1965. Will we get another vote to break the tie at the top? To give another year a second vote and expand the tie? Add another year to the mix? Last call for votes, just a few hours until I'll publish our tally and move on. OK, I'll break the tie. My first thought * went to 2015 (Al's entry at 1:07 on "Tell Me Why" never fails to being tears to my eyes), but that ain't no tie-breaker. My vote., if it's not too late, goes to 1965. * Actually, my first thought was, can I contribute anything constructive to this topic, as I'll inevitably ignore the thread title and just choose a song (or songs) I like...
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 29, 2023 15:12:29 GMT
As of now, we've got a tie for Al, with two votes apiece for 2012 and 1965. Will we get another vote to break the tie at the top? To give another year a second vote and expand the tie? Add another year to the mix? Last call for votes, just a few hours until I'll publish our tally and move on. OK, I'll break the tie. My first thought * went to 2015 (Al's entry at 1:07 on "Tell Me Why" never fails to being tears to my eyes), but that ain't no tie-breaker. My vote., if it's not too late, goes to 1965 -- as it did for Dennis.* Actually, my first thought was, can I contribute anything constructive to this topic, as I'll inevitably ignore the thread title and just choose a song (or songs) I like... Not too late, and so your vote for 1965 for Al breaks our tie. That's our winner, at three votes. But I am confused by the latter part of your sentence above that I've bolded: your vote for Al goes for 1965, as it did for Dennis? Looks like you picked 1970 for Dennis. Let me know if I've got that wrong.
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Post by jk on Dec 29, 2023 15:38:14 GMT
OK, I'll break the tie. My first thought * went to 2015 (Al's entry at 1:07 on "Tell Me Why" never fails to being tears to my eyes), but that ain't no tie-breaker. My vote., if it's not too late, goes to 1965 -- as it did for Dennis.* Actually, my first thought was, can I contribute anything constructive to this topic, as I'll inevitably ignore the thread title and just choose a song (or songs) I like...Not too late, and so your vote for 1965 for Al breaks our tie. That's our winner, at three votes. But I am confused by the latter part of your sentence above that I've bolded: your vote for Al goes for 1965, as it did for Dennis? Looks like you picked 1970 for Dennis. Let me know if I've got that wrong. No, you're right and I'm wrong. Blame it on this virus I'm trying my damnedest to shake off.
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 29, 2023 15:45:58 GMT
No problem. Get well soon!
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Post by carllove on Dec 29, 2023 16:04:01 GMT
Best year for Dennis? IMHO it was 1970. His songwriting from that period was a fountain of creativity, he released his first single outside of the Boys ("Sound of Free"/"Lady"), he was in fine voice, and he starred in a movie. 1971 and 1972 saw the completion of several of Dennis' finest songs and of course 1977 saw the release of POB, but I feel that as much as I love that album, it is more inconsistent than a "Poops/Hubba Bubba" release would have been.
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 29, 2023 16:32:10 GMT
I haven't decided yet, but I am giving some very serious consideration to a year in which not a single Dennis Wilson song saw release ... but it includes a lot of what I consider to be his most interesting music. As Sheriff John Stone said earlier and carllove just said again, an early '70s Dennis Wilson album could have been really good. (And I say this as somebody who doesn't really like Dennis's music as much as many do.) That year I am contemplating is 1971, when Dennis famously--or at least famously amongst the likes of us--pulled his material from Surf's Up. According to the Feel Flows credits, at least the basic tracks were recorded in 1971 for "4th of July," "It's a New Day," "Baby Baby," "Medley: All of My Love/Ecology," "Before," "Behold the Night," "Old Movie (Cuddle Up)," "Hawaiian Dream," "Sound of Free," "I've Got a Friend," "Barbara," and "Wouldn't It Be Nice (To Live Again)." I like some of that music more than a lot of what he actually released. But I have to think about 1969, 1970, 1972 (for the Holland songs and outtakes), and 1977, so it's not a sure thing. Still, I can't help but think how ironic it is that his best year might be one in which he released nothing. If only Dennis had the discipline to actually finish more of this stuff...
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Post by carllove on Dec 29, 2023 17:17:36 GMT
I haven't decided yet, but I am giving some very serious consideration to a year in which not a single Dennis Wilson song saw release ... but it includes a lot of what I consider to be his most interesting music. As Sheriff John Stone said earlier and carllove just said again, an early '70s Dennis Wilson album could have been really good. (And I say this as somebody who doesn't really like Dennis's music as much as many do.) That year I am contemplating is 1971, when Dennis famously--or at least famously amongst the likes of us--pulled his material from Surf's Up. According to the Feel Flows credits, at least the basic tracks were recorded in 1971 for "4th of July," "It's a New Day," "Baby Baby," "Medley: All of My Love/Ecology," "Before," "Behold the Night," "Old Movie (Cuddle Up)," "Hawaiian Dream," "Sound of Free," "I've Got a Friend," "Barbara," and "Wouldn't It Be Nice (To Live Again)." I like some of that music more than a lot of what he actually released. But I have to think about 1969, 1970, 1972 (for the Holland songs and outtakes), and 1977, so it's not a sure thing. Still, I can't help but think how ironic it is that his best year might be one in which he released nothing. If only Dennis had the discipline to actually finish more of this stuff... I strongly considered 1971 for the reason's you mentioned. He did actually record most of of the songs he started working on in 1970, in 1971, and those songs are some of his finest, even though we didn't get to hear some of them until much later. I also love his stuff in 1969 and 1972. It was just a great four year stretch for Dennis creatively.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Dec 29, 2023 18:12:16 GMT
How could somebody put in the time and effort, put in their ideas and creativity, put in their heart and soul - and not have it heard. To not be encouraged, to not be recognized, to not have somebody stand up for you and the music. Where was management, where was the record company, where were the people who did hear the music? Such a waste, such a loss, such a tragedy. And it's still not packaged and presented the way it should be.
Dennis Wilson - It's A New Day
Side 1 1. Lady 2. Sound Of Free 3. I'm Goin' Your Way 4. Before 5. Barbara
6. Old Movie (Cuddle Up)
Side 2 1. Behold The Night
2. Hawaiian Dream 3. All Of My Love/Ecology 4. Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again (4:40 Version) 5. It's A New Day
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Post by kds on Dec 29, 2023 18:18:33 GMT
I'm going with 1970 for Dennis's (gone 40 years today) best year, for the songs that Sheriff mentioned. Plus, Dennis's voice was in top shape. Yeah, I think that was his best year. I've never felt the love for POB that most fans do. It's a much better record that LY, it feels fully formed and complete. It's a mature statement from a mature artist, unlike the stuff the group was cranking out in 76/77/78. But I'm not absolutely slack-jawed, blown away by POB the way the rest of the BB community seems to be. The Sunflower era stuff on the other hand is brilliant. Yes, it helps that his singing voice was in good shape at the time. Last winter, I spent a lot of time in my car just playing the Feel Flows cd's over and over. If I was to pick a high point for the group, it would be Sunflower. Pet Sounds is Brian's baby, even though they sang on it. Other albums in later years would usually have at least one of the key members absent, or barely there. Sunflower has everyone contributing. I feel the same about POB. I think its a good album, but I'm not in the "overlooked masterpiece / best BB solo album" camp.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Dec 29, 2023 18:36:11 GMT
Yeah, I think that was his best year. I've never felt the love for POB that most fans do. It's a much better record that LY, it feels fully formed and complete. It's a mature statement from a mature artist, unlike the stuff the group was cranking out in 76/77/78. But I'm not absolutely slack-jawed, blown away by POB the way the rest of the BB community seems to be. The Sunflower era stuff on the other hand is brilliant. Yes, it helps that his singing voice was in good shape at the time. Last winter, I spent a lot of time in my car just playing the Feel Flows cd's over and over. If I was to pick a high point for the group, it would be Sunflower. Pet Sounds is Brian's baby, even though they sang on it. Other albums in later years would usually have at least one of the key members absent, or barely there. Sunflower has everyone contributing. I feel the same about POB. I think its a good album, but I'm not in the "overlooked masterpiece / best BB solo album" camp. I understand Pacific Ocean Blue isn't everybody's cup of tea. It kind of falls into that category with Smiley Smile, The Beach Boys Love You, and maybe 15 Big Ones. But I'll say this. I don't think I ever read a review of Pacific Ocean Blue that wasn't positive, and most of the time overwhelming positive. The album consistently appears in polls/articles for overlooked albums or hidden gems or best solo albums. Other than the Beach Boys' big bombers (and we know which ones they are), I don't see a lot of their albums being recognized. I'm not questioning or disagreeing with anybody's opinions BTW. Just making conversation.
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 29, 2023 19:05:07 GMT
How could somebody put in the time and effort, put in their ideas and creativity, put in their heart and soul - and not have it heard. The thing is, it goes beyond Dennis! After all, while we've gotten a lot of cool, previously unreleased Dennis music in the past 15 years or so (from the POB reissue with Bambu material), we spent much of the previous 15 or so (along with these latter 15) getting the same sort of thing from Brian Wilson himself. The Smile material obviously stands foremost amidst all that, but there were a lot of other really cool things that didn't see light of day for a long time, either because they were unfinished or just because ... well, because. In both cases, though--and especially with Dennis--I think it's a matter of simply not finishing things. I don't know how much of that was about a lack of external support as opposed to him just not having the mentality to sit down and do the grunt work to finish.
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Post by kds on Dec 29, 2023 21:11:39 GMT
I feel the same about POB. I think its a good album, but I'm not in the "overlooked masterpiece / best BB solo album" camp. I understand Pacific Ocean Blue isn't everybody's cup of tea. It kind of falls into that category with Smiley Smile, The Beach Boys Love You, and maybe 15 Big Ones. But I'll say this. I don't think I ever read a review of Pacific Ocean Blue that wasn't positive, and most of the time overwhelming positive. The album consistently appears in polls/articles for overlooked albums or hidden gems or best solo albums. Other than the Beach Boys' big bombers (and we know which ones they are), I don't see a lot of their albums being recognized. I'm not questioning or disagreeing with anybody's opinions BTW. Just making conversation. Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike POB. I think it's a good album. But, I just don't think it's a great album.
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Post by jk on Dec 29, 2023 22:39:24 GMT
No problem. Get well soon! Thanks, Cap'n.
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Post by carllove on Dec 29, 2023 23:57:52 GMT
How could somebody put in the time and effort, put in their ideas and creativity, put in their heart and soul - and not have it heard. The thing is, it goes beyond Dennis! After all, while we've gotten a lot of cool, previously unreleased Dennis music in the past 15 years or so (from the POB reissue with Bambu material), we spent much of the previous 15 or so (along with these latter 15) getting the same sort of thing from Brian Wilson himself. The Smile material obviously stands foremost amidst all that, but there were a lot of other really cool things that didn't see light of day for a long time, either because they were unfinished or just because ... well, because. In both cases, though--and especially with Dennis--I think it's a matter of simply not finishing things. I don't know how much of that was about a lack of external support as opposed to him just not having the mentality to sit down and do the grunt work to finish. Perhaps Dennis had ADHD. I can totally relate. I always start my projects with such enthusiasm, and then I get distracted. I have to write everything down in a planner at work, or I will forget what I need to do, what I have done and where I have been. I do best when there are tight deadlines. Give me a due date, and I am on point. If one isn’t the principal talent and results aren’t expected by a certain date, it’s a given if you have ADHD, there is a lot of songs that will never be completed. I’m sure with Dennis’ substance abuse issues, keeping detailed notes and keeping on track, was not something he was capable of doing. I suspect he actually did have a bit of help, especially from Carl and Daryl Dragon, but when it is “your” song, there is only so much someone else can do to help you produce a completed product.
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 30, 2023 0:17:41 GMT
I think it's very possible he had ADHD or some similar condition. It's always tricky to try to diagnose someone from afar (especially decades later, and when I have no qualifications to diagnose anyone!), but he certainly was always described as impulsive. And to some degree whether it was a personality trait or a condition/disorder, it's not a lot of difference: it's who he was.
The substance abuse issues no doubt did not help. But it would have been great if Dragon could have reined him in, as I think he was the best collaborator Dennis ever had.
Then again, a successful Dennis Wilson solo album circa 1971 or 72 also might have meant the end of Dennis Wilson, Beach Boy.
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