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Post by Kapitan on Dec 14, 2023 14:21:51 GMT
Sometimes we talk about our favorite eras for the Beach Boys. What about making that a little trickier in two different respects, and discuss our favorite individual years for each individual Beach Boy? You can use whatever criteria you'd like: performances on albums or singles released that year; songwriting; live performances; fashion statements (Keep It Clean...); facial hair ... whatever you like. I thought I'd kick it off with Michael Edward Love: he's been there from the beginning to this very day, so there are plenty of years from which to choose. Which year do you think was his finest, and why? Mike Love: 1965 - 6 votes ( Kapitan , B.E. , Sheriff John Stone , kds , Emdeeh , carllove ) 2017 - 1 vote ( nater414 ) 1988 - 1 vote ( lonelysummer ) 1970 - 1 vote ( jk ) Carl Wilson:1972 - 2 votes ( B.E. , Kapitan ) 1981 - 1 vote ( lonelysummer ) 1979 - 1 vote ( Sheriff John Stone ) 1971 - 1 vote ( jk ) 1970 - 1 vote ( kds ) 1969 - 1 vote ( carllove ) 1966 - 1 vote ( nater414 ) Al Jardine:1965 - 3 votes ( Sheriff John Stone , B.E. , jk ) 2012 - 2 votes ( lonelysummer , Emdeeh ) 1986 - 1 vote ( carllove ) 1978 - 1 vote ( nater414 ) 1973 - 1 vote ( kds ) 1969 - 1 vote ( Kapitan ) Dennis Wilson:1970 - 5 votes ( kds , lonelysummer , Emdeeh , jk , carllove ) 1977 - 3 votes ( Sheriff John Stone , B.E. , Kapitan ) Bruce Johnston:1970 - 4 votes (Sheriff John Stone , lonelysummer , B.E. , Kapitan)1971 - 3 votes (jk , kds , Emdeeh ) 1979 - 1 vote ( nater414 ) 1976 - 1 vote ( carllove ) Brian Wilson:1966 - 6 votes (jk , Sheriff John Stone , Kapitan , kds , carllove , B.E.)1967 - 1 vote ( Emdeeh ) 1965 - 1 vote ( AGD)
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 14, 2023 14:59:58 GMT
For me, Mike's best year was 1965.
He had some other very good moments, especially including 1964. But 1965 includes some of Mike's better vocals as well as maybe more really good songs than he cowrote in any other year.
I think the two studio albums of originals that year--Today and Summer Days (And Summer Nights)--probably have more Wilson/Love collaborations than any other consecutive albums, though I didn't check. And they're overwhelmingly good, with far less filler than most of the earlier albums.
Think of these songs he cowrote (with songs he sang lead or co-lead parts bolded):
California Girls Please Let Me Wonder Kiss Me, Baby Help Me, Rhonda When I Grow Up (To Be A Man) Good To My Baby Don't Hurt My Little Sister Dance Dance Dance Let Him Run Wild Girl From NYC She Knows Me Too Well And Your Dreams Come True You're So Good To Me Amusement Parks USA Salt Lake City In the Back of My Mind
That's not a bad year of work, and it doesn't include his co-lead on "Devoted to You," from Party, another highlight.
So that's my choice for Mike: he never got better than 1965.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Dec 14, 2023 20:47:28 GMT
I would agree with 1965 with 1964 being a close second. I have an addition to Kapitan's list, albeit just a couple seconds of singing, but it might be Mike Love's most well-known vocal part of his entire career. I'm referring of course to "A Ba-Ba-Ba-Ba-Barbara Ann".
Mike was looking pretty good in 1965. He hadn't yet started with that silly parting of his hair. He was still beardless (though the beard looked good on him), and he wasn't yet dressing like an aging hippy or a Maharishi wearing a bed sheet.
This is really a darkhorse year that doesn't even compare to 1964 or 1965 - and I don't expect it to sniff a vote - but I thought 1978 was a good year for Mike Love. I liked his songs on the M.I.U. Album, and I also appreciated a couple of the songs on the Almost Summer soundtrack album. Mike was on the radio, two albums, and touring all over the place. He was getting slightly nasal but not overly. There was a touch of self-channeling or self-imitating vocally, but I thought he did it well. He owned that Southern California nasal twang. Nobody could do it quite like Mike. 1978 was the year I saw my first Beach Boys' concert and Mike carried the show. The Beach Boys were leaking some serious oil in 1978 but it wasn't Mike Love's fault. In several ways he was a highlight, for me anyway.
Oh, and Mike's fashion sense in 1978? While he wore some Hawaiian shirts prior to 1978, he really started to go all out with the Hawaiian prints and the white, cotton pants. I thought he looked cool actually, and I went out and bought a shirt and pants just like Mike's. Hardly ever wore them, though. I could never find the right...event...to break 'em out.
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Post by B.E. on Dec 15, 2023 1:07:37 GMT
I agree that 1965 was his best year. 1964 is another great year, but it's not perfect. Both Concert and the Christmas album have "lesser" Mike moments; whereas, I really think Mike excelled on Party! (in addition to Today! and SDSN, of course). As I've said in other threads, I'm a pretty big fan of Mike's through 1973. His stage banter being my least favorite of his contributions. I'd probably rank his top 5 years something like this:
1. 1965 2. 1964 3. 1963 4. 1962 5. 1967
He also had very strong contributions to many other years (again, particularly through 1973), but being more of a role player in those years makes it tough to compare. Although, I could definitely see fans who (strongly) prefer the late 60s/early 70s Beach Boys to the classic era having no problem ranking those years among Mike's best (both due to his contributions, but also preferring that role for Mike, and appreciating that he seemed to buy into it for a time).
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 15, 2023 1:22:32 GMT
I thought about those early '70s years and how I really like what Mike did, but then I thought of how little there was of it, relatively speaking. Take for example Sunflower, I like Mike's contributions. But, as the song goes, is that all there is?
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Post by B.E. on Dec 15, 2023 1:24:10 GMT
I think the two studio albums of originals that year-- Today and Summer Days (And Summer Nights)--probably have more Wilson/Love collaborations than any other consecutive albums, though I didn't check. Unfortunately, Mike's true songwriting credits will always be uncertain. Not that that affected my ranking, but it's just hard to trust due to the history. Harder than usual, anyway.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Dec 15, 2023 1:46:18 GMT
I think the two studio albums of originals that year-- Today and Summer Days (And Summer Nights)--probably have more Wilson/Love collaborations than any other consecutive albums, though I didn't check. Unfortunately, Mike's true songwriting credits will always be uncertain. Not that that affected my ranking, but it's just hard to trust due to the history. Harder than usual, anyway. I haven't checked the list for awhile, the one that was compiled for the infamous "songwriting credit" lawsuit of 1992, but from what I do remember, I did not have many if any problems with Mike's claims. I could easily see/hear/believe his lyrical contributions to all of those songs listed.
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Post by B.E. on Dec 15, 2023 2:20:38 GMT
Unfortunately, Mike's true songwriting credits will always be uncertain. Not that that affected my ranking, but it's just hard to trust due to the history. Harder than usual, anyway. I haven't checked the list for awhile, the one that was compiled for the infamous "songwriting credit" lawsuit of 1992, but from what I do remember, I did not have many if any problems with Mike's claims. I could easily see/hear/believe his lyrical contributions to all of those songs listed. Yeah, I get that. But when Mike's credits jump from 2 to 9 ( Today!) and 1 to 8 ( SDSN) that obviously plays a big role in whether those two albums back-to-back have the most Love co-writes or not! (I haven't checked either, Kapitan, but I'm sure it's up there.) That said, I really just wanted to express that in contemplating this topic and comparing the tracklists and credits, unfortunately, there's going to be more uncertainty of what the truth is. And that doesn't even get into the split. We just see the names "Wilson" and "Love", we don't see if it's 50/50 or 80/20 or what. (And even if we did, that wouldn't necessarily reflect reality.) But like I said, this didn't affect my ranking. I, too, don't really have a problem believing that Mike contributed enough to the vast majority of those songs to receive official credit. But, I'm also wary of how much easier it is to believe someone wrote something that they sung.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Dec 15, 2023 12:22:18 GMT
I haven't checked the list for awhile, the one that was compiled for the infamous "songwriting credit" lawsuit of 1992, but from what I do remember, I did not have many if any problems with Mike's claims. I could easily see/hear/believe his lyrical contributions to all of those songs listed. Yeah, I get that. But when Mike's credits jump from 2 to 9 ( Today!) and 1 to 8 ( SDSN) that obviously plays a big role in whether those two albums back-to-back have the most Love co-writes or not! (I haven't checked either, Kapitan, but I'm sure it's up there.) That said, I really just wanted to express that in contemplating this topic and comparing the tracklists and credits, unfortunately, there's going to be more uncertainty of what the truth is. And that doesn't even get into the split. We just see the names "Wilson" and "Love", we don't see if it's 50/50 or 80/20 or what. (And even if we did, that wouldn't necessarily reflect reality.) But like I said, this didn't affect my ranking. I, too, don't really have a problem believing that Mike contributed enough to the vast majority of those songs to receive official credit. But, I'm also wary of how much easier it is to believe someone wrote something that they sung. Well, this is the way I look(ed) at it. Somebody wrote the lyrics to those B.Wilson / M. Love songs. I'm not being a wise guy, but it wasn't Dennis Wilson, Carl Wilson, or Al Jardine. Now, it could've been Brian, and maybe (probably?) he contributed a word or phrase. But, logic or common sense or just from what we read/heard, it was overwhelming and it most cases totally Mike Love - and he deserves credit for it. Mike has tried - and I think he came off looking bad actually - to reduce Brian's role and inflating his own. Mike will say things like "I came up with these concepts and lyrics and my cousin Brian added these brilliant harmonies. Brian was great at that." Hey, Mike, did you forget about the melodies, the arrangements, the production, and the vocal performances?
Now, how much one considers those/Mike's lyrics as quality or noteworthy or whatever is another argument. Are they really any good? Great? Pedestrian? And, how one "breaks down" the percentage of how much the lyrics contribute to the overall greatness of a/the song is another argument. Are you a lyrics guy? Do they really matter to you? Can they make or break a song? And, in the Beach Boys' case, did Brian's brilliance completely overwhelm or overshadow the lyrics? Could they have been singing about breakfast cereal and still had a Top 10 hit?
No matter what percentages (95/5, 80/20, 50/50) you come up with in any area, Mike's influence is gonna still be there, no matter how many times some people try to state otherwise...or try to reduce his credit. And Mike knows that. So does Brian.
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 15, 2023 12:33:49 GMT
It's a fair question, and one we could have in any songwriting credits discussion. It's of course more notable here because of the lawsuit involved. And we ought not minimize Brian's lyrical contributions. He didn't write a lot of lyrics, but he did write some, and some were pretty doggone good. But I'm inclined to believe Mike had a relatively significant role in the lyrics of those songs, and in some cases he might even have written them all.
For my own choice of '65 as his best year, honestly I think I'd have gone with it even if he only cowrote a few of those songs. His singing on the songs in those years is also really great. (Though it might have flipped me to '64.)
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 15, 2023 12:55:34 GMT
By the way, I believe I'll make this a rolling thread as we move through each member, and I'm going to post people's choices in that first post of the thread as we continue. So far, we've got Sheriff John Stone, B.E., and me all choosing '65. I encourage others to chime in with their picks, too.
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nater414
Denny's Drums
Posts: 23
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Post by nater414 on Dec 15, 2023 18:32:33 GMT
Very interesting conversation.
So far lots of picks for years in the 60's, so I wanna shine a light on a different era.
I think 2017 was a great year for ML.
Sunshine Tomorrow was released, which celebrated Wild Honey, an album where Mike co-wrote 10/11 songs. The Wild Honey Tour was spectacular. The touring band was firing on all cylinders. The setlists were great. If there has been any reappraisal of Mike in recent years, which I think there has been, I think the archival box sets have helped show what a team player and talented guy he was.
2017 also saw Mike release UTL, which not only served to reaffirm his solo artistry, but began a trilogy of back to back albums. UTL charted #37 on Billboard's Independent Album chart. A pretty cool accomplishment for someone who was 76 at the time. It must have been vindicating after the lack of success LBWL had. It's impressive that in 2017 Mike embarked on what was basically his solo career v2.0. Many artists entering their late 70's would be thinking about slowing down, not entering a new multi-album record deal. I look back on that year fondly as a fun time to be a fan of ML and BBs. The WH tour was excellent, and getting to hear 'new' material in the setlist by year's end, even if it was solo material, was neat as a frequent attendee of Mike's concerts.
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Post by kds on Dec 15, 2023 18:51:48 GMT
I'd pick 1965 too, with 1964 as a very close second. Just for Fun Fun Fun and I Get Around alone, 1964 ranks highly. Plus, I love his vocals on the first four songs on the Christmas Album.
Plus, the lyrics to Warmth of the Sun.
I almost went with 1970. Granted, he's not on Sunflower a ton, but I think All I Wanna Do might be his greatest lead.
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 15, 2023 18:58:02 GMT
nater414, interesting choice! I can't say I agree with it, but I definitely can appreciate your logic on it. Plus, it's nice to have some diversit of opinion. I guess by going first, I took the low-hanging fruit. kds, funny because your logic on those other two (1964 and 1970) was pretty similar to what I had in mind. For 1964, frankly I thought there was quite a bit of filler. But just those top songs of that year...they are SO GOOD. Literally just those best songs from that year would warrant somebody being called one of the greats. (Mike, of course, had plenty of others, too.) And then 1970, he wasn't a major presence in the songwriting capacity or vocal capacity compared to earlier years, but there were some great moments on Sunflower.
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Post by kds on Dec 16, 2023 1:45:22 GMT
nater414, interesting choice! I can't say I agree with it, but I definitely can appreciate your logic on it. Plus, it's nice to have some diversit of opinion. I guess by going first, I took the low-hanging fruit. kds, funny because your logic on those other two (1964 and 1970) was pretty similar to what I had in mind. For 1964, frankly I thought there was quite a bit of filler. But just those top songs of that year...they are SO GOOD. Literally just those best songs from that year would warrant somebody being called one of the greats. (Mike, of course, had plenty of others, too.) And then 1970, he wasn't a major presence in the songwriting capacity or vocal capacity compared to earlier years, but there were some great moments on Sunflower. I agree there is some filler on SDV2, far less so on ASL and Xmas (I know I'm more bullish on the Christmas album). So, I think if you compare the filler on SDV2 with Party!, its almost a wash.
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