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Post by lonelysummer on Dec 20, 2023 21:14:11 GMT
1981 for me
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 20, 2023 21:43:56 GMT
I think tomorrow morning (Central time) we'll move on from Carl to our third Beach Boy in this series, so if you haven't yet voted or chimed in, please do!
(But, as with moving from Mike to Carl, also feel free to continue discussion. No need to cut it off sharply just for a random deadline.)
I find it interesting how spread out the responses to Carl's best year have been, everywhere from 1966 to 1981, with our leading vote-getter so far getting just two votes. And also, despite Holland and some great touring (and guest appearances), not a single vote for '73.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Dec 21, 2023 0:15:02 GMT
Carl's best year was a difficult decision, and I think one of the reasons, in addition to him always being outstanding (except when he was not as prominent from 1962-65), is that he continued to improve as a singer. And, I think he was the only Beach Boy I can say that about, at least as his career progressed and into his later years. The other guys, unfortunately, either stayed roughly the same (which wasn't bad ), or sadly, hit a brick wall and regressed.
Brian was excellent from Day One, but at roughly age 26 in 1968, he started to decline and, well, we know what happened in 1974-75. What happened to Brian's voice was a tragedy. Mike was also very good from Day One and he hung in there pretty good, really only going "nasal" when he hit 35 years old in the mid-70s. Dennis's voice was the most complicated. I think he started weak, improved in the late 60s/early 70s, and was wasted by the mid-70s. However, the interesting thing about Dennis was, even though his singing voice was shot, he could still, at times, use it effectively, Pacific Ocean Blue being an example. Al's voice was probably the most consistent of any Beach Boy throughout his career. He always sounded pretty much the same, though I felt he did mature somewhat vocally in the late 70s/early 80s. However, I don't think Al was in Carl's league vocally, and that's not a slam at Al. Bruce has always been Bruce, competent but not exceptional.
And then there was Carl. Not ignoring "Pom Pom Play Girl" or "Girl Don't Tell Me", but Carl basically came out firing in 1966 with "God Only Knows" and "Good Vibrations". Hard to top that! But I think Carl did improve as a singer. I informally put Carl's vocals into three categories - The Early Years (1962-1969), The Middle Years (1970-1978), and The Later Years (1979-1998). I think Carl kept getting better with each era. He got stronger, his voice deepened, his phrasing which was always fine improved, and he became very versatile. Carl could sing any type of song effortlessly. I'm sure you've heard the saying, "Carl Wilson could sing the phone book and make it sound great." Just listen to Carl's variety of vocals on Youngblood. No other Beach Boy could touch that. While Carl had his share of substance abuse, I always felt Carl took his craft more seriously than the other guys. I think he worked at it. I think he wanted to be a great singer, not just to make good records or to be professional at live performances. He had higher standards. As I posted in my prior post, Carl's vocals were always great, but I felt, starting in 1979, he took it up a notch - a big notch - and became exceptional, not only The Beach Boys' best singer, but one of the elite vocalists in popular music.
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Post by lonelysummer on Dec 21, 2023 5:26:55 GMT
One of the shockers with Carl was reading (probably in ESQ) that he started taking singing lessons (sometime in the late 80's?). The man was absolutely dedicated to his craft. The thing that kind of dropped off was his guitar playing. Oh sure, he could still play all those classic leads from the early hits, but I do think his emphasis changed to singing. Where he excelled in later years on guitar was as a rhythm player. I think you have know chords real well to play things like God Only Knows and Good Vibrations - that's not just blues changes there. He knew all the voicings, plus his ear enabled him to hear anyone that hit a bum chord or note. Yeah, it's tough to narrow it down to just one year or era, because his dedication never changed. Even in 1978, when his life was going off the rails, he took responsibility and actually apologized for a substandard performance. Can you imagine, say, Bob Dylan or Van Morrison doing that? Okay, who's next?
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Dec 21, 2023 12:18:25 GMT
I also thought it was interesting and I appreciated how Carl tried to establish a new image, well, maybe not new, but he did change his wardrobe and it really stood out. I am not being critical of the other guys, they had their images, too - Brian and the sweat suits, Dennis in jeans and t-shirts, Mike in Hawaiian shirts/white pants/hats, and Al and Bruce in polo shirts and shorts/jeans. Eventually, Carl opted for slacks, silk shirts, and even sport coats - even in warm temperatures. Actually, it kinda stood out on stage and in group photos. Sometimes Carl looked like he was in the wrong band!
One area that I have been critical of Carl was his interviews. He rarely had anything...deep...to say. I do think he was at least professional and articulate, and didn't say anything wacky or controversial. He seemed to be cautious and aware of exactly what he was - and wasn't - saying.
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 21, 2023 14:34:01 GMT
I know we had this back-and-forth before, Sheriff John Stone, but I always liked Carl's interviews. I think he was careful, yes, but I appreciate that about him. He at least seemed pretty honest, as opposed to the full-on promotional messaging that the others fell into sometimes. And I think both his intelligence and eloquence shone through in interviews. I just wish there were more interviews with him publicly available, especially on YouTube.
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 21, 2023 19:28:27 GMT
The board has spoken, but I think saying we've got a consensus is FAR from the reality: 1972 was Carl Wilson's best year by votes, but with just two; while 1966, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1979, and 1981 had one vote apiece. (1970-73 also had a vote--and honestly is probably what I'd call the most correct vote--but I'm not including ranges in the tallies.)
Before proceeding, I also want to make a little housekeeping note: I'm not planning to put up David Marks, Blondie Chaplin, or Ricky Fataar for votes, due to their relatively short tenures with the group. If there are serious objections, though, I'd be open to reconsidering. This isn't meant to diminish their contributions during their tenures, either. It's just that there isn't a lot to go on.
Up next for discussion, what was the best year for...
Al Jardine
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Dec 21, 2023 19:50:48 GMT
One thing I wouldn't say I'm struggling with, but I haven't reconciled yet either. And, that has to do with session dates and when the corresponding album was eventually released. There are numerous examples of this in the Beach Boys' history, but I'll just point out two. Holland's sessions were in 1972 but the album was only released in 1973. I will say that I think of Holland as a 1973 album. Another example is M.I.U. Album, which was mostly recorded in late 1977, yet was only released in 1978. Again, I think of M.I.U. Album in terms of 1978 but was actually recorded almost a year earlier. So, when you're evaluating one of the guys' best years, what do you go with? When the sessions were or when the album was released? I'll eventually figure it out.
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 21, 2023 19:56:29 GMT
I've been dealing with that "problem" (pretty first-world problem, isn't it!? ) by just using whatever else might play into my answer. With Carl for '72, I thought, OK, it's the CATP album (most of the sessions plus release) and Holland sessions and touring: that makes for a stronger year than, say, the release of Holland and touring in '73. Not exactly the strictest policy I've got going on here on my end... By the way, Sheriff John Stone, when I saw you'd responded in this thread already, I was sure you'd have already voted and picked 77 or 78, for MIU. I see I was premature in my assumption ... but you did mention it!
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 21, 2023 20:10:16 GMT
While this is not my choice, somewhat inspired by nater414's choice with Mike's best year, I would like to say that a sneakily attractive choice for Al Jardine would be 2012. First, he was given the lead for what I consider to be hands-down the best song on That's Why God Made the Radio, the opening salvo of the closing trilogy, "From There to Back Again." Yes, it was auto-tuned to death, but he still nailed it. Great vocal, great song. He followed that up by showng what a mistake Brian and Mike made in not giving him a lot more leads, as he proved throughout C50 that he was the best singer in the Beach Boys (among the principals, anyway). Sure, he only had maybe half a dozen leads a night, but I think you'd be hard pressed to argue Brian, Mike, Bruce, or Dave sang better than he did night after night. Serious fans may have known how relatively strong his voice still was going in, but I'd bet a lot of casual ones had no idea (or, conversely, had no idea how much the others' had deteriorated).
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Dec 21, 2023 21:03:11 GMT
For my vote for Al Jardine's "best year", I'm definitely going with quality over quantity. Yes, again I was tempted to re-visit 1978 and M.I.U. Album. Hey, Al got to produce a Beach Boys' album! He also contributed to the songwriting on a few songs (including the M.I.U. Christmas songs), and his vocals on "Peggy Sue" are the best of his career (give it/them a close listen). Al was starting to accumulate a couple of extra leads in concert, and, I don't know...Al was starting to get a little more hard-earned respect. He hitched his wagon to Mike and rode that while Brian, Dennis, and Carl were struggling with issues.
Even with all of that being said, I'm going with 1965 as Al's best year. That would be two Beach Boys now, including Mike Love, who get 1965 for my vote. On 1965's Summer Days (And Summer Nights!!), Al got the opportunity of a career, of a lifetime. Producer Brian Wilson chose Al to be the lead vocalist on a #1 hit record and on a Phil Spector cover. Not too shabby. "Help Me, Rhonda" and "Then I Kissed Her". Brian could've handled them both himself actually, but Al did a great job. In addition to giving Al a couple more leads in concert through the years, it also gave him some representation on numerous comps. Thank you, Brian.
In addition to Summer Days (And Summer Nights!!), in 1965 Al got another lead vocal on another album, Beach Boys' Party!, with "The Times They Are a-Changin'" by another decent songwriter. Maybe you heard of him...Bob Dylan. Oh, also in 1965, Al suggested to Brian that he record "Sloop John B".
Not a bad year, Al, not bad for just your second full year as a Beach Boy. Even Carl and Dennis weren't getting as much attention. That would soon change, with Carl anyway.
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Post by lonelysummer on Dec 21, 2023 21:17:12 GMT
I'm thinking 2012 for Al. Although 2023 seems to be the biggest year ever for Al. But not in the Beach Boys. I'd like to hear Al sing Now and Then.
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Post by B.E. on Dec 22, 2023 14:03:35 GMT
One thing I wouldn't say I'm struggling with, but I haven't reconciled yet either. And, that has to do with session dates and when the corresponding album was eventually released. There are numerous examples of this in the Beach Boys' history, but I'll just point out two. Holland's sessions were in 1972 but the album was only released in 1973. I will say that I think of Holland as a 1973 album. Another example is M.I.U. Album, which was mostly recorded in late 1977, yet was only released in 1978. Again, I think of M.I.U. Album in terms of 1978 but was actually recorded almost a year earlier. So, when you're evaluating one of the guys' best years, what do you go with? When the sessions were or when the album was released? I'll eventually figure it out. I think factoring in the recording and/or live performance dates makes the most sense. At least when considering the music itself (as opposed to the public reception or potential change in band dynamics that may have resulted). That said, I don't plan on being strict or consistent about it, at all. Whatever approach helps me reach a satisfying conclusion is the one I'm going with! But just to revisit Carl for a moment, factoring the recording dates helped tremendously. 1972 and 1980 really seem to be his most productive music making years. And having been released on January 8th, Holland was unquestionably entirely recorded in 1972, for instance. Often, it's not so clear. Anyway, moving on to Al...
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Post by B.E. on Dec 22, 2023 14:31:19 GMT
Even with all of that being said, I'm going with 1965 as Al's best year ... Oh, also in 1965, Al suggested to Brian that he record "Sloop John B". You know what, that's no small thing! 1965 was my gut reaction, but I still want to consider all the other years, including his relatively strong later years. And not just C50, but also his solo album, storyteller shows, and contributions to NPP and touring with Brian.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Dec 22, 2023 16:57:20 GMT
Even with all of that being said, I'm going with 1965 as Al's best year ... Oh, also in 1965, Al suggested to Brian that he record "Sloop John B". You know what, that's no small thing! 1965 was my gut reaction, but I still want to consider all the other years, including his relatively strong later years. And not just C50, but also his solo album, storyteller shows, and contributions to NPP and touring with Brian. Al's solo album would cause me to deduct points (I'm sorry, I can't help myself).
Now, Al's contribution to No Pier Pressure is another thing, and frankly, I didn't think of it. Al's vocal work on that album is outstanding, easily one of his best albums in any configuration.
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