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Post by Kapitan on Dec 18, 2023 15:48:56 GMT
Carl's too good to narrow down to just one year. I can get down to 1970-73, but that's it. I'm really struggling so far, and this is roughly where I am with it at the moment. The challenge for me is, Carl's lead (and background, for that matter) vocals are basically always good to great. But then to look at things like songwriting credits to help break the relative ties is tricky, because Carl tended to only have a few songs on albums, even during that time he was de facto bandleader in the early 70s. I've got a few ideas to help me break the tie, but am not quite sure yet.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Dec 18, 2023 16:04:34 GMT
One final observation on Mike Love and his "best year" of 1965. For the next two years and two albums - 1966/67 and Pet Sounds/SMiLE - Mike was replaced as collaborator, lyricist, and mostly lead singer. Obviously, it must've been terribly difficult and frustrating, at times, to be in The Beach Boys.
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 18, 2023 16:14:31 GMT
One final observation on Mike Love and his "best year" of 1965. For the next two years and albums - 1966/67 and Pet Sounds/SMiLE - Mike was replaced as collaborator, lyricist, and mostly lead singer. Obviously, it must've been terribly difficult and frustrating, at times, to be in The Beach Boys. I do think this is very valid. Mike has long-since been painted as the bad guy for his apparent hesitation about some of that music (though there are different reports about exactly how he felt and acted about the changes, and I do think he's given a fairer shake now than he was maybe 20 years ago), but it isn't hard to understand how he could have felt hurt or angry. It's not after a bomb that Brian decides to work more with other lyricists or give more leads to other guys, but after a couple of their best years--and as this board seems to think, anyway, Mike's very best years. You're the starting QB on a Super Bowl-winning team, and that offseason, management decides to draft a new QB? It wouldn't sit well.
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Post by carllove on Dec 18, 2023 17:07:32 GMT
Carl's too good to narrow down to just one year. I can get down to 1970-73, but that's it. I'm really struggling so far, and this is roughly where I am with it at the moment. The challenge for me is, Carl's lead (and background, for that matter) vocals are basically always good to great. But then to look at things like songwriting credits to help break the relative ties is tricky, because Carl tended to only have a few songs on albums, even during that time he was de facto bandleader in the early 70s. I've got a few ideas to help me break the tie, but am not quite sure yet. David Leaf wrote in the liner notes for the Friends / 20/20 twofer that “I Can Hear Music” could be considered the track that was the turning point in the transition of musical control in The Beach Boys from Brian to Carl. It was recorded in October 1968, but since it was released in 1969, I did take that into consideration as well. I think Brian had stopped actively participating in the band recording sessions after his hospitalization that Summer. Carl and Dennis made sure that the tracks of Brian’s that they liked, got completed and added to 20/20.
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Post by lonelysummer on Dec 18, 2023 20:27:36 GMT
As a Beach Boy, I think Carl's glory days were the early 70's - the band seemed to have united around the idea of making contemporary music, and this gave Carl the confidence to produce works like Long Promised Road, Feel Flows, and Trader. And he seems to be the most active as a producer during those years. I could also choose 1984-85; that was really Carl's last gasp of creativity within the group; I really don't know what happened to him after that. It's ridiculous to think that Carl died in 1998, but his last songs with the group were in 1985. If we're including work outside the group, I would have to choose 1980-1982, when he toured and recorded his solo albums. It seems like getting clean really recharged his batteries; nothing song-wise after Holland in 73 until LA (Light Album) in 79, from then to 85 he was fairly prolific.
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 18, 2023 20:32:22 GMT
It's ridiculous to think that Carl died in 1998, but his last songs with the group were in 1985. Unfortunately it seems to me that he didn't really think of them as a creative entity anymore: he turned over the reins of their recordings to Mike and Terry Melcher, and at least I always got the impression he was just there for the ride from then on. The fact that he was giving material to Beckley-Lamm-Wilson rather than the Beach Boys is a shame. Then again, the Beach Boys barely released any new material after '85, anyway. Talk about a dry spell, from SiP all the way to TWGMTR. By the way, did you want to pick a specific year for me to mark for Carl? Or just leave it the broader "early 70s"?
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Dec 18, 2023 21:11:20 GMT
For Carl Wilson's best year, I was going back and forth between 1979 and 1980. I thought Live At Knebworth might tip the scale to 1980, but I decided on 1979, and this is why.
As we know, Carl was experiencing some serious personal problems in 1978, but by 1979 he appeared to be much healthier. That was a good thing in many ways, but as it pertained to The Beach Boys it was especially good as both Brian and Dennis had already begun an unhealthy spiral that would affect them both personally and professionally. One way in which Carl recovered and particularly shined was vocally. In 1979, I felt Carl was singing better than ever, and it could not have come at a better time. The group was under a new contract with CBS, a new album was due, and again, Brian and Dennis's voices were basically shot. Mike was becoming more nasal with each year, and although Bruce Johnston returned to the fold, it was more as the group's producer than a singer/songwriter. The group needed Carl more than ever and he really came through for them.
The Beach Boys' first album for CBS was 1979's L.A. (Light Album), and though the album got mixed reviews, the biggest highlight that stood out was Carl Wilson's excellent vocals. The album was basically a tour de force by Carl. Of the 10 songs on L.A. (Light Album), Carl wrote/co-wrote 4 of them, and he sang lead or partial lead vocals on 6 of the songs. He basically sang lead vocals on every song on Side 2 of the album. Carl's singing is simply spectacular. He sang the ballads, the pop songs, the little rock & roll that was on the album, and, yes, disco music. He literally "saves" some of the songs. I think that L.A. (Light Album) might be Carl Wilson's best Beach Boys' album - vocally. His voice/vocals were turned up a notch. He was starting to peak. I don't want to get carried away and proclaim L.A. (Light Album) a quasi-Carl Wilson solo album, but it's darn close. He's all over it. For me personally, Carl's vocals gave me hope. After listening to Carl's singing on L.A. (Light Album), I felt at least the band still had a chance at greatness. They could still compete and be...current. Whoever wrote a quality/hit song (hopefully Brian) could turn it over to Carl for the song to reach its full potential. That's what happened with "Good Timin'". Carl's lead vocal is perfect, it sounded great on the radio, and it gave the band some class. I don't think any of the other band members could've done it justice the way Carl did. I don't think I'm exaggerating to say that in 1979, Carl Wilson had become one of the premier vocalists in rock/pop music. I guess in reality he had been for some time, but it was now his turn to shine, and he was ready.
Bonus points go to Carl's outstanding vocal on 1979's "It's A Beautiful Day" which, ironically, would've fit perfectly on the next Beach Boys' album, 1980's Keepin' The Summer Alive.
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Post by B.E. on Dec 19, 2023 1:00:37 GMT
I've narrowed it down to two finalists: 1) 1972 - CATP, Holland sessions, and the 1972 In Concert tracks 2) 1980 - KTSA, Carl Wilson sessions, and Knebworth. I'm thinking 1972 will win out, but I'm still listening. I'll go with 1972 by the slimmest of margins. That "Marcella'" and "Let the Wind Blow" from In Concert were recorded in 1972 might have tipped the scale. You've also got the Carnegie Hall show on Sail on Sailor. But what made this really tough is that while Carl peaked as a producer circa 1972, it wasn't until later, circa 1980, that Carl really came into his own as a songwriter. As a singer, I think it's a wash. But a lot of what I like about the 1972 material, were written by Dennis or Brian, and Mike and Al as well. So, it's tough to manage. 1980 might be my favorite Carl. He was very productive that year. And I just get more of a sense that that's Carl. (Recall that 'musical identity' thread?) But, again, I'm going with 1972 as his "best" year. Mainly for the production and his singing, and the fact that there aren't really any "lesser" Carl moments on those two albums, in particular, or even just Carl-heavy tracks that I'm just not as high on as other fans (e.g. "Girl Don't Tell Me", "It's About Time", "Feel Flows"). If I were to reach for a 3rd place? 1967.
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Post by B.E. on Dec 19, 2023 1:17:00 GMT
If we're including work outside the group, I would have to choose 1980-1982, when he toured and recorded his solo albums. I assumed all of their music was fair game. But, perhaps we should clear that up before moving on. Kapitan?
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Post by lonelysummer on Dec 19, 2023 2:04:37 GMT
It's ridiculous to think that Carl died in 1998, but his last songs with the group were in 1985. Unfortunately it seems to me that he didn't really think of them as a creative entity anymore: he turned over the reins of their recordings to Mike and Terry Melcher, and at least I always got the impression he was just there for the ride from then on. The fact that he was giving material to Beckley-Lamm-Wilson rather than the Beach Boys is a shame. Then again, the Beach Boys barely released any new material after '85, anyway. Talk about a dry spell, from SiP all the way to TWGMTR. By the way, did you want to pick a specific year for me to mark for Carl? Or just leave it the broader "early 70s"? Yeah, I'm having a hard time with this, after reading what the Sheriff posted, I'm going with 1979-1985. I know that's a lot of years; just too hard to nail it down to one. Maybe 1980. Maybe 1981 - that took guts, going out on his own, and doing a non-Beach Boys show.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Dec 19, 2023 3:02:29 GMT
If we're including work outside the group, I would have to choose 1980-1982, when he toured and recorded his solo albums. I assumed all of their music was fair game. But, perhaps we should clear that up before moving on. Kapitan ? I'm considering ALL work/music in my evaluations. With Mike Love, while I didn't end up voting for 1978, I did consider/note his Celebration songs as something that gave me enjoyment.
With Carl, while I voted for 1979, I'd have no problem with 1980, 1983, or 1985. Carl's vocal work "made" Keepin' The Summer Alive and The Beach Boys (1985) - and saved Summer In Paradise for what that's worth. Oh, and Youngblood might be Carl's best album - vocally - of all of 'em.
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 19, 2023 11:40:48 GMT
If we're including work outside the group, I would have to choose 1980-1982, when he toured and recorded his solo albums. I assumed all of their music was fair game. But, perhaps we should clear that up before moving on. Kapitan ? Anything: Beach Boys, solo, guest spots, outside collaborations. Performing, recording, writing, dancing. Anything.
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 19, 2023 11:42:41 GMT
Unfortunately it seems to me that he didn't really think of them as a creative entity anymore: he turned over the reins of their recordings to Mike and Terry Melcher, and at least I always got the impression he was just there for the ride from then on. The fact that he was giving material to Beckley-Lamm-Wilson rather than the Beach Boys is a shame. Then again, the Beach Boys barely released any new material after '85, anyway. Talk about a dry spell, from SiP all the way to TWGMTR. By the way, did you want to pick a specific year for me to mark for Carl? Or just leave it the broader "early 70s"? Yeah, I'm having a hard time with this, after reading what the Sheriff posted, I'm going with 1979-1985. I know that's a lot of years; just too hard to nail it down to one. Maybe 1980. Maybe 1981 - that took guts, going out on his own, and doing a non-Beach Boys show. Well let me know if you settle on one year, for the vote tally.
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 20, 2023 13:21:55 GMT
I could easily be convinced to change my mind, as there really isn't a single standout year for Carl so much as there are several stretches of great contributions. But (drum roll please)...
1972.
The reason I'm going with 1972 is, that seems to be when Carl really stepped up into, bandleader and primary producer, and arguably even the primary influence on the group's musical direction overall. It seemed less like trying to hold down the fort between Brian's contributions, or imitating an absent Brian for an unaware public, and more just the new Beach Boys' sound.
He was a--and possibly the--primary driver in bringing Ricky and Blondie fully into the band, officially announced in Feb. 72. You can argue the merits of that decision, but it was a major decision, a line in the sand, a flag planted, choose your metaphor. He said, "we're not that anymore; we're this now." That takes courage.
He was the bandleader, helping assemble and lead what was becoming a real, kickass rock and roll band that still did justice to the pop hits.
He was the primary producer behind the recording of most of two albums in that year: CATP and Holland. While I was not in love with the sound on my two original CDs (the twofer CD, actually, which had both), always having thought it felt a bit muffled, I think that was likely more a mixing and mastering issue than the recording and production itself. And the Sail On Sailor set largely confirmed that. Those albums were creative, diverse, and interesting, even if not always successful.
Never a prolific songwriter, he did contribute to a few gems in this year, especially "The Trader," but also contributing to "All This is That" and "Leaving This Town."
Oh yeah, and he sang! As always, his lead and backing vocals were great. "Only With You," "Trader," "Steamboat," "Marcella," "All This Is That," "Mess of Help..."
So while it is not a strong, definitive standout year, it's my pick as best among near-equals: 1972.
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nater414
Denny's Drums
Posts: 23
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Post by nater414 on Dec 20, 2023 17:20:35 GMT
Sheriff and Kapitan, I loved your descriptions of 79 and 72 respectively. Genuinely heartwarming to read and think about how outstanding Carl was in those years.
For Carl, I'll pick 1966. His lead vocals on GOK and GV are so ethereal and beautiful. Plus his guitar and bass playing added a lot to PS and Smile in my opinion. I love his 12 string on That's Not Me.
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