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MLB
Aug 19, 2020 13:14:53 GMT
Post by kds on Aug 19, 2020 13:14:53 GMT
I actually feel similarly about basketball, though to a lesser degree. Thanks to analytics, it's mostly guys chucking 3s.
Baseball players have a similar all or nothing approach. Swing for the fences, who cares if you strike out 200 times. The Orioles have a young outfield named Cedric Mullins who has struggled. He's a fast guy. In the old days, he'd have been taught to slap the ball the other way, or put it on the ground, get on base, and create havoc on the basepaths with the ability to steal. Not in today's game though.
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MLB
Aug 19, 2020 13:24:17 GMT
Post by Sheriff John Stone on Aug 19, 2020 13:24:17 GMT
I actually feel similarly about basketball, though to a lesser degree. Thanks to analytics, it's mostly guys chucking 3s.
Whoa! While I agree with you, I'm surprised to read you say it. I've been saying that for years. You give the outside shooting percentages (especially from 3) of the respective teams and I'll tell you the winner of the game.
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MLB
Aug 19, 2020 13:41:51 GMT
Post by Kapitan on Aug 19, 2020 13:41:51 GMT
I actually feel similarly about basketball, though to a lesser degree. Thanks to analytics, it's mostly guys chucking 3s.
Whoa! While I agree with you, I'm surprised to read you say it. I've been saying that for years. You give the outside shooting percentages (especially from 3) of the respective teams and I'll tell you the winner of the game. I'll explain why I feel that way in the NBA thread, I don't want to muck up the MLB one with my constant detours to basketball.
Back on topic, it took 12 innings but the Twins beat the Brewers last night to improve to 16-8. Still leading the AL Central.
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MLB
Aug 19, 2020 13:48:11 GMT
Post by kds on Aug 19, 2020 13:48:11 GMT
The Orioles are falling back down to earth, sitting at 12-11. They were due for a correction period.
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MLB
Aug 19, 2020 14:18:08 GMT
Post by B.E. on Aug 19, 2020 14:18:08 GMT
So, I've been watching baseball for thirty years, and have read tons of books and watched plenty of docs on the game's history. I never knew there was an unwritten rule that you don't swing at a 3-0 pitch if you have a big lead late in a game. Rising star Fernando Tatis Jr, hit a 3-0 pitch for a grand slam late in a game against the Rangers where the Padres already had a 7-0 lead. Apparently, the Rangers' feelings were so hurt that they threw at the next hitter. Seriously, I never knew competitive athletes had such thin skin. This is the kind of archaic nonsense that'll keep the game from gaining new fans. I think I do recall that unwritten rule. Baseball's always been big on tradition and unwritten rules and all that. I think it's both a strength and weakness. To the latter, players and managers often come across as thin-skinned and just downright silly (not to mention excessively vengeful). And, it does come off as archaic nonsense at times. A lot of old-timers love all that. It's kinda interesting, though, that you clearly don't care for that side of the game (which is rooted in tradition), yet you lament baseball's move away from fundamentals. I'd probably be in more or less the same boat, though, if I still watched. To that specific rule - I remember getting so annoyed at hitters who'd refused to swing at 3-0 pitches. And, not just late in games in which they've got a big lead (which I do think is somewhat unsportsmanlike), but EVER! A fastball down the middle? Nah.
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MLB
Aug 19, 2020 14:29:04 GMT
Post by kds on Aug 19, 2020 14:29:04 GMT
So, I've been watching baseball for thirty years, and have read tons of books and watched plenty of docs on the game's history. I never knew there was an unwritten rule that you don't swing at a 3-0 pitch if you have a big lead late in a game. Rising star Fernando Tatis Jr, hit a 3-0 pitch for a grand slam late in a game against the Rangers where the Padres already had a 7-0 lead. Apparently, the Rangers' feelings were so hurt that they threw at the next hitter. Seriously, I never knew competitive athletes had such thin skin. This is the kind of archaic nonsense that'll keep the game from gaining new fans. I think I do recall that unwritten rule. Baseball's always been big on tradition and unwritten rules and all that. I think it's both a strength and weakness. To the latter, players and managers often come across as thin-skinned and just downright silly (not to mention excessively vengeful). And, it does come off as archaic nonsense at times. A lot of old-timers love all that. It's kinda interesting, though, that you clearly don't care for that side of the game (which is rooted in tradition), yet you lament baseball's move away from fundamentals. I'd probably be in more or less the same boat, though, if I still watched. To that specific rule - I remember getting so annoyed at hitters who'd refused to swing at 3-0 pitches. And, not just late in games in which they've got a big lead (which I do think is somewhat unsportsmanlike), but EVER! A fastball down the middle? Nah. That's because I find a more traditional approach to the game, with a multidimensional approach at scoring runs, far more entertaining than a pitcher crying about giving up a grand slam to a rising star in the game. Especially when you consider that baseball has no time limits, and you still need to record 27 outs to get a win. So, considering that, there should be no limitations on scoring. Let's leave the mercy rules, written or unwritten, to the kiddies.
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MLB
Aug 19, 2020 14:59:24 GMT
Post by B.E. on Aug 19, 2020 14:59:24 GMT
Let's leave the mercy rules, written or unwritten, to the kiddies. Unwritten rules of sportsmanship have always been around at all levels of play, haven't they? If anything, I'd say sportsmanship is decline. Nothing new about thin-skinned players, either. That's all I'm saying. I'm not defending the pitcher. The punishment, hitting the next batter, hardly seems sportsmanlike to me!
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MLB
Aug 19, 2020 15:08:49 GMT
Post by B.E. on Aug 19, 2020 15:08:49 GMT
Somewhat related, but I'm not really trying to make a point, just taking an unpleasant trip down memory lane.
As a pitcher, I remember getting absolutely smacked around once. I gave up an OBSCENE amount of runs in the first inning of a game. I think the coach wanted me to finish the inning on my own, but I can't remember if I actually did or not. He may have ended up pulling me. The game was over before my team got to bat. I felt terrible. The end.
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MLB
Aug 19, 2020 15:18:17 GMT
Post by kds on Aug 19, 2020 15:18:17 GMT
Let's leave the mercy rules, written or unwritten, to the kiddies. Unwritten rules of sportsmanship have always been around at all levels of play, haven't they? If anything, I'd say sportsmanship is decline. Nothing new about thin-skinned players, either. That's all I'm saying. I'm not defending the pitcher. The punishment, hitting the next batter, hardly seems sportsmanlike to me! I don't think not taking an opportunity to hit a grandslam and tack on some more runs in a game that has no time limit falls under poor sportsmanship. It's not totally unheard of for leads of seven runs to more to be the victim of a major bullpen meltdown. And I've never been a fan of throwing at a hitter in any situation. I can see it more being more of a big deal in a football games if a QB is still throwing bombs up 48-3 with a minute left. But, in baseball, pile on all you can, whenever you can.
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MLB
Aug 19, 2020 15:26:52 GMT
kds likes this
Post by Kapitan on Aug 19, 2020 15:26:52 GMT
I tend to side with KDS on this, but within reason. As a Vikings fan, I grew up with the old joke that the "prevent defense" only prevented us from winning the game, as in my childhood we routinely gave up big leads by sitting back being "good sports."
Once a lead is insurmountable, sure, you can relax. But until then? Nope. Pile it on, especially in the pros. (The lower the level of competition, the more favorable I am to some kind of sportsmanship dictating you ease up.)
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MLB
Aug 19, 2020 15:27:59 GMT
Post by Kapitan on Aug 19, 2020 15:27:59 GMT
Somewhat related, but I'm not really trying to make a point, just taking an unpleasant trip down memory lane. As a pitcher, I remember getting absolutely smacked around once. I gave up an OBSCENE amount of runs in the first inning of a game. I think the coach wanted me to finish the inning on my own, but I can't remember if I actually did or not. He may have ended up pulling me. The game was over before my team got to bat. I felt terrible. The end. My most memorable baseball tragedy came in summer ball around 5th grade. It was a really hot day and I was playing shortstop. I guess it was all too much, and I threw up right there on the field. I was humiliated!
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MLB
Aug 19, 2020 15:41:39 GMT
Post by kds on Aug 19, 2020 15:41:39 GMT
I tend to side with KDS on this, but within reason. As a Vikings fan, I grew up with the old joke that the "prevent defense" only prevented us from winning the game, as in my childhood we routinely gave up big leads by sitting back being "good sports."
Once a lead is insurmountable, sure, you can relax. But until then? Nope. Pile it on, especially in the pros. (The lower the level of competition, the more favorable I am to some kind of sportsmanship dictating you ease up.)
Right, and let's ask the 2016 Atlanta Falcons or 2019 SF 49ers about how seemingly insurmountable leads can disappear. One more thing about the (for some silly reason) controversial GS that Tatis hit. Grand Slams are very rare, so if you can get one why not? Alex Rodriguez hit the most career GSs in history, with 25, and it took him over 12,000 career plate appearances to do it.
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MLB
Aug 19, 2020 16:01:33 GMT
Post by B.E. on Aug 19, 2020 16:01:33 GMT
The opposing side (which I don't really care to be) would say that sportsmanship is about more than winning and certainly more than personal accolades. Personally, if I leaned one way or the other as a player, it wasn't toward sportsmanship. (Not that I was out to hurt or humiliate anyone either.)
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MLB
Aug 19, 2020 16:19:47 GMT
Post by kds on Aug 19, 2020 16:19:47 GMT
The opposing side (which I don't really care to be) would say that sportsmanship is about more than winning and certainly more than personal accolades. Personally, if I leaned one way or the other as a player, it wasn't toward sportsmanship. (Not that I was out to hurt or humiliate anyone either.) I'm all for sportsmanship, but to me, this doesn't fall under that category. Also, it's interesting that the Rangers are playing the part of crybaby in this case. I don't recall them relenting when they scored 30 runs against the Orioles in a game in Baltimore in 2007.
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MLB
Aug 19, 2020 17:10:17 GMT
Post by Kapitan on Aug 19, 2020 17:10:17 GMT
I think we're all roughly on the same page, with just differences on the edges. (Which is fine and normal!)
Sportsmanship is, to some degree, more important than the games themselves, in that it is the only thing that allows the framework for games: you need to have some degree of confidence that anyone playing is going to play by the agreed-upon rules, and (in amateur, fun settings) you want to be a person/team that the other person/team is going to keep wanting to play in a series of games. If you're a terrible sport, you're just not going to be able to play in games at all.
But the question is when exactly you're going from ensuring you win to being a poor sport.
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