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Post by Kapitan on Aug 12, 2022 0:36:55 GMT
And another thing...I just wanted to compliment you on ranking 15 Big Ones ahead of Smiley Smile. Who'd a thunk it that the very flawed, overall disappointing, critical disaster album, 15 Big Ones, would be rated higher than an album - recorded and produced in 1967 by Brian Wilson (I know what the credit says) - which includes "Good Vibrations", "Heroes And Villains", "Vegetables", "With Me Tonight", "Wind Chimes", and "Wonderful". But, you know what? I agree with you. At least for now. Smiley has some better stuff at the top, but as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't have "Wonderful" or "Wind Chimes" ... and therein lies the problem for me. Admittedly I'm almost certainly letting my grudge carry over, but to think that Smile was far enough along to have had so much of its great material released, and instead just release brutalized reworkings? I hate that. (I realize some people love that stuff. I guess I can relate, in that I'm on that side for things like Love You.) Leaving so much treasure on the shelves is almost unforgivable. But I'm sure if I came in fresh, I wouldn't rate them that way. And 20 years ago I certainly didn't. Smiley would've been top five and 15BO would've been bottom few.
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Post by The Cincinnati Kid on Aug 12, 2022 1:24:12 GMT
Finally getting around to posting mine while taking a break from working on the house and watching the field of dreams game. My rankings are as follows: S tier, obviously an all timer. A tier 1-2 mediocre tracks, but otherwise top tier albums, B tier, mostly good to great songs. C tier, half good, half bad, D tier, mostly bad.
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Post by lonelysummer on Aug 12, 2022 1:33:48 GMT
That's almost my list, except for SS being at the bottom, and Wild Honey and LA being near the bottom.
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Post by The Cincinnati Kid on Aug 12, 2022 1:55:41 GMT
If people are finished pillorying poor Sheriff John Stone, I'll volunteer for the bullseye next. Go ahead, tell me what I did wrong (and I'll tell you why you're mistaken)! A few things very different than mine, but nothing I can really say is unreasonable. Only thing close to that is having Today in the B tier and Friends in the A. I've always thought of Friends as being a very solid album, but 6th best?
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Post by B.E. on Aug 12, 2022 2:00:56 GMT
If people are finished pillorying poor Sheriff John Stone , I'll volunteer for the bullseye next. Go ahead, tell me what I did wrong (and I'll tell you why you're mistaken)! A few things very different than mine, but nothing I can really say is unreasonable. Only thing close to that is having Today in the B tier and Friends in the A. I've always thought of Friends as being a very solid album, but 6th best? Haha - I had to check but it turns out I, too, have Friends at 6th best, but Kapitan demoting Today to 'B' tier is what jumped out at me as well (I ranked it #2).
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Post by carllove on Aug 12, 2022 2:13:19 GMT
If people are finished pillorying poor Sheriff John Stone , I'll volunteer for the bullseye next. Go ahead, tell me what I did wrong (and I'll tell you why you're mistaken)!
What the heck - another big dose of love for Love You. What am I missing? What tracks should I love from that album, because I can’t find any. Wikipedia I think described it as The Beach Boys “Punk” album and I was like - I’m going to love it! Then I was like - yeah - not so much. Yes for Friends in the A tier though! Sunflower and Wild Honey B tier? Ok - maybe a few weak tracks, but dang Sunflower has “This Whole World” and “All I Wanna Do” and dang those are some of my favorite Beach Boys songs. Overall though - Really good rankings.
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Post by B.E. on Aug 12, 2022 2:15:36 GMT
Love You is a very polarizing album. It's often rated either very high or very low. I just think certain types of (Brian) fans are going to love it and some just aren't. It doesn't share much in common with other Beach Boys albums, so it's sort of an all-in or all-out situation.
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Post by carllove on Aug 12, 2022 2:18:52 GMT
And another thing...I just wanted to compliment you on ranking 15 Big Ones ahead of Smiley Smile. Who'd a thunk it that the very flawed, overall disappointing, critical disaster album, 15 Big Ones, would be rated higher than an album - recorded and produced in 1967 by Brian Wilson (I know what the credit says) - which includes "Good Vibrations", "Heroes And Villains", "Vegetables", "With Me Tonight", "Wind Chimes", and "Wonderful". But, you know what? I agree with you. At least for now. Smiley has some better stuff at the top, but as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't have "Wonderful" or "Wind Chimes" ... and therein lies the problem for me. Admittedly I'm almost certainly letting my grudge carry over, but to think that Smile was far enough along to have had so much of its great material released, and instead just release brutalized reworkings? I hate that. (I realize some people love that stuff. I guess I can relate, in that I'm on that side for things like Love You.) Leaving so much treasure on the shelves is almost unforgivable. But I'm sure if I came in fresh, I wouldn't rate them that way. And 20 years ago I certainly didn't. Smiley would've been top five and 15BO would've been bottom few. Agree with you Kapitan about Smiley Smile. What was left out or presented in a diminished form is indeed unforgivable. Give me the GV Boxset/Smile versions of “Wonderful” and “Wind Chimes” and that album elevates a tier.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Aug 12, 2022 2:36:10 GMT
What the heck - another big dose of love for Love You. What am I missing? What tracks should I love from that album, because I can’t find any. If you have 12-13 minutes to spare, cue up these five Love You songs as a kind of sampler:
1. Let Us Go On This Way 2. Roller Skating Child 3. The Night Was So Young 4. I'll Bet He's Nice 5. Airplane
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Post by carllove on Aug 12, 2022 2:39:28 GMT
What the heck - another big dose of love for Love You. What am I missing? What tracks should I love from that album, because I can’t find any. If you have 12-13 minutes to spare, cue up these five Love You songs as a kind of sampler:
1. Let Us Go On This Way 2. Roller Skating Child 3. The Night Was So Young 4. I'll Bet He's Nice 5. Airplane
I will do that tomorrow. Easy work day and I’m bringing my Harmon Kardon Bluetooth speaker with me to my office. The Apple Music feed is really nice.
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Post by B.E. on Aug 12, 2022 2:54:27 GMT
Smiley has some better stuff at the top, but as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't have "Wonderful" or "Wind Chimes" ... and therein lies the problem for me. Admittedly I'm almost certainly letting my grudge carry over, but to think that Smile was far enough along to have had so much of its great material released, and instead just release brutalized reworkings? I hate that. (I realize some people love that stuff. I guess I can relate, in that I'm on that side for things like Love You.) Leaving so much treasure on the shelves is almost unforgivable. But I'm sure if I came in fresh, I wouldn't rate them that way. And 20 years ago I certainly didn't. Smiley would've been top five and 15BO would've been bottom few. Agree with you Kapitan about Smiley Smile. What was left out or presented in a diminished form is indeed unforgivable. Give me the GV Boxset/Smile versions of “Wonderful” and “Wind Chimes” and that album elevates a tier. That's a very interesting part of this: How context affects fans' enjoyment of the music and/or affects their rankings. I say "and/or" because it could be that a person is using context to rationalize or attempt to explain why they don't like certain albums as much as others but the context doesn't actually negatively affect their enjoyment of the album...the music does. I suspect that's often not the case, though, that context does affect their enjoyment. For instance, SJS seems to...well...punish Smiley Smile, Wild Honey, and Friends for not being Brian's '65-66 productions. But, neither were any albums to come afterwards (especially, MIU!), but they aren't held to the same standard. I've said this before, but I think Party is an album that is unfairly maligned, not for the content, but its placement between Summer Days and Pet Sounds in the catalog. It really is interesting to think if all context - our extensive knowledge of Beach Boys history and our expectations - could be removed (past and present) and you just listen to two albums back-to-back and judge them solely on the music meeting your ears, how does your rankings change? Kapitan's touched on that with his comments about Smiley Smile and SJS did too when he wondered if he's being too easy on MIU. There's also many other types of phenomenon. Like, fans preferring whatever it was that got them into the group in the first place. Or preferring what they experienced in real-time as a young fan ( that's a big one I've noticed). Often fans form expectations and are disappointed when they aren't met. I don't say any of this judgmentally. It's all part of it. It's part of what makes it interesting.
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Post by jk on Aug 12, 2022 9:49:38 GMT
I respect everyone's ranking. It is what it is. Although I do think mine is definitive. Just wait. We'll get to you later. Eek. I've been warned. Now where's that hard hat?
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Aug 12, 2022 11:10:55 GMT
Agree with you Kapitan about Smiley Smile. What was left out or presented in a diminished form is indeed unforgivable. Give me the GV Boxset/Smile versions of “Wonderful” and “Wind Chimes” and that album elevates a tier. That's a very interesting part of this: How context affects fans' enjoyment of the music and/or affects their rankings. I say "and/or" because it could be that a person is using context to rationalize or attempt to explain why they don't like certain albums as much as others but the context doesn't actually negatively affect their enjoyment of the album...the music does. I suspect that's often not the case, though, that context does affect their enjoyment. For instance, SJS seems to...well...punish Smiley Smile, Wild Honey, and Friends for not being Brian's '65-66 productions. But, neither were any albums to come afterwards (especially, MIU!), but they aren't held to the same standard. I've said this before, but I think Party is an album that is unfairly maligned, not for the content, but its placement between Summer Days and Pet Sounds in the catalog. It really is interesting to think if all context - our extensive knowledge of Beach Boys history and our expectations - could be removed (past and present) and you just listen to two albums back-to-back and judge them solely on the music meeting your ears, how does your rankings change? Kapitan's touched on that with his comments about Smiley Smile and SJS did too when he wondered if he's being too easy on MIU. There's also many other types of phenomenon. Like, fans preferring whatever it was that got them into the group in the first place. Or preferring what they experienced in real-time as a young fan ( that's a big one I've noticed). Often fans form expectations and are disappointed when they aren't met. I don't say any of this judgmentally. It's all part of it. It's part of what makes it interesting. Good points, B.E. and I confess to being...guilty...as having context affecting my rankings - maybe more than some fans, having experienced many of the albums in real time going back to 1974.
I also wanted to be a little defensive regarding my comments and criticism of Smiley Smile/Wild Honey/Friends. It wasn't just the production of those three albums that I found lacking, but the overall quality of the songs, or lack of (greatness), that keeps me from ranking them higher. But also, like I said, I think I need a re-evaluation of those three. Maybe the context has changed!
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 12, 2022 11:28:04 GMT
I agree with B.E.'s point, and actually I'm not happy about the reality of it. I don't want context to affect my appreciation. But I think it's inevitable. A person can rationalize, try to disassociate, or whatever, but life experiences inevitably are going to be a part of it, whether it's the time and place you heard the music, the background stories about the artists that you're aware of, or whatever else.
Think of it this way:
a) You see a painting but aren't told who did it. You love it. b) You're told you're about to see a painting by Adolf Hitler. You ... probably don't love it, no matter how good it is. You're just not going to be able to love it.
That's extreme, but I think the point remains. I actually try to fight against it, but it just seems to be the way things go. You'll feel differently about a song you hear during the worst moment of your life than one you hear during the best moment of your life. But the songs themselves are what they are separate of your experiences...you just can't hear them that way.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 12, 2022 11:28:53 GMT
What the heck - another big dose of love for Love You. What am I missing? What tracks should I love from that album, because I can’t find any. If you have 12-13 minutes to spare, cue up these five Love You songs as a kind of sampler:
1. Let Us Go On This Way 2. Roller Skating Child 3. The Night Was So Young 4. I'll Bet He's Nice 5. Airplane This is funny in that Airplane is one I'd never recommend to win someone over. And I'd have Good Time and Mona in there for sure, certainly above the first two you mentioned.
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