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Post by B.E. on Jul 4, 2022 13:12:32 GMT
Sheriff John Stone , you didn't call me out, but I was criticizing his voice. So I'll reply to that: and I don't really disagree with you. I wasn't so much saying Mike was newly awful, an in fact I didn't even think he was awful at all (and said so, specifically). It just stood out to me that with that great sounding group, he was a (the?) musical weak link. And weak is exactly the word: Murry Wilson is shouting up from below, "come on, ya got any guts?" I'm 100% convinced that live performances often sound better because we're in the moment. The clarity of hindsight--or really the clarity of tape, once any adrenaline or serotonin or whatever has worn off--is quite a reality check. Or cold shower. I listened with headphones and thought the sound and mix were great, but Mike also stood out to me as the musical weak link. I thought Bruce sounded really good. You could hear him clearly (again, great mix). But, Mike...it was probably just my mind playing tricks, but I actually thought I heard some mild autotune on his lead. But perhaps that's just an odd, unnatural-sounding byproduct of the rasp and nasality of his aged voice. That said, I'm strictly referring to the state of his voice not his performance. (And I'm also not suggesting that this particular performance marked a noticeable decline in Mike's voice. Just that it stood out from the rest of the presentation. To me, Mike's voice noticeably declined circa 1976.) Regarding your second point, I think that's indisputable.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jul 4, 2022 13:44:25 GMT
I think the "weakest link" phenomenon has been present in the Beach Boys' band going waaaaay back. I remember in the late 1970s/early 1980s, Bobby Figueroa standing next to Dennis Wilson, playing some percussion instrument and providing some drum fills. Then, when Dennis would make his way over to the piano or leave the stage, Bobby would take over on drums and it was like "Whoa!". It's not that Bobby was showing up Dennis but his drumming was obviously superior.
Also, circa 1980, Carl was turning some of the lead guitar playing over to Ed Carter. And Ed would really come through, and again I would think, "Damn, Eddie, you can rock! Who knew?" I'm not saying Ed Carter was a better guitarist than Carl Wilson, but it did make you take notice.
Also in the late 1970s/early 1980s, The Beach Boys were been promoted and advertised as these great singers, providing these beautiful harmonies, and brilliant musicians. Then, you'd go to a concert and see/hear the current Mike Love (yes, even at that time), Brian Wilson, and Dennis Wilson, and think, "What happened to these guys?" You know what I mean. They were probably the worst (technically) singers and musicians on the stage.
I'm not taking a shot at the solo Brian Wilson, but from Day One of his solo career I felt that Brian was overshadowed by his band in many ways. Brian was far and away the main attraction, but he was probably the worst musician (again, technically at that time, on the piano and bass) on the stage, and there were probably a few better singers, too.
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Post by Kapitan on Jul 4, 2022 14:28:48 GMT
I think the "weakest link" phenomenon has been present in the Beach Boys' band going waaaaay back.
...
I'm not taking a shot at the solo Brian Wilson, but from Day One of his solo career I felt that Brian was overshadowed by his band in many ways. Brian was far and away the main attraction, but he was probably the worst musician (again, technically at that time, on the piano and bass) on the stage, and there were probably a few better singers, too.
I couldn't agree more. That's why I was saying earlier that if Al were going to be incorporated, it wouldn't have to mean anybody else gets the boot. (No, I am not saying it's likely to happen, or that either side wants it. But it came up in conversation.) Al, like the others, just isn't essential to the production. If he didn't play a note, it wouldn't matter. His presence is largely visual, and of course that familiar voice lends the idea of authenticity. But if you told me we needed somebody to perform on guitar, lead vocals, and harmony vocals straight through on every song, hitting every note and word, and I could have either Al or Probyn, the late Nick, a healthy Jeff, or Scott Totten? Let's just say Al would be down that list.
And Brian has always been more about the visuals, the experience, the awe. He has always, without question, been the weakest link as a performer in his band whether instrumentally or vocally. Not even close. It's not to insult him, it's not to be ignorant of what got him there and why it's amazing to see him at all, etc., it's just real life.
To that main point, at least since the 70s, the band increasingly handed off the heavy lifting to sidemen. Frankly they did the same thing on record, going from mostly augmenting the band themselves to replacing the band themselves (instrumentally and to some degree even vocally). I mean, look at the credits of KTSA!
As we've seen with Brian through the years,
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Post by lonelysummer on Jul 4, 2022 19:00:01 GMT
I think the "weakest link" phenomenon has been present in the Beach Boys' band going waaaaay back. I remember in the late 1970s/early 1980s, Bobby Figueroa standing next to Dennis Wilson, playing some percussion instrument and providing some drum fills. Then, when Dennis would make his way over to the piano or leave the stage, Bobby would take over on drums and it was like "Whoa!". It's not that Bobby was showing up Dennis but his drumming was obviously superior.
Also, circa 1980, Carl was turning some of the lead guitar playing over to Ed Carter. And Ed would really come through, and again I would think, "Damn, Eddie, you can rock! Who knew?" I'm not saying Ed Carter was a better guitarist than Carl Wilson, but it did make you take notice.
Also in the late 1970s/early 1980s, The Beach Boys were been promoted and advertised as these great singers, providing these beautiful harmonies, and brilliant musicians. Then, you'd go to a concert and see/hear the current Mike Love (yes, even at that time), Brian Wilson, and Dennis Wilson, and think, "What happened to these guys?" You know what I mean. They were probably the worst (technically) singers and musicians on the stage.
I'm not taking a shot at the solo Brian Wilson, but from Day One of his solo career I felt that Brian was overshadowed by his band in many ways. Brian was far and away the main attraction, but he was probably the worst musician (again, technically at that time, on the piano and bass) on the stage, and there were probably a few better singers, too.
This just points out to me again what a rock Carl Wilson was for the band in those years. He was the one real Beach Boy who remained integral to the sound not only as a singer but as a musician. It was pretty clear to me in the post-Dennis years, that Al and Bruce weren't really contributing anything instrumentally; but Carl's guitar playing was still an important part of the mix. And I never heard Carl have a bad day as a singer; I'm not being hypercritical of the others, I'm a singer, and we all have our off days - except Carl. I watched the Grand Ol Opry clip, and yes, Mike's voice has aged; but he's still singing the songs in the original keys. A lot of singers have to drop them down a notch or two (I've noticed this with CSN/CSNY since at least the 90's); Burton Cummings has dropped most his songs down a tone, or in the case of Stand Tall, several tones (the record was in G; now he sings it in E - and yeah, I can't sing it in G, either!). Mike has a really great band, and I admire those guys more as time goes on.
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Emdeeh
Pacific Coast Highway
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Post by Emdeeh on Jul 5, 2022 0:21:55 GMT
But if you told me we needed somebody to perform on guitar, lead vocals, and harmony vocals straight through on every song, hitting every note and word, and I could have either Al or Probyn, the late Nick, a healthy Jeff, or Scott Totten? Let's just say Al would be down that list. I beg to differ -- I think Al's voice in the harmonies is absolutely essential to having authentic-sounding BB harmonies. (This is to my ears, YMMV.) The harmonies may sound good when others are singing them, but Al's voice in the mix anchors the BB sound.
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Post by kds on Jul 5, 2022 0:28:01 GMT
I don't think Mike's vocals were necessarily "bad" at the Opry show, but I feel like his vocals have sounded increasingly strained over the last few years, and that performance was just another example
Its understandable, the guy's 81 and does more shows in a year than some of his peers do in half a decade.
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Post by Kapitan on Jul 5, 2022 0:42:42 GMT
But if you told me we needed somebody to perform on guitar, lead vocals, and harmony vocals straight through on every song, hitting every note and word, and I could have either Al or Probyn, the late Nick, a healthy Jeff, or Scott Totten? Let's just say Al would be down that list. I beg to differ -- I think Al's voice in the harmonies is absolutely essential to having authentic-sounding BB harmonies. (This is to my ears, YMMV.) The harmonies may sound good when others are singing them, but Al's voice in the mix anchors the BB sound. What you describe is what I mean when I say things like "authenticity." But in terms of whom I'd trust to not only hit every vocal part but also be trusted instrumentally? That's what I'm talking about, as opposed to "just" having a voice we recognize as original.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2022 5:16:17 GMT
Sheriff John Stone , you didn't call me out, but I was criticizing his voice. So I'll reply to that: and I don't really disagree with you. I wasn't so much saying Mike was newly awful, an in fact I didn't even think he was awful at all (and said so, specifically). It just stood out to me that with that great sounding group, he was a (the?) musical weak link. And weak is exactly the word: Murry Wilson is shouting up from below, "come on, ya got any guts?"
I'm 100% convinced that live performances often sound better because we're in the moment. The clarity of hindsight--or really the clarity of tape, once any adrenaline or serotonin or whatever has worn off--is quite a reality check. Or cold shower.
As Brian has been for almost ten years. And yes, I've lost count of the gigs - BB related or otherwise - that I've been to, thought amazing then either saw the live broadcast or listened to a video and thought "oh...". It's the "ya had to be there" syndrome. The best one that wasn't ? Stevie Wonder when he did the whole Songs In The Key of Life album. That may have been the best single show I've ever been to.
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Post by Kapitan on Jul 5, 2022 11:19:07 GMT
As Brian has been for almost ten years. And yes, I've lost count of the gigs - BB related or otherwise - that I've been to, thought amazing then either saw the live broadcast or listened to a video and thought "oh...". It's the "ya had to be there" syndrome. The best one that wasn't ? Stevie Wonder when he did the whole Songs In The Key of Life album. That may have been the best single show I've ever been to. I'd put that closer to 24 years or so, myself.
I also saw a show on the SITKOL tour. It really was fantastic.
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Post by The Cincinnati Kid on Jul 5, 2022 14:59:15 GMT
The full RAH show was posted:
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2022 18:26:04 GMT
So we never got something like this for the Beach Boys reunions show of the 50th in the Royal Albert Hall right? One of those some of the final and some of the best shows and there's something in the works to actually have them produce? Again I guess we're going back to the Japanese pseudo bootleg for the best record of that concert tour. So frustrating.
Again, I'm going to see them here in LA on the 7th and I'm just committing to enjoying the music and keeping my eyes on Mike and Bruce for their contributions. At this point seem to Beach Boys in their 80s is got to be at own reward instead of holding out for the reunions of all five. Bit of a necessary transition and capitulation to reality for me and maybe for some of you as well.
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Post by kds on Jul 5, 2022 18:32:13 GMT
So we never got something like this for the Beach Boys reunions show of the 50th in the Royal Albert Hall right? One of those some of the final and some of the best shows and there's something in the works to actually have them produce? Again I guess we're going back to the Japanese pseudo bootleg for the best record of that concert tour. So frustrating. Again, I'm going to see them here in LA on the 7th and I'm just committing to enjoying the music and keeping my eyes on Mike and Bruce for their contributions. At this point seem to Beach Boys in their 80s is got to be at own reward instead of holding out for the reunions of all five. Bit of a necessary transition and capitulation to reality for me and maybe for some of you as well. This is just an audience recording, and there are plenty of those out there from the C50 Tour. I'm not sure if there's one from the RAH show, but I know there's one from the final date at Wembley Arena. I will agree that it's frustrating that we never got a proper concert film from C50, outside of the 21 song DVD / BluRay and the 33 song Japan concert that got a gray area release.
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Post by The Cincinnati Kid on Jul 5, 2022 18:55:55 GMT
So we never got something like this for the Beach Boys reunions show of the 50th in the Royal Albert Hall right? One of those some of the final and some of the best shows and there's something in the works to actually have them produce? Again I guess we're going back to the Japanese pseudo bootleg for the best record of that concert tour. So frustrating. Again, I'm going to see them here in LA on the 7th and I'm just committing to enjoying the music and keeping my eyes on Mike and Bruce for their contributions. At this point seem to Beach Boys in their 80s is got to be at own reward instead of holding out for the reunions of all five. Bit of a necessary transition and capitulation to reality for me and maybe for some of you as well. This is just an audience recording, and there are plenty of those out there from the C50 Tour. I'm not sure if there's one from the RAH show, but I know there's one from the final date at Wembley Arena. I will agree that it's frustrating that we never got a proper concert film from C50, outside of the 21 song DVD / BluRay and the 33 song Japan concert that got a gray area release. I seem to remember that something may have actually been planned for release from the Red Rocks show, but fell through for whatever reason. Anyone else remember that?
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Post by kds on Jul 5, 2022 18:59:51 GMT
This is just an audience recording, and there are plenty of those out there from the C50 Tour. I'm not sure if there's one from the RAH show, but I know there's one from the final date at Wembley Arena. I will agree that it's frustrating that we never got a proper concert film from C50, outside of the 21 song DVD / BluRay and the 33 song Japan concert that got a gray area release. I seem to remember that something may have actually been planned for release from the Red Rocks show, but fell through for whatever reason. Anyone else remember that? I don't remember if it was Red Rocks, but I recall there was a PBS pledge drive where donors were to get a yet to be released Beach Boys live DVD. I also thought I read, probably on one of the old forums, that the Royal Albert Hall show from 2012 was supposedly filmed for an eventual release. Although, I have to believe if that show were filmed, something would've leaked by now.
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Post by Kapitan on Jul 7, 2022 12:14:26 GMT
Possibly trying to even out their good deed with a bad one, they are also giving away free digital downloads of Mike's "new" album, 12 Sides of Summer (released in 2019).
Joking aside, it is a nice gesture by the group.
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