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Post by carllove on Jun 23, 2022 0:55:03 GMT
Here is the band on stage.
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Post by lonelysummer on Jun 23, 2022 7:43:26 GMT
In sports, the team tells you when to hang it up. They release you. If you aren't productive anymore, they don't want you on the team anymore, no matter how great you were in your prime. If you're a lifetime .300 hitter that is struggling to hit .200, your days are numbered. In music, I guess it's up to the artist to decide when it's time to quit. I heard audio of Chuck Berry's last show at Blueberry Hill, 2014, and it was awful. He couldn't remember lyrics to his own songs, and no matter how hard he tried, he couldn't get his guitar to do what he wanted it to do. He decided that night was the end. I guess that points out a big difference between a Chuck Berry concert and Brian Wilson live. 90% of Chuck's show was Chuck - his songs, his singing, playing, showmanship. For Brian, all he has to do is show up, his band does most of the work. In a way, it's a bit like the Beach Boys became in the later 70's/early 80's. As Carl said "we can put on a real turkey of a set, and people will come backstage saying 'that's greatest concert i've ever seen!'" I just hope the people buying the tickets know what to expect.
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Post by kds on Jun 23, 2022 12:24:40 GMT
I've been looking at Brian's setlists on Setlist.fm.
It's interesting that the first show of the tour featured Surfin Safari, which had apparently never been played by Brian's band, but the show was seemingly dropped after that first show.
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 27, 2022 12:40:37 GMT
Here is one I don't think I've seen shared: the BW band singers joining Chicago for "Wishing You Were Here."
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 27, 2022 12:52:30 GMT
Thank you for sharing that video. "Wishing You Were Here" is one of my favorite Chicago songs. I saw Chicago touring with The Beach Boys about three or four times. They always put on a great show. But, it appears that Chicago is now "one of those groups", a legacy act with very little original members. In watching that video, I only see Robert Lamm and James Pankow. Was Lee Loughnane there? In the past I was fortunate to see Loughnane, Walt Parazaider, Bill Champlin, and Jason Scheff (who was with Chicago for 31 years). I wish I would've seen Peter Cetera and, obviously, Terry Kath.
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Post by kds on Jun 27, 2022 13:04:55 GMT
And, here's the horn section from Chicago, playing on Darlin' during Brian's set in Colorado.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 30, 2022 18:29:46 GMT
Regardless of what Brian wants, or says he wants, I'm asking those who are in charge of Brian's health to please re-evaluate what is happening here. This is not right, and frankly, I'm surprised there isn't more outrage.
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Post by lonelysummer on Jun 30, 2022 18:35:22 GMT
Regardless of what Brian wants, or says he wants, I'm asking those who are in charge of Brian's health to please re-evaluate what is happening here. This is not right, and frankly, I'm surprised there isn't more outrage.
At first I thought, "that's not a bad performance"...then the camera revealed it wasn't Brian singing! Brian might be saying he wants to tour - for fear of what the alternative is. That is not a happy man up there. No, I don't know him personally, I don't know any of these people...but I'm not convinced.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 30, 2022 18:50:57 GMT
Regardless of what Brian wants, or says he wants, I'm asking those who are in charge of Brian's health to please re-evaluate what is happening here. This is not right, and frankly, I'm surprised there isn't more outrage.
At first I thought, "that's not a bad performance"...then the camera revealed it wasn't Brian singing! Brian might be saying he wants to tour - for fear of what the alternative is. That is not a happy man up there. No, I don't know him personally, I don't know any of these people...but I'm not convinced. This has now gone beyond "is he happy". Of course he's not. That's not even the issue anymore. It's getting close to - if it isn't already - this man being taken advantage of. Why is he being literally wheeled out there and being put on display? I'm starting to become disappointed in the band. They're just playing along (literally) like nothing is wrong. Look at Al at the 1:13 mark. It's like the band playing on the Titanic. I keeping thinking somebody from the band will step forward and put an end to this. How can they be pleased with this...situation? Are they proud with what they're doing?
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 30, 2022 21:11:02 GMT
Regardless of what Brian wants, or says he wants, I'm asking those who are in charge of Brian's health to please re-evaluate what is happening here. This is not right, and frankly, I'm surprised there isn't more outrage.
At first I thought, "that's not a bad performance"...then the camera revealed it wasn't Brian singing! Brian might be saying he wants to tour - for fear of what the alternative is. That is not a happy man up there. No, I don't know him personally, I don't know any of these people...but I'm not convinced. It's not quite true that he's not singing: he sings basically everything up to the break, with Matt doubling most of the time. It's actually more than he has sung in some shows of this tour, where he hands the whole thing off. I don't really see what's different here than the past few years of shows: Brian sings less and less.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 30, 2022 21:32:53 GMT
At first I thought, "that's not a bad performance"...then the camera revealed it wasn't Brian singing! Brian might be saying he wants to tour - for fear of what the alternative is. That is not a happy man up there. No, I don't know him personally, I don't know any of these people...but I'm not convinced. It's not quite true that he's not singing: he sings basically everything up to the break, with Matt doubling most of the time. It's actually more than he has sung in some shows of this tour, where he hands the whole thing off. I don't really see what's different here than the past few years of shows: Brian sings less and less. It's not just that he's singing less and less songs, he's singing less and less of the actual song being played. He'll start a song, then shut down completely for the rest of the song. Or, he'll start a song, zone out for awhile, and then come back in...whenever. And, this is different than him simply missing cues. Way different. I want to say that this isn't fair to the band or the audience, but that'll get me a lot of disagreement. I'll just say again that this isn't right. Brian always had low or lower standards as a live performer. It now appears that he has no standards. Come on, every performer has to have some standards, even someone like Brian Wilson, even with his challenges.
EDIT: I will try not to harp on this issue so much. It's just that seeing these YouTube videos sets me off. Maybe I should refrain from watching them.
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 30, 2022 23:46:21 GMT
Opinions are fair game. We can each think whatever we want about those shows. We can decide whether we'd pay for them, and we can speculate as to the band members' and management's feelings about them.
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Post by B.E. on Jul 1, 2022 1:20:48 GMT
Regardless of what Brian wants, or says he wants, I'm asking those who are in charge of Brian's health to please re-evaluate what is happening here. I don't take issue with this position. This is not right, and frankly, I'm surprised there isn't more outrage. I was wondering all day what this might mean. For some reason, I thought perhaps they started having Brian lip-synch (and he wasn't even pretending to sing). That would have been bad, and perhaps worthy of outrage. But, I honestly didn't notice anything out of the ordinary here. Brian sang the first half of the song (with some doubling), then Matt the second half. And it looked planned. I've seen videos before where Brian would stop singing mid verse, or even mid line, and others had to awkwardly jump in. I didn't see that here. I'm not saying it's ideal, or that you shouldn't feel uncomfortable or unsatisfied or whatever, but this is just who Brian is as a performer. And has been for years. That is not a happy man up there. No, I don't know him personally, I don't know any of these people...but I'm not convinced. No, he's not a happy man. I think that's well documented and understood. That's not to say that he doesn't have his moments of joy and happiness, including while on the road and, yes, even onstage, but overall? No. My position on why Brian tours has more to do with self-worth and having a career. (But, it's not limited to that.) This has now gone beyond "is he happy". Of course he's not. That's not even the issue anymore. It's getting close to - if it isn't already - this man being taken advantage of. I think it's highly, highly unlikely that he's being taken advantage of by his family, long-time friends and bandmates, and being neglected by his doctors. That said, I completely understand all concern for Brian's well-being, and pondering these issues. Obviously, things like that happen in this world. Based on what we know, though, I just don't think that's the case here. It's a sad situation, and I think it's a particularly hard one to understand due to Brian's condition. How many of us can relate and understand him, really? And I don't mean his music. I imagine his own family and doctors struggle mightily to do so. Why is he being literally wheeled out there and being put on display? Brian's physical condition apparently requires it. Should people be forced to retire on that account? I don't think so. I keeping thinking somebody from the band will step forward and put an end to this. How can they be pleased with this...situation? Are they proud with what they're doing? 1) Maybe they don't think it's their place to? 2) Actually, I can imagine a scenario where they feel proud of what they're doing and what they've done. Would I feel comfortable, or simply want, to be in his band? No. But that's just me. It's not just that he's singing less and less songs, he's singing less and less of the actual song being played. He'll start a song, then shut down completely for the rest of the song. Or, he'll start a song, zone out for awhile, and then come back in...whenever. And, this is different than him simply missing cues. Way different. I never thought he was "missing cues", as if he doesn't know his music or the structure of the songs. I thought he's always struggled...always been on and off... sometimes shutting down, or zoning out, or whatever the case may be. So, I'm not sure there's anything different here. But I think it's very clear that he's gotten progressively worse over the last 10 years (which, frankly, is to be expected considering his age and health). (That said, my perceptions could be wrong, because I haven't seen him perform nearly as much as most of you probably have). I want to say that this isn't fair to the band or the audience, but that'll get me a lot of disagreement. I'll just say again that this isn't right. Brian always had low or lower standards as a live performer. It now appears that he has no standards. Come on, every performer has to have some standards, even someone like Brian Wilson, even with his challenges. You can say that this isn't fair to the band or audience, and, in a sense, I think you'd be right...but in another (greater) sense I think you'd be wrong. Honestly, the person I think this is most unfair to is Brian. He's unwell. And it's very sad. Remember that video of Paul and Bruce performing "Glory Days" you posted? I felt so much joy watching that. But, for a brief moment, I thought of Brian. And I felt really sad because I don't think Brian's capable of sharing a moment like that. SJS, your last point there reminds me of what I suspect is the main difference between our perspectives on Brian. I know you acknowledge his mental health issues, struggles, and challenges. You often state them and discuss them. But, I often get the sense that you also treat him as if he were a regular guy...like any one us, or any one of his peers. And, honestly, I get that. I think it's sort of in our nature to do that. To treat people equally. But, Brian's not like us or, quite possibly, anyone else. In my opinion, we can't treat him the same way. And can't expect the same things. We can hardly even understand him in some ways. I think I've just accepted that in ways you haven't, I guess. (Right or wrong. I'm just one fan. And I haven't been a fan as long as you. I respect that.) EDIT: I will try not to harp on this issue so much. It's just that seeing these YouTube videos sets me off. Maybe I should refrain from watching them. Perhaps you should. Seriously. I very nearly didn't watch that video you posted because I didn't want to feel uncomfortable, or upset, or just down. I've seen many videos over the years of his performing, but I doubt I've seen as much as many of you. In recent years, I largely avoid them, unless there's discussion around a particularly strong performance. I've also never seen Brian live. A large part of that was not wanting to see him on an off night. (I'm also just not a big concertgoer, but that was an issue for me.)
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Post by carllove on Jul 1, 2022 1:32:45 GMT
David Leaf said that Brian wants to tour, and I believe him. I wasn’t sure after seeing Brian live on his Birthday, but if people close to Brian who care care about him say that, I am certain they are more aware of the situation than I am. It made me feel better about seeing him live. Still - Unless Blondie is there - I probably won’t go see Brian again.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jul 1, 2022 1:43:25 GMT
Great, great post, B.E., and thank you for your thoughts.
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