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Post by carllove on Jun 22, 2022 16:56:14 GMT
When you think about it, even when Brian was younger, he never looked that comfortable on stage. As long as folks know what they are getting with a Brian Wilson concert, it’s fine that he tours. I’m glad to have had the opportunity to see him in person. I won’t forget it. It did make me a bit sad, seeing him look so fragile, but there was still some magic in there, in his vocals to God Only Knows.
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 22, 2022 17:07:09 GMT
Without question, Brian never--at least since the mid-60s--looked comfortable on stage. Even when he was more energetic, it looked manic ('70s) or drugged-robotic ('80s). But he certainly looks far worse now than he did 15-20 years ago (as you would expect).
You said the magic words, "as long as people know what they are getting." That's what it all comes down to. And for his own sake, if he still enjoys it, then he's more than welcome to keep doing it. I'm not sure I'd want to see him again ... though without him scheduled to be here anyway, that's a moot point at the moment. But I've been able to see him half a dozen times.
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Post by kds on Jun 22, 2022 17:14:09 GMT
I feel like most concert goers know the deal with Brian. I can't recall ever hearing somebody say a cross word about a show on the way out, even when he might not have been at his best.
My wife and I were actually talking about Brian over the weekend, and she mentioned she wouldn't mind seeing him one more time. Personally, I'd be a little reluctant, especially if he's still doing the "Greatest Hits" tour. I'm not sure when that would be since he has no local shows scheduled for 2022, but if recent history (2020 aside) is any indication, that will probably change either later this year, or sometime in 2023.
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Post by carllove on Jun 22, 2022 17:19:10 GMT
Without question, Brian never--at least since the mid-60s--looked comfortable on stage. Even when he was more energetic, it looked manic ('70s) or drugged-robotic ('80s). But he certainly looks far worse now than he did 15-20 years ago (as you would expect).
You said the magic words, "as long as people know what they are getting." That's what it all comes down to. And for his own sake, if he still enjoys it, then he's more than welcome to keep doing it. I'm not sure I'd want to see him again ... though without him scheduled to be here anyway, that's a moot point at the moment. But I've been able to see him half a dozen times.
You are lucky to have seen him so many times. I’m glad I’ve had my one time, but unless Blondie is there, I wouldn’t want to go see Brian again. I’ve been thinking about going to see Mike’s band again when The Beach Boys come to Lawrence. I had a blast at The Kaufman Center performance this year.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 22, 2022 18:02:47 GMT
I don't think ticket sales should be a determining factor in Brian's continuing to tour.
An individual with a physical, intellectual, or emotional disability should have the right to choose how they want to lead their life. They absolutely have the right to choose the activities that will help them achieve a happy and fulfilling life. However, there also have to be individuals in place - a guardian, spouse, children, doctors, social workers, etc. - to monitor those activities to make sure they are serving their intended purpose. There should be positive results. When those chosen activities stop being positive, it's time to make changes or "shift gears" if you will, and other activities should be considered.
I'm just a fan, an outsider, a casual observer, someone who has no intimate knowledge of Brian Wilson's treatment plan. I don't claim to know what is best for Brian Wilson (well, actually I do make suggestions from time to time on this forum ), but, at this point, I can't see what benefits Brian Wilson is deriving from performing rock and roll concerts. I'm not talking about the fans, I'm just talking about Brian, and I'm just talking about his actual performing. Not only is it sad to see and hear, but it almost looks like abuse. I think it would've been a good idea to have a final "farewell tour" either a few years ago...or now. That way the fans, including those who just want to see Brian or experience a Brian Wilson concert before he retires, would get that opportunity.
I know my opinions are not popular in some circles, in many circles actually, but I can't help seeing these videos of Brian in concert and thinking that something is wrong here, that something isn't right with continuing these...shows. It's just the way I feel.
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Post by lonelysummer on Jun 22, 2022 18:49:50 GMT
I don't think ticket sales should be a determining factor in Brian's continuing to tour.
An individual with a physical, intellectual, or emotional disability should have the right to choose how they want to lead their life. They absolutely have the right to choose the activities that will help them achieve a happy and fulfilling life. However, there also have to be individuals in place - a guardian, spouse, children, doctors, social workers, etc. - to monitor those activities to make sure they are serving their intended purpose. There should be positive results. When those chosen activities stop being positive, it's time to make changes or "shift gears" if you will, and other activities should be considered.
I'm just a fan, an outsider, a casual observer, someone who has no intimate knowledge of Brian Wilson's treatment plan. I don't claim to know what is best for Brian Wilson (well, actually I do make suggestions from time to time on this forum ), but, at this point, I can't see what benefits Brian Wilson is deriving from performing rock and roll concerts. I'm not talking about the fans, I'm just talking about Brian, and I'm just talking about his actual performing. Not only is it sad to see and hear, but it almost looks like abuse. I think it would've been a good idea to have a final "farewell tour" either a few years ago...or now. That way the fans, including those who just want to see Brian or experience a Brian Wilson concert before he retires, would get that opportunity.
I know my opinions are not popular in some circles, in many circles actually, but I can't help seeing these videos of Brian in concert and thinking that something is wrong here, that something isn't right with continuing these...shows. It's just the way I feel.
You said it perfectly. The only answer I can come up with is that the people around Brian are wearing blinders. Sometimes you don't see a person falling apart right in front of you. I certainly didn't see it with my dad. It was mom we were worried about. Instead, it was dad that died first. If I had it to do over again, I would get in his face about going to a doctor. I would go down to the hospital and get in the face of the doctors there. "You're not sending him back home now! There is something seriously wrong with this man!" I thought he was going to live forever.
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 22, 2022 19:01:45 GMT
Respectfully, I disagree with you guys. If Brian's team--family, management, and doctors--think it's safe for him to be out there, and he wants to be out there, he should be out there. How he looks to us is not quite irrelevant, but it's almost irrelevant. We were just talking in the LPR doc thread about why he seems to want to tour. Whatever we might think about those reasons, he seems to have those reasons.
People who find seeing him like that disconcerting have every right to that opinion, and every right not to go. People who think his singing is subpar have every right to that opinion, and every right not to go. People who don't want to see anyone who sits in a chair, or has gray hair, or is a male, have every right to those opinions, and every right not to go. But if he wants to go out on tour, and it's deemed safe by the people who would know--not the people who would guess from the outside looking in--then he has every right to go out on tour. Even if he collapses and dies on stage.
lonelysummer, I don't think anyone is wearing blinders. I'm sure everyone involved sees what you see (and we see), only much more so. The question isn't whether Brian is young and spry, or even especially healthy. It's whether staying home is better than touring. He, and they, continue to make that informed decision; we continue our less informed speculation based on our preferences, our life experiences, etc.
It reminds me of the seemingly very common sentiment among the elderly: "I'd rather die at home than in a safer nursing home." And that's only if touring IS less safe for him somehow. He deserves the right to live his later life as he sees fit.
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Post by kds on Jun 22, 2022 19:08:34 GMT
Respectfully, I disagree with you guys. If Brian's team--family, management, and doctors--think it's safe for him to be out there, and he wants to be out there, he should be out there. How he looks to us is not quite irrelevant, but it's almost irrelevant. We were just talking in the LPR doc thread about why he seems to want to tour. Whatever we might think about those reasons, he seems to have those reasons.
People who find seeing him like that disconcerting have every right to that opinion, and every right not to go. People who think his singing is subpar have every right to that opinion, and every right not to go. People who don't want to see anyone who sits in a chair, or has gray hair, or is a male, have every right to those opinions, and every right not to go. But if he wants to go out on tour, and it's deemed safe by the people who would know--not the people who would guess from the outside looking in--then he has every right to go out on tour. Even if he collapses and dies on stage.
lonelysummer , I don't think anyone is wearing blinders. I'm sure everyone involved sees what you see (and we see), only much more so. The question isn't whether Brian is young and spry, or even especially healthy. It's whether staying home is better than touring. He, and they, continue to make that informed decision; we continue our less informed speculation based on our preferences, our life experiences, etc.
It reminds me of the seemingly very common sentiment among the elderly: "I'd rather die at home than in a safer nursing home." And that's only if touring IS less safe for him somehow. He deserves the right to live his later life as he sees fit.
I tend to agree here. Especially, when you consider that there's really no particular reason for Brian Wilson to keep touring these days. He's proven he can be a live performer. He took Pet Sounds and Smile on the road. He seemingly no longer has any new music to promote. He's got plenty of money. That leads me to believe that there's a want-to there.
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 22, 2022 19:12:43 GMT
I also just want to emphasize, anyone who reads what I write knows I'm not a blind worshipper type. I've already said I'm unlikely to go see him again. I've already said his singing has gone from suspect (throughout his entire solo career as a touring artist, with highs and lows in that "suspect" territory) to seemingly pretty bad most of the time. My ears and eyes work. The man doesn't walk on water, even if he's among my absolute musical heroes.
It's the principle of it all for me. I get uncomfortable talking about "should" for other people.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 22, 2022 19:27:57 GMT
There are instances where the family, management, and yes, even doctors, are wrong, or they stay with certain "activities" too long. And, you absolutely can tell if something is wrong or not working by looking at or observing an individual - including their actions on a rock & roll stage. Of course it's not the only way to determine a person's feelings, but observing the individual's actions - and facial expressions or lack of - is one of the most important and reliable ways.
I will ask, ask specifically what benefits Brian Wilson is experiencing by performing concerts? I would like to know. And, I'm referring to just the performing, not the airplane flights, the limo rides, the hotel stays, the soundchecks, and the pre- and post-concert activities. Just the actual performing.
And, again, the fact there are X number of fans willing to buy tickets to come and see Brian Wilson should have nothing to do with live performing being approved as a beneficial activity.
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Post by kds on Jun 22, 2022 19:33:34 GMT
There are instances where the family, management, and yes, even doctors, are wrong, or they stay with certain "activities" too long. And, you absolutely can tell if something is wrong or not working by looking at or observing an individual - including their actions on a rock & roll stage. Of course it's not the only way to determine a person's feelings, but observing the individual's actions - and facial expressions or lack of - is one of the most important and reliable ways.
I will ask, ask specifically what benefits Brian Wilson is experiencing by performing concerts? I would like to know. And, I'm referring to just the performing, not the airplane flights, the limo rides, the hotel stays, the soundchecks, and the pre- and post-concert activities. Just the actual performing.
And, again, the fact there are X number of fans willing to buy tickets to come and see Brian Wilson should have nothing to do with live performing being approved as a beneficial activity. Without having access to Brian Wilson, I really don't think we can accurately say something is "wrong" based on a 20 song concert set, or smart phone videos of said concert set. I realize that also disqualified us from stating the benefits, but I'd suspect it's more about being active, or having a routine that's beneficial. Maybe it's just sitting there being surrounded by the music he created that has a benefit. And, granted, he doesn't look great on stage now, but as has been noted prior on this thread, when has Brian ever really looked comfortable onstage?
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 22, 2022 19:43:32 GMT
There are instances where the family, management, and yes, even doctors, are wrong, or they stay with certain "activities" too long. And, you absolutely can tell if something is wrong or not working by looking at or observing an individual - including their actions on a rock & roll stage. Of course it's not the only way to determine a person's feelings, but observing the individual's actions - and facial expressions or lack of - is one of the most important and reliable ways.
I will ask, ask specifically what benefits Brian Wilson is experiencing by performing concerts? I would like to know. And, I'm referring to just the performing, not the airplane flights, the limo rides, the hotel stays, the soundchecks, and the pre- and post-concert activities. Just the actual performing.
And, again, the fact there are X number of fans willing to buy tickets to come and see Brian Wilson should have nothing to do with live performing being approved as a beneficial activity. Without having access to Brian Wilson, I really don't think we can accurately say something is "wrong" based on a 20 song concert set, or smart phone videos of said concert set. I realize that also disqualified us from stating the benefits, but I'd suspect it's more about being active, or having a routine that's beneficial. Maybe it's just sitting there being surrounded by the music he created that has a benefit. And, granted, he doesn't look great on stage now, but as has been noted prior on this thread, when has Brian ever really looked comfortable onstage? I agree that Brian has not looked comfortable on stage since 1964, but what I am seeing now - whether it's from a smart phone or whatever - is someone who is not just uncomfortable on a stage, but someone who is seriously uncomfortable, medically uncomfortable. And, I'm going to stop at that because we're getting into an area that I don't want to get any further into, or speculate about.
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 22, 2022 19:44:38 GMT
And, again, the fact there are X number of fans willing to buy tickets to come and see Brian Wilson should have nothing to do with live performing being approved as a beneficial activity. I do agree with you 100% on that.
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Post by kds on Jun 22, 2022 19:46:32 GMT
Without having access to Brian Wilson, I really don't think we can accurately say something is "wrong" based on a 20 song concert set, or smart phone videos of said concert set. I realize that also disqualified us from stating the benefits, but I'd suspect it's more about being active, or having a routine that's beneficial. Maybe it's just sitting there being surrounded by the music he created that has a benefit. And, granted, he doesn't look great on stage now, but as has been noted prior on this thread, when has Brian ever really looked comfortable onstage? I agree that Brian has not looked comfortable on stage since 1964, but what I am seeing now - whether it's from a smart phone or whatever - is someone who is not just uncomfortable on a stage, but someone who is seriously uncomfortable, medically uncomfortable. And, I'm going to stop at that because we're getting into an area that I don't want to get any further into, or speculate about. That's fine. I will just respectfully agree to disagree.
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Post by carllove on Jun 23, 2022 0:52:38 GMT
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