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Post by kds on Jul 29, 2021 14:38:32 GMT
I imagine one day we'll look back on the 2010's faux Americana craze the same way we do with late 90s swing. That's an interesting thought/question: which trends do we just look at as the way it was versus the ones we look at with embarrassment, and why the difference?
My initial guess is, it's more about each individual act than the trend overall. It's easier to look back with respect at the acts that seemed to love that style, who were good at it, and who approached it with a kind of zeal. Whereas you can often see which artists were just doing the popular style because that was the popular style, or which acts were label-created entities "scientifically designed" to fill a market niche, and those are the ones it's hard not to mock.
A generous interpretation of the 90s swing and ska trends might be that some musicians were looking for ways to inject some fun into a somewhat dark and dour music scene.
I think it has a lot to do with personal taste too. For some music fans, trends like disco and glam metal are seen as embarrassing. I do something there's something to be said for the swing and ska, and the frosted tip pop rock bands for trying to interject some fun into the decade. But, I think I'd have liked it more if the music were good (IMO).
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Post by Kapitan on Jul 29, 2021 14:48:23 GMT
Absolutely. I think it is one of those situations where a person can understand and even respect the effort without actually liking it or even valuing it much. (I'm trying to be better about doing that rather than my (human?) default of "I don't like that, it SUCKS!")
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Post by kds on Jul 29, 2021 14:51:01 GMT
Absolutely. I think it is one of those situations where a person can understand and even respect the effort without actually liking it or even valuing it much. (I'm trying to be better about doing that rather than my (human?) default of "I don't like that, it SUCKS!") I'm trying to get better at that too. But, sometimes I can't help myself (especially some of the pop music today).
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Post by kds on Jul 29, 2021 15:25:24 GMT
Here's something about the 1990s that I'm shocked I didn't mention in this thread, but I've mentioned many times before.
Albums got too long. By the 1990s, CDs were the dominant music media. For some reason, artists felt the need to fill those CDs as much as possible. So, instead of 35-50 minute albums, the 90s gave us some 60 - 75 minute albums that really didn't warrant such a run time.
Another reason why I don't like rock in the 1990s. Even good albums by the likes of Extreme and Metallica just off the top of my head were just too long.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2021 22:55:10 GMT
I imagine one day we'll look back on the 2010's faux Americana craze the same way we do with late 90s swing. That's an interesting thought/question: which trends do we just look at as the way it was versus the ones we look at with embarrassment, and why the difference?
My initial guess is, it's more about each individual act than the trend overall. It's easier to look back with respect at the acts that seemed to love that style, who were good at it, and who approached it with a kind of zeal. Whereas you can often see which artists were just doing the popular style because that was the popular style, or which acts were label-created entities "scientifically designed" to fill a market niche, and those are the ones it's hard not to mock.
A generous interpretation of the 90s swing and ska trends might be that some musicians were looking for ways to inject some fun into a somewhat dark and dour music scene.
Interesting you mention the embarrassment factor. There were a few embarrassing, but very popular tunes from my beloved 1999 that I'd rather forget. "La Vida Loca", which I did quickly mention before, and Lou Bega's "Mambo Number 5". I'm a bit sheepish in stating that I actually thought both tunes were pretty catchy when I first heard them. Both were retro in different ways, and I'll admit, they were "happy" songs. But they got old real quick, and I'll never look back fondly on them!
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Post by Kapitan on Jul 29, 2021 23:00:36 GMT
Isn't "La Vida Loca" a Desmond Child co-write and/or co-production? (That's off the top of my head, but I know he worked with Ricky Martin around then.) If so, my god, kudos to that man: he capitalizes on disco in the late 70s with KISS, then he is a huge figure in "hair metal" in the mid-to-late '80s including huge megahits with Bon Jovi, and then has hits in the '90s in yet another genre.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2021 23:14:37 GMT
Isn't "La Vida Loca" a Desmond Child co-write and/or co-production? (That's off the top of my head, but I know he worked with Ricky Martin around then.) If so, my god, kudos to that man: he capitalizes on disco in the late 70s with KISS, then he is a huge figure in "hair metal" in the mid-to-late '80s including huge megahits with Bon Jovi, and then has hits in the '90s in yet another genre. I couldn't answer that. I don't know any background on that. Just like "Mambo #5". You got this bouncy old style dance number with some scratching and other odd instrumental stuff going on. What was up with that? And I just thought of another big fad of the times. Raves! I'd never been to one, but for one or two years every other movie had raves as part of the plot.
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Post by Kapitan on Jul 29, 2021 23:20:45 GMT
LOL, yes! And ditto! You'd see raves in movies and TV shows all the time, everybody was taking X, etc. (Andy passes out at a rave on Dawson's Creek!) Poor ol' me, I never did that, thinking they looked and sounded downright terrible. (Maybe the X helped?) I hated that entire vibe, really. Strobe lights, industrial dance or metal music... Not my thing. But you are very right, that was a big thing.
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Post by lonelysummer on Jul 30, 2021 5:20:04 GMT
There were occasional songs and bands I liked in the 90's, but they never seemed to last. I remember when my brother played Gin Blossoms New Miserable Experience for me. That album grew to be a favorite. Then we saw them do a concert at the local collage, early 1996, in support of Congratulations I'm Sorry. A short time later, they broke up. It seemed like the business no longer cared about building careers, it was all about getting a few hits of out a band, then tossing them to the curb. So I really lost interest in trying to keep up with any of the new groups. I liked a lot of the songs you guys have mentioned - the Fastball song, for example. I liked some of the female singer/songwriters. But in most cases, they were the media's darling for a year or two, and then they were off the radar. You gotta be a heavy duty fan to stick with a group when you no longer hear them on the radio, and my first loyalties were always to the classic bands of the 60's and 70's I loved. Even when radio no longer played new Beach Boys or solo songs, I still was interested enough to buy the albums. I would gladly fork over the bucks for a new Brian Wilson album, or a Kinks album without hearing it. So there has been stuff I've liked in the 90's 00's 10's..and now with a smart phone, when I hear such a song on the radio, I can look it up to find out who and what it is.
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Post by kds on Jul 30, 2021 12:55:13 GMT
That's an interesting thought/question: which trends do we just look at as the way it was versus the ones we look at with embarrassment, and why the difference?
My initial guess is, it's more about each individual act than the trend overall. It's easier to look back with respect at the acts that seemed to love that style, who were good at it, and who approached it with a kind of zeal. Whereas you can often see which artists were just doing the popular style because that was the popular style, or which acts were label-created entities "scientifically designed" to fill a market niche, and those are the ones it's hard not to mock.
A generous interpretation of the 90s swing and ska trends might be that some musicians were looking for ways to inject some fun into a somewhat dark and dour music scene.
Interesting you mention the embarrassment factor. There were a few embarrassing, but very popular tunes from my beloved 1999 that I'd rather forget. "La Vida Loca", which I did quickly mention before, and Lou Bega's "Mambo Number 5". I'm a bit sheepish in stating that I actually thought both tunes were pretty catchy when I first heard them. Both were retro in different ways, and I'll admit, they were "happy" songs. But they got old real quick, and I'll never look back fondly on them! They were undeniably catchy. "Catchy" should never be confused with "good" though. Whenever my sister would play some modern pop music, I'd ask her if she really likes it. Her response is "it's catchy."
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Post by kds on Jul 30, 2021 12:58:17 GMT
Isn't "La Vida Loca" a Desmond Child co-write and/or co-production? (That's off the top of my head, but I know he worked with Ricky Martin around then.) If so, my god, kudos to that man: he capitalizes on disco in the late 70s with KISS, then he is a huge figure in "hair metal" in the mid-to-late '80s including huge megahits with Bon Jovi, and then has hits in the '90s in yet another genre. I couldn't answer that. I don't know any background on that. Just like "Mambo #5". You got this bouncy old style dance number with some scratching and other odd instrumental stuff going on. What was up with that? And I just thought of another big fad of the times. Raves! I'd never been to one, but for one or two years every other movie had raves as part of the plot. I was today years old when I found out, but yes Desmond Child did have a hand in writing the Ricky Martin hit that kickstarted the so called "Latin explosion of 1999." We're getting a bit away from rock of the 1990s. But, I'll say this, I'll gladly take the pop music of 1999 over the pop of 2021. No question.
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Post by kds on Jul 30, 2021 13:02:01 GMT
LOL, yes! And ditto! You'd see raves in movies and TV shows all the time, everybody was taking X, etc. (Andy passes out at a rave on Dawson's Creek!) Poor ol' me, I never did that, thinking they looked and sounded downright terrible. (Maybe the X helped?) I hated that entire vibe, really. Strobe lights, industrial dance or metal music... Not my thing. But you are very right, that was a big thing. I never went to a rave, but I did go to a couple clubs in my early 20s (granted this was the early 00s, but still). That's what you're supposed to do at that age, right? No, I fucking hated every minute it. Having to scream to order an overpriced drink. The godawful techno, electro, house, music. The douche-y guys dry humping girls dressed like harlots. I hated every thing about that scene with a passion. Even as a much younger man, I always preferred a more chilled out bar.
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Post by kds on Jul 30, 2021 13:07:16 GMT
There were occasional songs and bands I liked in the 90's, but they never seemed to last. I remember when my brother played Gin Blossoms New Miserable Experience for me. That album grew to be a favorite. Then we saw them do a concert at the local collage, early 1996, in support of Congratulations I'm Sorry. A short time later, they broke up. It seemed like the business no longer cared about building careers, it was all about getting a few hits of out a band, then tossing them to the curb. So I really lost interest in trying to keep up with any of the new groups. I liked a lot of the songs you guys have mentioned - the Fastball song, for example. I liked some of the female singer/songwriters. But in most cases, they were the media's darling for a year or two, and then they were off the radar. You gotta be a heavy duty fan to stick with a group when you no longer hear them on the radio, and my first loyalties were always to the classic bands of the 60's and 70's I loved. Even when radio no longer played new Beach Boys or solo songs, I still was interested enough to buy the albums. I would gladly fork over the bucks for a new Brian Wilson album, or a Kinks album without hearing it. So there has been stuff I've liked in the 90's 00's 10's..and now with a smart phone, when I hear such a song on the radio, I can look it up to find out who and what it is. I feel like the 1990s was really the beginning of when artistry started to fade. Granted, since the beginning, music has always been a business. I remember listening to Stern back in the late 90s, and they were playing snippets from the top five singles of the time, and Howard said "these all sound like Coca Cola commercials." And, he's right, that's kind of what Top 40 has devolved into, three minute jingles. I mentioned the homogenization starting in the 90s, and it rings true. If you're a rock, country, or rap artist, and you can't cross over into the pop world, you'd better have a back up plan or get used to playing clubs your whole career.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2021 23:16:02 GMT
LOL, yes! And ditto! You'd see raves in movies and TV shows all the time, everybody was taking X, etc. (Andy passes out at a rave on Dawson's Creek!) Poor ol' me, I never did that, thinking they looked and sounded downright terrible. (Maybe the X helped?) I hated that entire vibe, really. Strobe lights, industrial dance or metal music... Not my thing. But you are very right, that was a big thing. There's a movie that came out in 98 or 99 that addresses that very thing. It's called "Go" and it has an ensemble of well known actors in their early days (including a teen aged Katie Holmes and an awkwardly paranoid Mellissa McCarthy). The film centers around a group of "kids" looking to score some X to impress the peeps at a big rave. It's a comedy and it has some odd twists along the way, but it sums up the whole culture quite well. And btw, don't forget the flickering laser lights and the disturbing black light murals!
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Post by Kapitan on Jul 31, 2021 19:23:41 GMT
Another of the major streams of 90s music is what became known as gangsta rap.
In its early years, most commercially popular rap was surprisingly innocent. Kool Moe Dee, Run DMC, the Fat Boys, Salt n Pepa, and LL Cool J were stars to various degrees, and none was particularly vulgar, much less violent. Sure, the Beastie Boys had a "frat boy" kind of image and were derogatory toward women, but the biggest complaint about rap was "why don't they sing? they're just talking!"
There was political rap like Public Enemy, but in the latter 80s NWA came out with Straight Outta Compton. That was one of the earliest albums directly speaking not just about, but from the perspective of, violent, criminal urban gang members. By the early 90s, NWA and its members as solo acts, Snoop Dogg, Tupac Shakur, Notorious BIG, and many others came to prominence on these same basic themes.
An East Coast/West Coast feud developed in the popular consciousness, as well as between certain rappers themselves. It went beyond who made the best music and resulted in the deaths of Shakur and Biggie. After the Rodney King beating-inspired LA riots of the 90s and considering the high rates of violent crime in major cities, the music was very publicly attacked by prominent people, including elected officials. This had predictable results: parents, especially white rural ones, were terrified and enraged; kids, especially white suburban ones, loved the music all the more.
Toward the '00s, a different aspect of gangsta culture overtook some of the violent imagery: ostentatious demonstrations of wealth and glamorous lifestyles became key pieces of the music, with artists like Puffy Combs and Ma$e producing videos in which the stars were dressed in outfits in seas of cash, jewels, and of course, women.
You could argue that gangsta rap was to concerned adults of the 90s what Elvis was to those of the 50s, and what heavy metal was to those of the '80s.
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