|
Post by Kapitan on Jan 27, 2024 13:43:13 GMT
This is a question that was spurred by part of the latest Good Timin' podcast, the Surf's Up discussion episode. At least one, and maybe two, of the guys were criticizing "Student Demonstration Time." Now, there's nothing unusual about that: I'd say it's one of two songs most criticized from that album (along with my beloved "Feet"). But what struck me was that at least one of the guys was criticizing it not necessarily for the clunkiness of the lyrics, but for the actual message of the song. The way I'd interpret what he said--and sorry, I forget who it was that said it--was that the song is saying "you should avoid protesting, because it could be dangerous," and that this is a bad message to send.
I am pasting the lyrics (from Musixmatch, without review, so if they're wrong, don't shoot me) just for reference. The question: What do you think, not so much about the quality of the lyrics, but the message?
Student Demonstration Time:
Starting out with Berkeley Free Speech And later on at People's Park The winds of change fanned into flames Student demonstrations spark Down to Isla Vista, where police felt so harassed They called the special riot squad of the L.A. County Sheriff
Well, there's a riot going on There's a riot going on There's a riot going on Student demonstration time
The violence spread down south to where Jackson State brothers Learned not to say nasty things about southern policemen's mothers Nothing much was said about it, and really next to nothing done The pen is mightier than the sword, but no match for a gun
Well, there's a riot going on Well, there's a riot going on Well, there's a riot going on 'Cause it's student demonstration time
America was stunned on May 4th, 1970 When rally turned to riot up at Kent State University They said the students scared the Guard Though the troops were battle dressed Four martyrs earned a new degree The Bachelor of Bullets I know we're all fed up with useless wars and racial strife But next time there's a riot, well, you best stay out of sight
Well, there's a riot going on, oh There's a riot going on Well, there's a riot going on Student demonstration time
Stay away when there's a riot going on (student demonstration) Stay away when there's a riot going on (student demonstration)
|
|
|
Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 27, 2024 14:10:18 GMT
First, yes, I agree with you that "Student Demonstration Time" and "Take A Load Off Your Feet" are the two most criticized songs on Surf's Up, and I wouldn't have had a problem if "Student Demonstration Time" would've been omitted/deleted in favor of another song. The song sticks out like a sore thumb...I actually find it annoying, both musically and lyrically. However, it would've been hard to sacrifice a Mike Love lead vocal. There are too few Mike Love vocals on the album to begin with.
Regarding the message, I never thought Mike was advocating for or against anything, but simply documenting events. I can see Mike literally writing down current events and then putting them in some form to be able to sing them. Do I think Mike was purposely trying to be current? Yes. Surfing wasn't "in" anymore but protesting was. Controversial? Yes again. You won't find many Beach Boys' songs with these lyrics. Let's get a reaction! Cool? Yes, the band was in a...phase...and Jack Rieley was driving it. If anything, Mike was bandwagon jumping. But, no, while Mike might've been preaching, I don't think he took a side, cleverly actually.
|
|
|
Post by B.E. on Jan 28, 2024 16:50:45 GMT
Regarding the message, I never thought Mike was advocating for or against anything, but simply documenting events. I can see Mike literally writing down current events and then putting them in some form to be able to sing them. Do I think Mike was purposely trying to be current? Yes. Surfing wasn't "in" anymore but protesting was. Controversial? Yes again. You won't find many Beach Boys' songs with these lyrics. Let's get a reaction! Cool? Yes, the band was in a...phase...and Jack Rieley was driving it. If anything, Mike was bandwagon jumping. But, no, while Mike might've been preaching, I don't think he took a side, cleverly actually.
I think the lyrics do more than simply document events. There's clearly a message, even if it's not squarely on one side or the other. Although, that said, there is explicit support for at least some of the protesters' causes (and no support offered for the "battle dressed troops"). Personally, I kinda like the lyrics, but they are rife for criticism and a very questionable choice considering the crowd they were obviously trying to appeal to at the time (i.e. the message isn't "cool"). Compare the lyrics to "Ohio", which are even less explicit, though also supporting one side (and also taken straight from the headline). But they managed to do so without warning or questioning the victims.
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Jan 31, 2024 20:41:53 GMT
I actually don't think there's anything wrong with advising kids to avoid protests that have become (or are likely to become) riots. This is probably because I don't think there's anything inherently heroic or admirable about protesting, either. (At times it can be effective. Often it isn't. And of course the specific protest in question is key to the whole thing.)
But regardless, things can get out of control quickly when people are gathered en masse, and especially when they're marching, chanting, etc., about contentious issues, possibly goading police, possibly being abused by overzealous police, possibly with counterprotesters engaging them, and so on. With that in mind, I actually think it's pretty good advice to think twice, regardless of the righteousness of the cause. People can (and do) get hurt or killed. And your participation is pretty unlikely to actually do any good, whatever activists behind the causes in question might say. A cynic could even say it's mostly about being seen as on the right side or as a good person, as opposed to actually effecting change.
(Yes, I am very unpopular among my activist friends for this general antipathy toward protest.)
So do I like the lyrics? No. I think they're pretty clunky, at best. And I absolutely can imagine why the intended audience wouldn't have liked them. But I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with the message. It is at least a defensible one, even for a politically left-leaning person.
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Feb 1, 2024 14:54:35 GMT
I hope this post isn't in poor taste: it is not meant as such, but instead is what strikes me as a natural question related to Brian Wilson's career going forward.
It is all but certain Brian Wilson will never tour again, and it's entirely possible he will never perform publicly again. This was already the case prior to the tragedy a few days ago. His career going forward was and is likely mostly related to the management of his archives.
I wonder what impact Melinda's passing will have on that process. It seems she was a key figure (possibly the key figure?) in decisions for the past few decades, either formally or informally (or maybe both, at different times). I don't think Brian himself will necessarily be willing or able to truly manage decisions. Might we see more releases? Fewer releases? Different releases? Who will advise Brian on them? I'm curious.
|
|
|
Post by kds on Feb 1, 2024 18:53:28 GMT
Even prior to Melinda's passing, I think any chances of new music or live appearances were very slim.
Now, well, I just hope Brian can find happiness and peace.
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Feb 1, 2024 18:54:31 GMT
Even prior to Melinda's passing, I think any chances of new music or live appearances were very slim. Now, well, I just hope Brian can find happiness and peace. Oh, so do I. Absolutely. But I think we can probably all agree that his career--even if it is a passive one on his part--will go on regardless, as his catalog will continue to be curated, re-released, etc. That's what I was wondering about. And presumably Melinda would have had a big say in what would be released, how, and when.
|
|
|
Post by The Cincinnati Kid on Feb 1, 2024 19:07:45 GMT
I'm not sure much will change compared to if Melinda was alive. Not much was going on anyway, although that could have been because of whatever, if anything, was going on with her health wise. It's been about 18 months since he stopped touring and it sounds like the only thing he did was a couple sessions for the Glen Campbell album. Maybe he'll be inspired to write a song or two after this?
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Feb 1, 2024 19:40:00 GMT
What I was thinking most specifically was, we know there are many demos from various periods, not to mention Sweet Insanity. Some of these things are somewhat sensitive, in that the so-called Bedroom Tapes, the so-called Cocaine Sessions, and SI are not exactly from Brian's best moments.
My assumption has always been they'd likely be officially released eventually because of historical interest in Brian, but probably not while he was alive--especially if Melinda was in charge.
I wonder whether other decision-makers might have other plans, and not be so patient. (And whether Brian would put up much of a fight one way or the other.)
|
|
|
Post by Sheriff John Stone on Feb 1, 2024 20:47:03 GMT
I'm also of the opinion that Brian's career, both as a performer and as a recording artist, is over. I can't see him performing any kind of a live set, even if sitting at an inaudible piano and microphone with a band carrying the song(s). And, even if he/they would attempt, say a one-off single, I believe if would be overwhelmed by technology, fly-ins, and your basic frankensteining. I don't expect to hear another new Brian Wilson recording. I don't even think the Long Promised Road project should've been released. It was very unfulfilling and a borderline embarrassment for an artist the stature of Brian Wilson.
That basically translates that, even if Melinda had not passed, there wouldn't be any new music projects to pursue. I think we're looking at only two future projects, and again, I don't think Melinda would've had much input into them. Her input wouldn't have been necessary - or even welcomed. I think a Brian Wilson solo years boxed set is inevitable. I don't think it would be a good idea to simple gather the best tracks from each solo album and package them together. Most of the people who would be interested in the set would already have them. All of them. I would use the "best of" songs as a starting point, and fill in the project with things like Sweet Insanity, the Paley Sessions, and other outtakes, rarities, and unreleased songs. There has to be plenty of them, and what better home for them. I don't think they warrant their own single CD releases.
Another project I've been promoting the last couple of years would a 2CD Brian Wilson Live In Concert package. I would have CD 1 start with ten Beach Boys' classics/deep cuts followed by the entire Pet Sounds album. CD 1 would start out with BWPS and finish with band introductions, a couple more deep cuts, and the typical Beach Boys' home stretch songs. You could close CD 2 with "Love And Mercy".
Who would be driving the projects? Whichever record company wants to take them on. Who would be consulted on Brian's behalf? I am fairly certain in the very near future a court-appointed conservator for Brian will be named. Whoever that person turns out to be can consult the several "musical connections" Brian has established over the last 25 years. I trust the right people would come forward.
|
|
|
Post by The Cincinnati Kid on Feb 1, 2024 20:50:09 GMT
Some of that stuff will probably never see the light of day until they need to release it for copyright extension (assuming that law still exists in its current form). The Playback album was a big missed opportunity to showcase Brian's career. There would have been more interest being not too far removed from Love and Mercy and surely more physical sales than they would get today. I vaguely remember it started out as a multi disc set, but there wasn't enough interest from the record company. Or maybe it was they didn't want to do it without Beach Boys songs. Again, this is a vague recollection from a few years after it was released. I'm not sure anything is really worth releasing on its own (like SI).
|
|
Emdeeh
Pacific Coast Highway
Posts: 520
Likes: 532
|
Post by Emdeeh on Feb 1, 2024 21:01:48 GMT
I think it's possible Brian might write new songs for others to sing. Music is the force that flows through him, even if it's only noodling at the piano. But I would be surprised to see another album of new material from him -- a track here and there, maybe.
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Apr 3, 2024 18:08:30 GMT
I often think about what Brian Wilson (and the other Beach Boys', to be fair) solo albums would have sounded like had they been recorded as Beach Boys albums.
Obviously they wouldn't have been: in every case, you have to assume the writing credits would have been dramatically different, including several Mike Love songs or co-writes per album, as well as the occasional contribution from somebody else. But just taking them as they are, it's fun to imagine the guys' voices where we usually got Wall-of-Brian or Brian and his band. (I have no qualms with his bands' vocals, by the way. None.)
My question is: does anyone here prefer any Brian Wilson albums as-is over their (imagined) Beach Boys version, assuming that any Beach Boys contributions would have been of those surviving Beach Boys at their ages when those albums were released (i.e., you can't put Carl on That Lucky Old Sun, or Dennis on anything) and all other aspects of those albums were identical (song selection, arrangements, instrumental tracks)? Or do you believe in every case that the Beach Boys' voices would have improved those albums?
|
|
|
Post by kds on Apr 3, 2024 18:30:06 GMT
I often think about what Brian Wilson (and the other Beach Boys', to be fair) solo albums would have sounded like had they been recorded as Beach Boys albums. Obviously they wouldn't have been: in every case, you have to assume the writing credits would have been dramatically different, including several Mike Love songs or co-writes per album, as well as the occasional contribution from somebody else. But just taking them as they are, it's fun to imagine the guys' voices where we usually got Wall-of-Brian or Brian and his band. (I have no qualms with his bands' vocals, by the way. None.) My question is: does anyone here prefer any Brian Wilson albums as-is over their (imagined) Beach Boys version, assuming that any Beach Boys contributions would have been of those surviving Beach Boys at their ages when those albums were released (i.e., you can't put Carl on That Lucky Old Sun, or Dennis on anything) and all other aspects of those albums were identical (song selection, arrangements, instrumental tracks)? Or do you believe in every case that the Beach Boys' voices would have improved those albums? I think the Brian album that would've most benefitted from the input of the other Beach Boys would be BW '88. For starters, Brian is, IMO, not great vocally on that album, so it would've been nice to have a few lead vocals here and there from Mike, Carl, and Al. Plus, I think the album's fairly uneven. Maybe take out something like Night Time for something that Mike and Terry were doing at the time. Obviously, the harmony vocals would've been miles better.
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Apr 3, 2024 18:52:15 GMT
I often think about what Brian Wilson (and the other Beach Boys', to be fair) solo albums would have sounded like had they been recorded as Beach Boys albums. Obviously they wouldn't have been: in every case, you have to assume the writing credits would have been dramatically different, including several Mike Love songs or co-writes per album, as well as the occasional contribution from somebody else. But just taking them as they are, it's fun to imagine the guys' voices where we usually got Wall-of-Brian or Brian and his band. (I have no qualms with his bands' vocals, by the way. None.) My question is: does anyone here prefer any Brian Wilson albums as-is over their (imagined) Beach Boys version, assuming that any Beach Boys contributions would have been of those surviving Beach Boys at their ages when those albums were released (i.e., you can't put Carl on That Lucky Old Sun, or Dennis on anything) and all other aspects of those albums were identical (song selection, arrangements, instrumental tracks)? Or do you believe in every case that the Beach Boys' voices would have improved those albums? I think the Brian album that would've most benefitted from the input of the other Beach Boys would be BW '88. For starters, Brian is, IMO, not great vocally on that album, so it would've been nice to have a few lead vocals here and there from Mike, Carl, and Al. Plus, I think the album's fairly uneven. Maybe take out something like Night Time for something that Mike and Terry were doing at the time. Obviously, the harmony vocals would've been miles better. I agree with that generally, but that's excluded from this question: the album has to stay as-is except for hypothetical vocals.
|
|