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Post by Kapitan on Dec 7, 2023 18:11:24 GMT
The past few years, there have been general threads for each year: Beach Boys 2022, Beach Boys 2023, and such. We have just about three weeks left of 2023. Will there be much to discuss in 2024? What will it be? The M&B Beach Boys will hit the road again, doing their thing. Al Jardine will presumably play some dates--either with his larger group of family and former BBs sidemen or with his pared-down group with Matt--though he hasn't been especially busy. Brian Wilson is seemingly done. There is no particular reason to expect much, if any, new material from anyone. There is not likely to be a major archival copyright extension release in 2024. Maybe the long overdue documentary will finally arrive and generate a little buzz. Otherwise ... what are we going to talk about?Perhaps their great achievements in past decades -- and there are enough of those. Oh, no doubt about it. But, for example, we've methodically gone through every album. We've methodically gone through every single. We've even methodically gone through every member's solo albums. We've each rated the albums. We've done innumerous "what's your favorite..." type threads. There's no argument that what they did (particularly in the 60s, and somewhat in the 70s) was great. But when there isn't anything new, you can only tell old war stories so often. Don't misunderstand, I'm not trying to be a wet blanket. I'm just hoping somebody brings creative new angles to the table--that or something unexpectedly interesting is done or released--to keep some energy here. Nobody wants to be the old guys at the bar rehashing their same high school glories well into their 70s.
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Post by jk on Dec 7, 2023 21:47:20 GMT
Perhaps their great achievements in past decades -- and there are enough of those. Oh, no doubt about it. But, for example, we've methodically gone through every album. We've methodically gone through every single. We've even methodically gone through every member's solo albums. We've each rated the albums. We've done innumerous "what's your favorite..." type threads. There's no argument that what they did (particularly in the 60s, and somewhat in the 70s) was great. But when there isn't anything new, you can only tell old war stories so often. Don't misunderstand, I'm not trying to be a wet blanket. I'm just hoping somebody brings creative new angles to the table--that or something unexpectedly interesting is done or released--to keep some energy here. Nobody wants to be the old guys at the bar rehashing their same high school glories well into their 70s. Well, to quote WillJC at EH, "Craig [Slowinski], Joshilyn Hoisington, John Brode and myself have been working together on broader archival research for a comprehensive Beach Boys sessionography project." I and no doubt others had an inkling some such activity was afoot but it's truly wonderful to learn that it's on the way, however long it might still take. Just imagine -- all that priceless information at present scattered across numerous websites and archives brought together in one place! This is my idea of a future for Beach Boys fandom.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Dec 7, 2023 23:00:05 GMT
Oh, no doubt about it. But, for example, we've methodically gone through every album. We've methodically gone through every single. We've even methodically gone through every member's solo albums. We've each rated the albums. We've done innumerous "what's your favorite..." type threads. There's no argument that what they did (particularly in the 60s, and somewhat in the 70s) was great. But when there isn't anything new, you can only tell old war stories so often. Don't misunderstand, I'm not trying to be a wet blanket. I'm just hoping somebody brings creative new angles to the table--that or something unexpectedly interesting is done or released--to keep some energy here. Nobody wants to be the old guys at the bar rehashing their same high school glories well into their 70s. Well, to quote WillJC at EH, "Craig [Slowinski], Joshilyn Hoisington, John Brode and myself have been working together on broader archival research for a comprehensive Beach Boys sessionography project." I and no doubt others had an inkling some such activity was afoot but it's truly wonderful to learn that it's on the way, however long it might still take. Just imagine -- all that priceless information at present scattered across numerous websites and archives brought together in one place! This is my idea of a future for Beach Boys fandom. That sounds like quite an undertaking, jk. Have you heard any time frame for its completion?
I'm not expecting any new music from any Beach Boys in 2024. I have no idea what David Marks, Ricky Fataar, and/or Blondie Chaplin are up to. The only one who might - might - have anything new would be Al, and, well, it's Al so we'll probably have to wait a little longer. I would think Mike is pretty much solo'd out after that burst of creativity a few years ago. The recent Bruce interview shed no light on anything new from him...as usual. And that leaves Brian. I'm not optimistic where Brian is concerned.
I haven't heard or read about any archival releases. I guess 1974 would've been the Caribou sessions and there isn't enough material for an album there. They missed the boat by not assembling an extended 2 CD In Concert. To me that was a no-brainer. No new Dennis Wilson solo stuff left. Something definitely could be done with Carl Wilson's catalogue. The silence from Carl's estate is deafening. 2024 is the 60th anniversary of some really good Beach Boys' stuff. Maybe Capitol and BRI and Iconic can sniff some $$$$$$$ there.
The documentary? Typical Beach Boysdom. The more things change the more they stay the same. Why isn't it completed and released? What could they possibly be waiting for? Hey, this is Iconic. I thought they were the gold standard or something like that.
A prediction? A weak prediction? Maybe Mike & Bruce will play some big gig or a festival or hook up with another popular act like LoCash. I'm not joking or being sarcastic. Mike & Bruce got a lot out of that. Maybe some popular act - hopefully a VERY popular act - who is a big fan of The Beach Boys will recruit them or latch on to them or just hang around with them and get them some free pub.
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Post by jk on Dec 8, 2023 8:17:40 GMT
Well, to quote WillJC at EH, "Craig [Slowinski], Joshilyn Hoisington, John Brode and myself have been working together on broader archival research for a comprehensive Beach Boys sessionography project." I and no doubt others had an inkling some such activity was afoot but it's truly wonderful to learn that it's on the way, however long it might still take. Just imagine -- all that priceless information at present scattered across numerous websites and archives brought together in one place! This is my idea of a future for Beach Boys fandom. That sounds like quite an undertaking, jk. Have you heard any time frame for its completion? Regrettably not. I don't know what the eventual format will be either. We'll find out in the fullness of time. But I'm sure it will be well worth the wait!
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 18, 2024 19:23:10 GMT
I don't think there's any Beach Boys' album that I've perseverated over more than 15 Big Ones. Questions, questions, and more questions. What were they thinking? What weren't they thinking? Was Brian Wilson the right choice for producer? How could've they made the project better? Should've they done one album (or side) of oldies and another album (or side) of newies? What songs should've they included? What songs should've they...not included? The album title? Even the album cover - how could've they improved that? And on and on.
I never had a problem with Brian Wilson as producer of 15 Big Ones. I actually think his production, especially of the instrumental tracks, was fine. The vocals are another issue, but I think the guys' voices (especially Brian's and Dennis's) had deteriorated to the point that no production was going to help that problem. I've also made my peace with the oldies, well, maybe a number of them. I still have serious questions about the ones that were ultimately included on the album. The band was in a phase (and one that would become permanent) of performing "fun" Beach Boys' songs with a fair amount of oldies interspersed into their live sets. Why not put that successful formula on record, especially in 1976, and especially after the success of Endless Summer and Spirit Of America?
My biggest problem with 15 Big Ones - and actually with all Beach Boys' albums - is with the final tracklist and the sequencing. Specifically, which songs (that were actually recorded) should've been included, and which songs (that made the final cut) should've been deleted? Of course it's a matter of opinion, and I guess it mostly came down to Brian Wilson's which mattered the most. However, I'd like to give mine.
I'll simplify it as much as I can. These are the songs I would delete: 1. Talk To Me 2. A Casual Look 3. Blueberry Hill 4. In The Still Of The Night
And, these are the songs I would add: 1. Good Timin' 2. Come Co With Me 3. Sea Cruise 4. River Song
Now, just looking at that 4 for 4 exchange, doesn't it look like that would've been a significant improvement or upgrade. I realize that this post could've/should've been included in the Alternate Albums thread, but I thought it might prompt some discussion. Over the years, I have changed my Alternate 15 Big Ones tracklist/sequencing numerous times, too many to keep track of. This is my latest:
The Beach Boys - 15 Big Ones
Side 1 1. Back Home 2. Had To Phone Ya 3. It's OK 4. Susie Cincinnati 5. Palisades Park 6. Rock And Roll Music 7. Good Timin' 8. TM Song
Side 2
1. Come Go With Me 2. Sea Cruise 3. River Song 4. Everyone's In Love With You 5. Just Once In My Life 6. Chapel Of Love 7. That Same Song
Please take a look at it, maybe even listen to it. It includes six Brian Wilson originals, there's some good Al, Dennis is better represented (better than "In The Still Of The Night"), Carl with "Good Timin'" is a highlight, and the album has plenty of rock and pop. It just looks like a stronger album. Those are quality BW songs, and "Come Go With Me" and "Sea Cruise" - as oldies - add more life and spice. There's potentially five hit singles on there. It's still quirky. It's not as boring. It's more fun!
Question: What would've you done - or not done - with 15 Big Ones?
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 18, 2024 19:47:40 GMT
Your additions in a few cases stand out to me as being awkward fits (or at least potentially so).
"River Song" most of all, I just don't think sits comfortably alongside the likes of "Back Home," "Chapel of Love," "Palisades Park," and the like. It's partly the sound of it, but it's largely just the style of the song itself. It's so far from the ragged oldies of the actual album (or generally in-kind originals).
"Good Timin," I wonder how different it would have sounded had they finished it those few years earlier. Maybe it would have fit sonically, but as it is now, it's similarly different from the rest of the material to "River Song," though in different ways. It's just so smooth, so easy listening. But maybe Producer Brian circa 1975-76 would have left it rougher around the edges, as he did with everything else.
"Come Go With Me," I'd just say something similar to "Good Timin." As material, it definitely fits perfectly. It sounds different, but maybe had it been recorded alongside those other oldies with Brian producing it, it would have sounded like a nice fit.
My impression of 15 Big Ones has shifted over time, from disliking almost all of it to more or less liking some of it to varying degrees. But in the end, I think some of Dennis's (and I think Carl's?) contemporaneous comments were correct: they shouldn't have done it. And if they did it, maybe they should have just done an oldies album (as Brian's warm-up ... not that he ever did actually get back into the the regular swing of things with them again anyway) before moving on to original material again.
I've reverted to the position that I've landed on and abandoned again and again through the years, but if I had a magic wand, I think I'd have pushed for a continuation of what they were doing through Holland. I think focusing on original material, including that from Carl and Dennis, and pushing to be creative as opposed to as much self-imitation as they ended up doing for the next few years, would have led to better music. Honestly, I barely care about the covers of that era. With a lot of them, I like this or that arrangement or production technique, but that's about it. If we're being counterfactual and utopian, that would be my choice: no 15 Big Ones at all, and instead having the next studio album after Holland be Caribou or something...
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 18, 2024 22:04:06 GMT
Your additions in a few cases stand out to me as being awkward fits (or at least potentially so). "River Song" most of all, I just don't think sits comfortably alongside the likes of "Back Home," "Chapel of Love," "Palisades Park," and the like. It's partly the sound of it, but it's largely just the style of the song itself. It's so far from the ragged oldies of the actual album (or generally in-kind originals). "Good Timin," I wonder how different it would have sounded had they finished it those few years earlier. Maybe it would have fit sonically, but as it is now, it's similarly different from the rest of the material to "River Song," though in different ways. It's just so smooth, so easy listening. But maybe Producer Brian circa 1975-76 would have left it rougher around the edges, as he did with everything else. "Come Go With Me," I'd just say something similar to "Good Timin." As material, it definitely fits perfectly. It sounds different, but maybe had it been recorded alongside those other oldies with Brian producing it, it would have sounded like a nice fit. My impression of 15 Big Ones has shifted over time, from disliking almost all of it to more or less liking some of it to varying degrees. But in the end, I think some of Dennis's (and I think Carl's?) contemporaneous comments were correct: they shouldn't have done it. And if they did it, maybe they should have just done an oldies album (as Brian's warm-up ... not that he ever did actually get back into the the regular swing of things with them again anyway) before moving on to original material again. I've reverted to the position that I've landed on and abandoned again and again through the years, but if I had a magic wand, I think I'd have pushed for a continuation of what they were doing through Holland. I think focusing on original material, including that from Carl and Dennis, and pushing to be creative as opposed to as much self-imitation as they ended up doing for the next few years, would have led to better music. Honestly, I barely care about the covers of that era. With a lot of them, I like this or that arrangement or production technique, but that's about it. If we're being counterfactual and utopian, that would be my choice: no 15 Big Ones at all, and instead having the next studio album after Holland be Caribou or something... Thank you for your comments. Your points are well-taken and I'd like to address them one at a time.
"River Song" - You are absolutely right. The sound of it and the style of it does not fit comfortably with the other songs on the album. I don't think it would've been totally out of place, but it definitely would've stood out. Would've that been a bad thing? With my sequencing, I tried to "make it comfortable" by placing it after "Sea Cruise" (get the lyrical and vocal connection?) and before "Everyone's In Love With You" which I consider the only other song with a more contemporary feel (am I reaching?). Basically, I was trying to highlight Dennis's songwriting. He was such a vital part of the past how many albums and of course he deserved the right to represented on 15 Big Ones (which he ultimately wasn't).
"Good Timin'" - Another good point by you that the L.A. (Light Album) version that we know might appear too smooth or slick (my word), but I'll ask again - what's wrong with that? I don't think it would've ultimately been with Brian's 1976 production, but it's such a good song. Sometimes the strength of the song can overcome a lot. "Good Timin'" would've been a definite asset on 15 Big Ones. That was precisely the kind of new Beach Boys' song that fans were hoping for in 1976. That's what they were expecting.
"Come Go With Me" - Yes, the M.I.U. version would not have been as good as good a fit as the earlier Brian Wilson-produced version. Let's use that version! Hey, the fans liked The Beach Boys performing this song. "Come Go With Me" was right up The Beach Boys' alley. That was eventually proven. It would've worked in 1976, too, maybe moreso than 1981. The sad thing is, "Come Go With Me" was probably one of the better oldies/choices made and it...wasn't used on the album. I just don't get it.
Making a first album of all-oldies - I know you weren't necessarily advocating for this, but I think that would've been a disaster, and Brian and the group would've been hammered unmercifully for it. The oldies that were chosen were poor choices. If it sounds like I'm questioning Brian Douglas Wilson, so be it. The oldies chosen/recorded were head-scratching,quirky, lifeless, and downright ragged. When I think of all the other alternative choices, much more inspired choices, it frustrates me terribly. And, it's not like they recorded 40 or so oldies and then could've whittled it down to an album's worth. There just weren't that many quality ones to choose from.
A continuation of what they were doing with Holland - While I prefer(ed) the fun/old Beach Boys' sound/some oldies/commercial approach of 15 Big Ones, I would not have objected to a more group effort with all original material and a more contemporary feel, like Holland - but only if their hearts were in it. And I say that because I'm not sure where their heads and hearts were at that time. I don't think Brian and Mike were into that. Al could've been; he continued to write songs in that vein. But what about Carl and Dennis? I have no idea what kind of music Carl would've written in 1975-76. He went almost six years - from 1973's Holland to 1979's L.A. (Light Album) without contributing a song to The Beach Boys. Oh, Dennis could've easily contributed "new" music, but how much? What was he willing to give to the group and what did he want to keep for himself? I'll go back to what I posted above. By 1976, with their live performances, the Beach Boys had almost completely moved on from those early 70's albums and that sound. Yes, a few tracks remained in the setlist, but they were being replaced one at a time by lighter, more "fun" songs. I sometimes think it would've been a little awkward for the fans - and the band - if in 1976, the Beach Boys recorded one type of album, but then in concert, performed an entirely different style of music. At least with 15 Big Ones, there was some consistency with the new record and the live performances. Also, with a compromised Brian and Dennis (for sad reasons) in the group and with the loss of Blondie Chaplin and Ricky Fataar, I don't know if the 1976 Beached Boys could've pulled off a contemporary album or live set. They would've needed a lot of help.
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 18, 2024 22:32:19 GMT
A continuation of what they were doing with Holland - While I prefer(ed) the fun/old Beach Boys' sound/some oldies/commercial approach of 15 Big Ones, I would not have objected to a more group effort with all original material and a more contemporary feel, like Holland - but only if their hearts were in it. And I say that because I'm not sure where their heads and hearts were at that time. I don't think Brian and Mike were into that. Al could've been; he continued to write songs in that vein. But what about Carl and Dennis? I have no idea what kind of music Carl would've written in 1975-76. He went almost six years - from 1973's Holland to 1979's L.A. (Light Album) without contributing a song to The Beach Boys. Oh, Dennis could've easily contributed "new" music, but how much? What was he willing to give to the group and what did he want to keep for himself? I'll go back to what I posted above. By 1976, with their live performances, the Beach Boys had almost completely moved on from those early 70's albums and that sound. Yes, a few tracks remained in the setlist, but they were being replaced one at a time by lighter, more "fun" songs. I sometimes think it would've been a little awkward for the fans - and the band - if in 1976, the Beach Boys recorded one type of album, but then in concert, performed an entirely different style of music. At least with 15 Big Ones, there was some consistency with the new record and the live performances. Also, with a compromised Brian and Dennis (for sad reasons) in the group and with the loss of Blondie Chaplin and Ricky Fataar, I don't know if the 1976 Beached Boys could've pulled off a contemporary album or live set. They would've needed a lot of help. Oh, I know/agree. And their hearts (or at least heads, or pocketbooks, or whatever) obviously weren't in it. This is what I know I've said a billion times, but let's make it a billion and one: it seems to me that after Holland, it was a lot of "my turn, your turn." A mostly oldies album, a quirky Brian album, a Mike/Al album pretending to have major Brian input, a Carl/Dennis contemporary album, a Bruce + nostalgia album, an 80s synth pop album...and then silence until Mike takes over again. My point is, their hearts weren't in anything. At least not everyone's in the same thing at the same time. That's why I sometimes question their raison d'etre* after Holland. Seriously, I think there was never again much consensus as to what they were doing or why, other than that there was a cash cow industry called The Beach Boys that none of them could match or beat on their own. *How's that for pretentious!? A little French! (And probably the only French term I know other than some food terminology!)
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Post by kds on Jan 19, 2024 3:29:21 GMT
I always got the sense that Post Holland, they were just trying to throw stuff at the wall to see if anything stuck. Trying to recapture old glories, have hits with cover songs, put Brian back in charge, try new trends.
I imagine it had to be frustrating seeing some of their peers continue to have success with new music while they kind of spun their wheels.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 19, 2024 14:12:22 GMT
I always got the sense that Post Holland, they were just trying to throw stuff at the wall to see if anything stuck. Trying to recapture old glories, have hits with cover songs, put Brian back in charge, try new trends. I imagine it had to be frustrating seeing some of their peers continue to have success with new music while they kind of spun their wheels. I'm going to slightly disagree with one of your points, kds. While it might've looked that way, I don't think they were just trying to throw stuff at the wall to see if anything would stick. I think they actually did have meetings, discussions, and strategies for each album. I just think they didn't have a clue in making the right or effective decisions. When it came to songwriting, arranging, producing, and performing - the guys were incredibly talented. But, when it came to choosing the right producer for an album, choosing the songs for the final tracklist, choosing the single (with the record company), choosing which take to use/or do another take, choosing the sequencing, choosing the album title, choosing when to release the album, and on and on. For years, at the beginning of their career, it was easy. Just let Brian make the decisions. Obviously that worked, but there were still questionable decisions even then that were...overcome...by the brilliant music. Once Brian retreated and the genius music went with him, the group (especially post-1973) had to be more intelligent and thorough and strategic - and they weren't up to it. I think they tried, in varying degrees, to do the right thing, but who knows how things went down. I can imagine meetings held in board rooms, in studios, at houses, backstage, on airplanes, and over the telephone that weren't exactly effective. What shape was Brian in? Did Dennis even attend? Was Carl quiet? Did Al have anything to say? Did Mike dominate? Whatever the mix, whatever was discussed (or not), whatever happened, ultimately they made poor decisions. Yes, 20/20 hindsight is always clearer, but it's so easy to second-guess some of the decisions the group made. Look, I love 'em but sometimes I think they just weren't...very smart. Oh, and did I mention a lack of knowledgeable/effective management?
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 19, 2024 14:16:12 GMT
I always got the sense that Post Holland, they were just trying to throw stuff at the wall to see if anything stuck. Trying to recapture old glories, have hits with cover songs, put Brian back in charge, try new trends. I imagine it had to be frustrating seeing some of their peers continue to have success with new music while they kind of spun their wheels. I'm going to slightly disagree with one of your points, kds. While it might've looked that way, I don't think they were just trying to throw stuff at the wall to see if anything would stick. I think they actually did have meetings, discussions, and strategies for each album. I just think they didn't have a clue in making the right or correct or effective decisions. When it came to songwriting, arranging, producing, and performing - the guys were incredibly talented. But, when it came to choosing the right producer for the album, choosing the songs for the final tracklist, choosing the single, choosing which take to use/or do another take, choosing the sequencing, choosing the album title, choosing when to release the album, and on and on. For years, at the beginning of their career, it was easy. Just let Brian make the decisions. Obviously that worked, but there were still questionable decisions even then that were...overcome...by the brilliant music. Once Brian retreated and the genius music went with him, the group - especially post-1973 - had to be more intelligent and thorough and strategic, and they weren't up to it. I think they tried, in varying degrees, to do the right thing, but who knows how things went down. I can imagine meetings held in board rooms, in studios, at houses, backstage, on airplanes, and over the telephone that weren't exactly effective. What shape was Brian in? Did Dennis even attend? Was Carl quiet? Did Al have anything to say? Did Mike dominate? Whatever the mix, whatever was discussed (or not), whatever happened, ultimately they made poor decisions. Yes, 20/20 hindsight is always clearer, but it's so easy to second-guess some of the decisions the group made. Look, I love 'em but sometimes I think they just weren't...very smart. Oh, and did I mention a lack of knowledgeable/effective management? I don't see how those two ideas are in opposition. Having meetings, discussions, strategies for each (mostly unsuccessful and often different from the preceding) album doesn't mean they weren't throwing stuff at the wall to see what would stick. In fact, I'd say they go hand in hand quite comfortably. Heck, the meetings, discussions, and strategies for each album may well have been part of the problem. They were grown-ups who didn't really get along very well and whose heads (personally and musically) were clearly in different places, trying to create or recapture the formula for success. And when Plan A failed, they went to Plan B. Then Plan C. Then Plan D. And so on.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 19, 2024 14:37:49 GMT
I'm going to slightly disagree with one of your points, kds. While it might've looked that way, I don't think they were just trying to throw stuff at the wall to see if anything would stick. I think they actually did have meetings, discussions, and strategies for each album. I just think they didn't have a clue in making the right or correct or effective decisions. When it came to songwriting, arranging, producing, and performing - the guys were incredibly talented. But, when it came to choosing the right producer for the album, choosing the songs for the final tracklist, choosing the single, choosing which take to use/or do another take, choosing the sequencing, choosing the album title, choosing when to release the album, and on and on. For years, at the beginning of their career, it was easy. Just let Brian make the decisions. Obviously that worked, but there were still questionable decisions even then that were...overcome...by the brilliant music. Once Brian retreated and the genius music went with him, the group - especially post-1973 - had to be more intelligent and thorough and strategic, and they weren't up to it. I think they tried, in varying degrees, to do the right thing, but who knows how things went down. I can imagine meetings held in board rooms, in studios, at houses, backstage, on airplanes, and over the telephone that weren't exactly effective. What shape was Brian in? Did Dennis even attend? Was Carl quiet? Did Al have anything to say? Did Mike dominate? Whatever the mix, whatever was discussed (or not), whatever happened, ultimately they made poor decisions. Yes, 20/20 hindsight is always clearer, but it's so easy to second-guess some of the decisions the group made. Look, I love 'em but sometimes I think they just weren't...very smart. Oh, and did I mention a lack of knowledgeable/effective management? I don't see how those two ideas are in opposition. Having meetings, discussions, strategies for each (mostly unsuccessful and often different from the preceding) album doesn't mean they weren't throwing stuff at the wall to see what would stick. In fact, I'd say they go hand in hand quite comfortably. Heck, the meetings, discussions, and strategies for each album may well have been part of the problem. They were grown-ups who didn't really get along very well and whose heads (personally and musically) were clearly in different places, trying to create or recapture the formula for success. And when Plan A failed, they went to Plan B. Then Plan C. Then Plan D. And so on. I interpret "throwing things at the wall to see if they would stick" negatively, as if they didn't care, didn't want to take the time to work things out, and ultimately couldn't come up with a strategy. So, what the heck, let's just throw something out and maybe it'll work, maybe the fans will like it. I don't think they operated that way; I'll give them credit for that. Again, I think some thought was given to each album project, and some decisions were reached. They just didn't come to the right conclusions. Simply, they made the wrong decisions. I don't have to list all of the questionable moves; you know them, but there's the 15 Big Ones debacle, the choice of Al Jardine, Bruce Johnston, and Steve Levine as producers, the 11-minute disco "Here Comes The Night" put on the album, no Dennis songs on Keepin' The Summer Alive, the Brian-dominated/lack of group participation That's Why God Made The Radio, no follow-up to "Kokomo", the disgrace that was Summer In Paradise, the album titles M.I.U Album and L.A. (Light Album) - and these don't even include many of the questionable early 1970's decisions. This wasn't just throwing stuff at the wall, hoping it would connect. These were planned, discussed (to some extent), negotiated strategies. They just happened to be wrong ones.
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 19, 2024 14:58:04 GMT
Oh, OK. That is just a very different interpretation of "throwing stuff at the wall" than I have. (I can't speak for KDS, obviously.) To me, that isn't involved at all. I definitely think they thought about it all.
To me, it's just that it was obvious there was no consistently unified vision, right or wrong. There were constantly pushing and pulling intraband dynamics and leadership influences resulting in trying everything, but not trying anything for very long. So every album was different than the one before it, and none were especially successful. To me, that's "throwing stuff at the wall." I said it before, but it's the oldies album, the Brian album, the Mike/Al Iowa album, the Carl-Dennis yacht rock album, the Bruce throwback album, the Levine synth pop album, the Mike catastrophes of the late 80s and early 90s, the confusing country self-covers background vocal guest stops album.
I don't think any of those albums weren't thought through. I just think it's evidence they had no unified vision, no reason behind their work anymore other than touring and maintaining the revenues of the Beach Boys brand.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 19, 2024 15:29:17 GMT
Oh, OK. That is just a very different interpretation of "throwing stuff at the wall" than I have. (I can't speak for KDS, obviously.) To me, that isn't involved at all. I definitely think they thought about it all. To me, it's just that it was obvious there was no consistently unified vision, right or wrong. There were constantly pushing and pulling intraband dynamics and leadership influences resulting in trying everything, but not trying anything for very long. So every album was different than the one before it, and none were especially successful. To me, that's "throwing stuff at the wall." I said it before, but it's the oldies album, the Brian album, the Mike/Al Iowa album, the Carl-Dennis yacht rock album, the Bruce throwback album, the Levine synth pop album, the Mike catastrophes of the late 80s and early 90s, the confusing country self-covers background vocal guest stops album. I don't think any of those albums weren't thought through. I just think it's evidence they had no unified vision, no reason behind their work anymore other than touring and maintaining the revenues of the Beach Boys brand. I definitely agree with you that there was no consistently unified vision, and that would lead to every album being different than the one before it. That's why I mentioned that, while there might've been meetings and discussions, who knows what condition some of the guys were in, how much did they even care, and how intelligently were the meetings conducted. And that's a pretty sad thing to say, but I believe it. For example, I guarantee if Brian Wilson said that he wanted to record a bunch of oldies for 15 Big Ones, they were gonna record a bunch of oldies - no matter what condition Brian was in, no matter what Dennis wanted, no matter what Al thought, and no matter what would've been the "correct" decision for a new Beach Boys' album in 1976. That's just one example. In 1978, Brian feels that he's not up to producing the next album and he decides to call Bruce Johnston. Who knows what transpired from there. Again, I'm sure were some discussions, but were they hasty, involving all bands members, and did they ultimately arrive at the correct decision? Did or didn't they have any foresight, better foresight? I seriously question their foresight.
I could go on. Obviously I'm still passionate about these things. I thought the guys still had enough talent post-1973 to do great things, but what's the cliche? They couldn't punch their way out of a wet paper bag? No, that's not the right one, but you know what I mean.
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Post by kds on Jan 19, 2024 15:51:01 GMT
Oh no, I dont think they didn't care. If they didn't care, I don't think they'd have bothered trying so many things.
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