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Post by kds on Apr 3, 2024 20:28:25 GMT
I think the Brian album that would've most benefitted from the input of the other Beach Boys would be BW '88. For starters, Brian is, IMO, not great vocally on that album, so it would've been nice to have a few lead vocals here and there from Mike, Carl, and Al. Plus, I think the album's fairly uneven. Maybe take out something like Night Time for something that Mike and Terry were doing at the time. Obviously, the harmony vocals would've been miles better. I agree with that generally, but that's excluded from this question: the album has to stay as-is except for hypothetical vocals. Ah, sorry, yes, reading is fundamental KDS. And, I did completely misread the assignment. I'm not sure if there are any BW solo albums that I could imagine not being improved with BB vocals. Maybe the Christmas album because I really do think it might be Brian's best sounding solo album, and I enjoy the arrangements of that album so much that I'm not really sure if some Mike, Al, and Bruce vocals would've made much of a difference.
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Post by Kapitan on Apr 3, 2024 20:32:52 GMT
I'm sure I'd like them all, but the one I was thinking I'd care least to see changed would be Disney, just because I don't really care about that album anyway. And honestly maybe Gershwin, almost for the opposite reason: I think that was really more appropriate to be Brian's baby.
On the other end, I think TLOS would have been a masterpiece (as it almost is anyway), and maybe the biggest jump in quality would have been GIOIMH, because its vocals are its biggest flaw.
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Post by kds on Apr 3, 2024 20:39:39 GMT
I'm sure I'd like them all, but the one I was thinking I'd care least to see changed would be Disney, just because I don't really care about that album anyway. And honestly maybe Gershwin, almost for the opposite reason: I think that was really more appropriate to be Brian's baby. On the other end, I think TLOS would have been a masterpiece (as it almost is anyway), and maybe the biggest jump in quality would have been GIOIMH, because its vocals are its biggest flaw. I agree GIOMH would benefit the most. And I'd go back to BW88. Imagine One For the Boys with Brian, Carl, Mike, Al, and Bruce.
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Post by lonelysummer on Apr 3, 2024 20:50:27 GMT
I've tried, but I just can't imagine the Beach Boys of 1988 singing those Brian Wilson songs. They were at different places musically. I can't even explain it, but the week Love and Mercy and Kokomo were released, I played both side by side, and Kokomo felt very familiar, kind of a cousin to California Dreamin'. Love and Mercy had a different sound to it.
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Post by Kapitan on Apr 3, 2024 21:00:22 GMT
But one I can easily imagine is Carl taking the lead on "Melt Away." That would have been incredible.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Apr 3, 2024 23:41:53 GMT
My question is: does anyone here prefer any Brian Wilson albums as-is over their (imagined) Beach Boys version, assuming that any Beach Boys contributions would have been of those surviving Beach Boys at their ages when those albums were released (i.e., you can't put Carl on That Lucky Old Sun, or Dennis on anything) and all other aspects of those albums were identical (song selection, arrangements, instrumental tracks)? Or do you believe in every case that the Beach Boys' voices would have improved those albums? I do not prefer any Brian Wilson solo albums as-is over their (imagined) Beach Boys version. I believe in every case that the Beach Boys' voices would have improved those albums. The solo Brian Wilson did not have a good enough or versatile enough voice to carry an entire album. It is the second biggest flaw (the songwriting being the first) on all of his solo albums. His vocals - lead and background - contributed significantly to his not having a commercially successful album or single. He never came close to a hit single. But, he tried. And tried. And tried again. It was decided that he was gonna be a solo artist, and by God, he did.
I know it's not specifically your question, and you can limit it to just the vocal aspect (it still applies), but as a longtime diehard fan, Brian Wilson releasing solo albums for a quarter of a century - instead of Beach Boys' albums - is near the top of my list of biggest disappointments or regrets. When I think what we could've had and what we got, well, it still frustrates me. The history books will disagree. Brian will be praised for that aspect of his career. Oh, well. Whatever.
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Post by lonelysummer on Apr 4, 2024 5:01:54 GMT
I am much more a fan of Brian releasing solo albums of new material - either his, or someone else's, like Van Dyke Parks - than putting him on an endless cycle of 'Beach Boys greatest hits' tours - the part of his career that most fans fell in love with. I loved the 1988 solo debut; loved IJWMFTT (after getting over my initial disappointment that it was all remakes), OCA, and Imagination. After that, I find his albums were very hit and miss. I wanted to love GIOMH so much, but ultimately, it just failed to grab me. BWPS is the one solo album where I felt I really need to hear the voices of Mike, Carl, Al, Bruce and Dennis. The group did a great job instrumentally, but you just can't replace those voices. NPP must rate high on some people's lists because it's got so many guests vocalists, but that's one of the things I don't like about it. Al is credited on several songs, but I can't pick him out. The others, other than Zooey, I really don't care about. If NPP really had to have guest singers on it, why not toss a few leads to Al? Wendy? Carnie?
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Post by Kapitan on Apr 4, 2024 11:40:54 GMT
NPP must rate high on some people's lists because it's got so many guests vocalists, but that's one of the things I don't like about it. Al is credited on several songs, but I can't pick him out. The others, other than Zooey, I really don't care about. If NPP really had to have guest singers on it, why not toss a few leads to Al? Wendy? Carnie? I don't think I've ever heard of anybody who liked NPP because of the guest vocalists. But as for tossing a few leads to Al ... he did. Al sings or shares leads on four songs. Five on the deluxe version.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Apr 4, 2024 11:49:06 GMT
NPP must rate high on some people's lists because it's got so many guests vocalists, but that's one of the things I don't like about it. Al is credited on several songs, but I can't pick him out. The others, other than Zooey, I really don't care about. If NPP really had to have guest singers on it, why not toss a few leads to Al? Wendy? Carnie? I don't think I've ever heard of anybody who liked NPP because of the guest vocalists. But as for tossing a few leads to Al ... he did. Al sings or shares leads on four songs. Five on the deluxe version. ...and, in my opinion, supports the argument for the Beach Boys' voices on Brian's solo songs.
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Post by Kapitan on Apr 4, 2024 12:09:47 GMT
I don't think I've ever heard of anybody who liked NPP because of the guest vocalists. But as for tossing a few leads to Al ... he did. Al sings or shares leads on four songs. Five on the deluxe version....and, in my opinion, supports the argument for the Beach Boys' voices on Brian's solo songs. Oh, I am not arguing against that. Brian had some very nice vocals on his albums through the years, but they were often shouty or strained early and just shaky and weak by NPP. I absolutely think the others could have helped a lot.
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Post by kds on Apr 4, 2024 14:21:30 GMT
I am much more a fan of Brian releasing solo albums of new material - either his, or someone else's, like Van Dyke Parks - than putting him on an endless cycle of 'Beach Boys greatest hits' tours - the part of his career that most fans fell in love with. I loved the 1988 solo debut; loved IJWMFTT (after getting over my initial disappointment that it was all remakes), OCA, and Imagination. After that, I find his albums were very hit and miss. I wanted to love GIOMH so much, but ultimately, it just failed to grab me. BWPS is the one solo album where I felt I really need to hear the voices of Mike, Carl, Al, Bruce and Dennis. The group did a great job instrumentally, but you just can't replace those voices. NPP must rate high on some people's lists because it's got so many guests vocalists, but that's one of the things I don't like about it. Al is credited on several songs, but I can't pick him out. The others, other than Zooey, I really don't care about. If NPP really had to have guest singers on it, why not toss a few leads to Al? Wendy? Carnie? You can't pick out Al's vocals on Whatever Happened, Tell Me Why, The Right Time, Sail Away, or Somewhere Quiet (Deluxe)?
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Apr 4, 2024 16:30:20 GMT
...and, in my opinion, supports the argument for the Beach Boys' voices on Brian's solo songs. Oh, I am not arguing against that. Brian had some very nice vocals on his albums through the years, but they were often shouty or strained early and just shaky and weak by NPP. I absolutely think the others could have helped a lot. I wasn't disagreeing with or questioning your opinion(s) but more reinforcing mine. If one is looking for examples of some Brian Wilson solo songs with Beach Boys' voices to hear what they would sound like, go no further than the five or six Al Jardine-sung songs on No Pier Pressure. Or better yet, check out That's Why God Made The Radio. The Carl Wilson sample size is obviously much smaller, but how about "Soul Searchin'".
Do you hear what we missed out on all those years?
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Post by lonelysummer on Apr 4, 2024 22:10:36 GMT
I am much more a fan of Brian releasing solo albums of new material - either his, or someone else's, like Van Dyke Parks - than putting him on an endless cycle of 'Beach Boys greatest hits' tours - the part of his career that most fans fell in love with. I loved the 1988 solo debut; loved IJWMFTT (after getting over my initial disappointment that it was all remakes), OCA, and Imagination. After that, I find his albums were very hit and miss. I wanted to love GIOMH so much, but ultimately, it just failed to grab me. BWPS is the one solo album where I felt I really need to hear the voices of Mike, Carl, Al, Bruce and Dennis. The group did a great job instrumentally, but you just can't replace those voices. NPP must rate high on some people's lists because it's got so many guests vocalists, but that's one of the things I don't like about it. Al is credited on several songs, but I can't pick him out. The others, other than Zooey, I really don't care about. If NPP really had to have guest singers on it, why not toss a few leads to Al? Wendy? Carnie? You can't pick out Al's vocals on Whatever Happened, Tell Me Why, The Right Time, Sail Away, or Somewhere Quiet (Deluxe)? No I can't. Maybe it's too much AutoTune.
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Post by B.E. on Apr 5, 2024 1:02:27 GMT
My question is: does anyone here prefer any Brian Wilson albums as-is over their (imagined) Beach Boys version, assuming that any Beach Boys contributions would have been of those surviving Beach Boys at their ages when those albums were released (i.e., you can't put Carl on That Lucky Old Sun, or Dennis on anything) and all other aspects of those albums were identical (song selection, arrangements, instrumental tracks)? Or do you believe in every case that the Beach Boys' voices would have improved those albums? In a way, I think that's almost two different questions: preferring an album as-is versus would Beach Boys voices improve the album. Or maybe I just need to add the word "significantly" before "improve" in order to get over my hangup. Hmm, let me try to approach this one at a time. Brian Wilson - Keeping in mind that everything else about the album remains identical...I think I prefer it as-is. Does that mean that I think Brian sings every vocal part on the album better than any other Beach Boy possibly could? No, of course not. But I don't want to dilute the Brian-ness of that album one bit. It's not like the album is otherwise screaming "Beach Boys"; it sounds like a solo effort. Granted I am a big fan of this album. And I like Brian's singing on it. Nah, I wouldn't change it. (That said, would I be interested in hearing this theoretical remix album? Heck yeah!) I Just Wasn't Made For These Times - Brian's worst vocal album of his career. Of course, Beach Boys vocals would significantly improve it, but what would be the point of that? Despite not enjoying this one very much, I actually think I prefer it as-is. I rarely listen to it, but I'd probably never listen to a Beach Boys version when I have the originals. Orange Crate Art - On this one I'd prefer Beach Boys vocals. Maybe that would get me a bit more interested in it. Imagination - I'm on the fence. I guess the production here would fit 90s Carl. It's kind of hard to hear this as a Beach Boys album, though. And Brian sings so well on this album. It's possible I end up even more disappointed in the production if it's a Beach Boys album as opposed to a solo excursion (i.e. lower stakes). Keep as-is. Gettin' In Over My Head - Undoubtedly, Beach Boys vocals would improve this album, and I wouldn't miss much of Brian's replaced vocal parts. It's also the most "Beach Boys" album of Brian's solo career. It fits. It would be a significant improvement. Brian Wilson Presents Smile - While a Beach Boys version is enticing, I think Brian and his band do too good of a job. And perhaps more importantly, it's just more fitting. We hear the Beach Boys sing on the original recordings. This was a new, different version. What I Really Want For Christmas - Again, I'm keeping it as-is. I like the vocals on this album a lot. I'd really miss Taylor Mills' singing during this era. And I honestly can't imagine Mike, Al, and Bruce in 2005 outperforming Brian's band. I already have a Beach Boys Christmas album; it's one of my favorite albums. That Lucky Old Sun - Hmm. I'm honestly very hesitant to alter what we have, but I guess I'll go with the Beach Boys mainly because I do think the material, and production, fits the other Beach Boys very well. In other words, I can hear this as a Beach Boys album pretty easily. In reality, though, I'm not convinced the remaining Beach Boys, collectively, still had the vocal chops to improve it (let alone, significantly improve it). Still, I'll go Beach Boys...warily. Gershwin and Disney - Keep as-is. Wouldn't make sense nor could the Beach Boys improve on the fantastic singing. These albums need the youthfulness of Brian's band. No Pier Pressure - I'll go Beach Boys but only if we keep all of Brian's parts. Replace the guest singers with the other Beach Boys? Fine. Oh, and we're keeping Matt's singing, too. Sorry, Bruce. Long Promised Road - Keep as-is. Again, just wouldn't make sense to change. It would only be more disjointed and would lose the charm its got. So, that's 8 'keep as-is' to 4 'Beach Boys'.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Apr 5, 2024 11:24:28 GMT
B.E., in your above points regarding I Just Wasn't Made For These Times, you used the phrase - "What would be the point of that?" Again, I could apply that question to all of Brian's solo albums in general, and in keeping with the purpose of this thread, specifically the vocals on the albums. Over the years, I can't tell you how many times I've come to that...conclusion...or asked that question, but in another way.
Brian got to a point in his Beach Boys' career where he basically stopped singing. Post-Friends and up to 15 Big Ones, Brian basically disappeared as a lead vocalist. He then sang (rather poorly at times) in 1976-77 and disappeared again. I would describe his 1985 and 1989 vocals as shouty. Then, in the late 1980s and again in the late 1990s, Brian (or somebody) decided he was gonna be a solo artist and he HAD to sing entire albums. And we were supposed to think or accept him as...qualified? I guess we did. We didn't have a choice.
Or did we? B.E., you also mentioned above that you miss Taylor Mills' singing. While she did/does have a pleasant voice, I can't say that her vocal work especially stood out to me. But, your point is well-taken, and I'll go one step further. It got to the point in Brian's solo career where I actually would've welcomed more of a group approach or a "spreading around" of lead vocals. You did have Jeff Foskett and Darian Sahanaja in the band, and they could've handled a song or two. And, speaking of Taylor Mills, it might've been interesting to hear a female lead vocal on one of Brian's solo songs like the 1960s with The Honeys and Spring, and with Marilyn on Love You. Now, there was very little chance of that happening. Again, you can say "What's the point?" "They" were selling Brian Wilson and it was Brian Wilson who we were gonna get!
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