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Post by lonelysummer on Jan 8, 2023 2:11:28 GMT
As you guys know, I'm a fan of Christmas music. And, like many of you, I grew up and spent several Christmases with the same handful of Christmas albums. And that was a good thing! That's what built family Christmas memories, and I cherish them. Now, in my case, those handful of Christmas albums were a bit on the older side - Perry Como Sings Merry Christmas Music, Mario Lanza Sings Christmas Carols, Sammy Kaye Christmas Day, and others. My family/I never really expanded on that small batch of Christmas albums...until The Beach Boys' Christmas Album. And that was my doing.
I discovered The Beach Boys' Christmas Album fairly early in my Beach Boys' fandom, and I liked it very much. Obviously "Little Saint Nick" was the highlight, and "We Three Kings", "Frosty The Snowman", and "White Christmas" were keepers, too. I mean, those four songs alone were enough to...like...the album. Brian Wilson's vocals alone were special. I believe they are among the best and most underrated of his career. I could kind of get into "the fast side". Yes, the BB formula - and that's what those fast songs are - are nice. So, the Christmas album worked its way into our family Christmas, whether they wanted it or not. Seriously, I made a point to give it its share of spins every Christmas season.
50 years later? Not so much. Now, one reason is that I expanded my Christmas music catalogue extensively. There is so much more music to listen to. But, honestly, I've become more critical of The Beach Boys' Christmas Album. There are two basic reasons. The first is the sequencing. I'm just not a fan of that fast side/slow side philosophy (also employed on the follow-up album, Today!). Frankly, Side 2 can turn into a snoozefest. One slow song after another. But the second reason has more to do with the faster, original compositions. Nevermind that they are barely Christmasey (pun intended), but I question how good they really are. They sound underproduced and not creatively arranged. They are almost stripped. Oh, they're OK, probably good, and I certainly like parts of all of the songs. Any 1964 songs written by Brian Wilson and sung by Mike Love and the guys are going to have some merit. But I'll ask this question - What if "Merry Christmas Baby", "The Man With All The Toys", "Christmas Day", and "Santa's Beard" appeared on All Summer Song or The Beach Boys' Today!? I'll even go back to Little Deuce Coupe and Shut Down Vol. 2 - with different lyrics of course. Would they be highlights or even among the better songs on those albums?
Maybe for years I was probably subconsciously frustrated with The Beach Boys' Christmas Album because of what it was NOT, and that would be A Christmas Gift For You From Phil Spector. I don't have a big problem with Dick Reynolds' arrangements on the slow songs, though I think Brian could've (should've ) used The Wrecking Crew for the arranging. But, those fast songs...were they quickies? Is that the sound Brian really wanted? For a Christmas album? Hey, where were the sleigh bells? And "Jingle Bells"? "Sleigh Ride"? "Winter Wonderland" anyone? Side two puts me to sleep. Agree they should have mixed the two different styles up. The originals sound fine to me, though. Christmas Day would be a standout on any BBs album. My gut tells me, though, that Brian's heart was really into the Dick Reynolds stuff. There's an interview for that album where he refers to side two as "the modern side" and side one as "our own style side". How the heck is the orchestral stuff more modern than the rock and roll stuff?
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Post by lonelysummer on Jan 8, 2023 2:19:44 GMT
I see this has turned into the BWPS (which my mind still reads as "Brian Wilson's Pet Sounds") thread, but back to the original topic - and album my opinion has changed on - for the better. Back in 1995, I got an album (vinyl, no less!) called "Lost and Found" - I had never seen it before; this is on the Sundazed label, and it's all Candix recordings. I got it as a completist. Only played it a couple times then put it away. I put it on again last year and found myself really enjoying it. I'm not saying it's top notch Beach Boys material, but It's something I can play often and not get sick of it. At this point, I probably like about as much as the first Capitol album.
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Post by lonelysummer on Jan 8, 2023 2:20:17 GMT
Oh, I'm a dope, I put this in the wrong thread.
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Emdeeh
Pacific Coast Highway
Posts: 520
Likes: 532
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Post by Emdeeh on Jan 8, 2023 2:27:15 GMT
For me, BWPS took a back seat when TSS came out... Same here. As far as I'm concerned, TSS is the real Smile -- at least as close as we're gonna get. The thing for me about the studio BWPS is that there's at least one recording of the live Smile (the PBS one) that captures the energy and spirit much better than the studio recording. I'm grateful all this exists, but when I want to hear BWPS these days, I go for the PBS tracks.
One thing I've expected to see, but haven't yet, is college music programs putting on their own live performances of Smile.
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sockit
The Surfer Moon
Posts: 234
Likes: 181
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Post by sockit on Jan 8, 2023 2:51:15 GMT
Oh, I'm a dope, I put this in the wrong thread. No I think it's open to <better or >worse. At least that's how I'm reading it. With that, I mentioned in the Shoutbox that I didn't like Pet Sounds the first time I heard it. Then it became (and remains) my favorite album of all time. Since that post will soon disappear, I shall immortalize my thoughts on that album here. When the twofer CDs were released in the early 1990s, I made a plan to buy them in order (although my first purchase of those was actually Surfer Girl/Shut Down Vol 2, since the store was out of SS/SUSA). The standalone Pet Sounds was available, of course, but I opted to wait until I got to that point in my collection. I knew nothing about the album itself, other than what Rolling Stone Magazine had historically reported about it. Well, when I got to that point in my collection, I listened through the whole album, and wondered so what's the big deal? I already had the big 4 songs that I knew at the time on my Made in USA comp. The rest of the songs like You Still Believe in Me, I Know There's an Answer, etc, just didn't do anything for me. And I Just Wasn't Made For These Times just struck me as weird! Weird!!! I put the CD away and rarely listened to it. What brought me around was the stereo mix, but that was the 1999 single disc since I had passed on the boxed set. That's when I really got it, and realized what an amazing, awesome production that album was! I've been in love with it ever since.
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Post by jk on Jan 8, 2023 12:30:37 GMT
For me, BWPS took a back seat when TSS came out... Same here. As far as I'm concerned, TSS is the real Smile -- at least as close as we're gonna get. The thing for me about the studio BWPS is that there's at least one recording of the live Smile (the PBS one) that captures the energy and spirit much better than the studio recording. I'm grateful all this exists, but when I want to hear BWPS these days, I go for the PBS tracks.
One thing I've expected to see, but haven't yet, is college music programs putting on their own live performances of Smile.
Well, it eventually took a back seat in my world too, but in a different way. This is lifted from the BWPS thread: "I think I must have been the only person on the planet who hadn't heard a bootleg SMiLE mix before BWPS was released. Oh I was acquainted with the tracks included on the GV box set and I'd heard some random SMiLE sessions. But that was all. "For a while after buying it, I was of the unshakeable opinion that 'this was it'. As if Brian had given fans these wonderful songs to do what they liked with but now he was taking them back. They were his again -- and in this order. There was so much of BWPS that I'd never heard before and that was what stole my heart for a while. I rejected the idea of personal SMiLE mixes as being presumptuous and downright disrespectful. After all, Brian had spoken. "But then I started having doubts. The sound was too trebly, and the bootlegs sessions I'd heard had these booming bass lines that just weren't there in BWPS. Combined with the fact that the first performance as filmed in Beautiful Dreamer seemed more like a circus than a concert. I began cautiously investigating personal SMiLE mixes and found I actually enjoyed them! Then I discovered Aquarian SMiLE, sans 'Good Vibrations' (whose inclusion as the 'romp home' in BWPS had never struck me as satisfactory). And I've stayed with it ever since. "
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 8, 2023 12:39:34 GMT
Oh, I'm a dope, I put this in the wrong thread. No I think it's open to <better or >worse. At least that's how I'm reading it. With that, I mentioned in the Shoutbox that I didn't like Pet Sounds the first time I heard it. Then it became (and remains) my favorite album of all time. You're correct that the thread has a few things going on (and more to come). A week or so ago it was resurrected with the temporary topic of albums that have grown on us; then it changed to those we've soured on--but there is no deadline, so other "grower" stories are fine. Soon it'll change again. But it's all cumulative, all sub/temp topics are fair game. Regarding Pet Sounds, I hadn't remembered until you mentioned it, but it was a grower for me, too. Somewhere circa 1997-98, I kept seeing it on lists of greatest albums, but I was not only not a fan of the Beach Boys, but an opponent of the caricature I had of them. I ordered the CD of Pet Sounds along with several others from the best-albums lists. When I listened, I had to admit it wasn't at all what I had mocked the Beach Boys for being ... but I wasn't quite sure what it was. Rock and roll as I heard it had more, and more prominent, guitars. This had, what, accordions, saxes, organs, vibraphones, and auxiliary percussion? Yet it didn't fit remotely with my other nontraditional rock love, Frank Zappa, either. It was confusing. However, I came to love it pretty quickly. I don't remember exactly how long it took, but certainly under a year.
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sockit
The Surfer Moon
Posts: 234
Likes: 181
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Post by sockit on Jan 8, 2023 17:22:00 GMT
No I think it's open to <better or >worse. At least that's how I'm reading it. With that, I mentioned in the Shoutbox that I didn't like Pet Sounds the first time I heard it. Then it became (and remains) my favorite album of all time. You're correct that the thread has a few things going on (and more to come). A week or so ago it was resurrected with the temporary topic of albums that have grown on us; then it changed to those we've soured on--but there is no deadline, so other "grower" stories are fine. Soon it'll change again. But it's all cumulative, all sub/temp topics are fair game. Regarding Pet Sounds, I hadn't remembered until you mentioned it, but it was a grower for me, too. Somewhere circa 1997-98, I kept seeing it on lists of greatest albums, but I was not only not a fan of the Beach Boys, but an opponent of the caricature I had of them. I ordered the CD of Pet Sounds along with several others from the best-albums lists. When I listened, I had to admit it wasn't at all what I had mocked the Beach Boys for being ... but I wasn't quite sure what it was. Rock and roll as I heard it had more, and more prominent, guitars. This had, what, accordions, saxes, organs, vibraphones, and auxiliary percussion? Yet it didn't fit remotely with my other nontraditional rock love, Frank Zappa, either. It was confusing. However, I came to love it pretty quickly. I don't remember exactly how long it took, but certainly under a year. I remember the song that opened the gate for me (beyond the "big 4" that I mentioned earlier): Here Today. That instrumental bridge. I was watching An American Band for the umpteenth time and the segment in the studio came on with that middle 8 (or more accurately middle 16, right?), and this time something clicked. I dug out my CD of Pet Sounds and listened to Here Today in headphones and was completely thrilled. After giving the entire album a fresh listen, I never looked back. To this day, Here Today remains one of my favorites on PS, but they're all great!
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Post by B.E. on Jan 8, 2023 18:35:20 GMT
I've been pondering this thread for days, but I think the reality is that there aren't any BBs related albums that my opinion has changed significantly on. I think when I really dug into their catalog about 10 years ago, I did so with a very open mindset and luckily enjoyed just about everything (to at least some degree). Even when I was younger, when I was a casual fan, I liked everything I heard. As a result, I think it's easier to point to material that I'm not quite as high on, now that the newness has passed. But whether my appreciation of certain albums have grown or lessened over the years...let me be clear now...the change is not dramatic. That said, here are some examples I've thought of:
Greater appreciation: Surfin' USA - I now enjoy the album as a whole. Little Deuce Coupe - As a casual fan I was more interested in the surfing theme and also didn't appreciate how relatively strong the album was (i.e. no filler). Friends - I heard this as a casual fan, and while I was stoked to learn there was more quality BBs albums to discover, I wouldn't have thought it would become one of my favorites. CATP - I've come to consider this an underrated album of the era (among diehards). KTSA - Where the other albums of the era have dipped a bit in my estimation, this one has at least held steady. I think it just hangs together as an album a bit better with no really low lows or particularly jarring production. In the Key of Disney - Beyond the strong vocals, I think I've come to enjoy the songs themselves a bit more.
Less appreciation: Shut Down Vol. 2 - The amount of filler and poor sequencing. SDSN - Inconsistent production values and poor sequencing. A step (or two) backward from Today! Surf's Up - I've come to consider this an overrated album of the era (among diehards and critics). Love You - I still love it, but not quite as much as I used to. MIU - Initially, I thought this album was underrated. Fans really seemed to trash it 10 years ago. But my opinion has probably reverted to the mean a bit. And all of a sudden some fans really seem to be defending it. Now I actually think it might be overrated (among diehards). TWGMTR - Again, it's sort of the newness, and in this case excitement of a reunion, wearing off. I like it and think of it favorably. But I listen to it much less. (And, honestly, I never listened to it a lot.)
As you can probably tell, when I really dove into their catalog 10 years ago, I also discovered the online community at the same time. I was reading everyone's opinions, recognizing the consensus on each album, and comparing and contrasting that with my experience listening to many of their albums for the first time. I often thought the negative opinions were overstated, as I liked everything. But at the same time I was also more likely to go along with the consensus due to my relative lack of familiarity with the music. Only later becoming more certain and confident of my opinions regarding the group and their music. And while with repeated listening my opinions are now a bit more balanced/conservative/realistic, I still like nearly all their albums. I wouldn't be here if I didn't.
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 9, 2023 12:51:32 GMT
CATP - I've come to consider this an underrated album of the era (among diehards). This is another one I could have listed as growing in my estimation. I initially was really lukewarm on it, at best. I got it as part of the twofer with Holland, and thought the latter was far, far better. Other than Mess of Help and Marcella, in fact, I found it more or less unnecessary. Of course, that was my "Brian Wilson is the point" phase, so the things that lacked him were behind the 8-ball. I've really come around on it to the point that I don't necessarily think it's much inferior to Holland, and I actually like it quite a bit from start to finish. It's still not among my favorites, but it's definitely really strong, and much better than I'd initially thought about it.
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 10, 2023 12:03:21 GMT
All right, without a lot of chatter on albums on which we've soured, how about moving right along to another subtopic? (Feel free to continue with either of the previous ones, too, if you'd like.)
What is a Beach Boys (or related) song that has grown in your estimation over time?
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Post by kds on Jan 10, 2023 13:44:15 GMT
There's a couple later tracks that come to mind
Goin On - I've never been a big fan of KTSA, and even this song I somewhat overlooked over the years.
It's Getting Late - Earlier on, I said that BB85 was a grower for me. This song is a big reason why. From the opening wash of vocals and very very mid 80s synths to Carl's lead, it's a song I've really come to appreciate.
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Emdeeh
Pacific Coast Highway
Posts: 520
Likes: 532
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Post by Emdeeh on Jan 10, 2023 14:10:09 GMT
"Hold on Dear Brother" has grown quite a lot on me. I've always liked it in a general way, interesting with its country-rock flavor and supportive lyrics, but not very BB-ish. Then I saw Nate Reuss perform HODB with Blondie and Ricky on the BBs 50th Brian Wilson and Friends tribute special. What a performance! That gave me new insights on the song and a deeper appreciation for something I'd taken for granted.
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 10, 2023 14:25:49 GMT
That was a fun one to see. (Minor quibble/correction: I don't think those two were involved in any 50th events, but they performed that at the No Pier Pressure Vegas show that happened prior to the release of the album.) I thought Nate Ruess did a great job on No Pier Pressure, as well as on those songs he did live that show.
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Post by kds on Jan 10, 2023 14:45:20 GMT
"Hold on Dear Brother" has grown quite a lot on me. I've always liked it in a general way, interesting with its country-rock flavor and supportive lyrics, but not very BB-ish. Then I saw Nate Reuss perform HODB with Blondie and Ricky on the BBs 50th tribute special. What a performance! That gave me new insights on the song and a deeper appreciation for something I'd taken for granted. YES!!! This was the same for me. It was actually the BW and Friends Soundstage show, but that's exactly when I really first took notice of the song.
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