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Post by Kapitan on Aug 9, 2023 15:03:13 GMT
With 10 voters so far--which I think is roughly what we typically get for each of these polls--it's interesting to see that there are no unanimous choices. I actually thought several of these (particularly from Pet Sounds) would be unanimous. The closest to consensus picks as of now are:
Pet Sounds: - 9 votes for "Wouldn't It Be Nice" and "God Only Knows"
Smile: - 8 votes for "Good Vibrations"
I'm not surprised that those three are the leading vote-getters (along with "Sloop John B." coming in third among the PS tracks and tied with "Good Vibrations" for third overall), but I did think at least those two 9s would be unanimous. "Wouldn't It Be Nice" and "God Only Knows" not cracking someone's Top 10 of 1966 Beach Boys songs is quite a contrarian position.
It's funny that "Sloop" rates so highly. I agree, myself, but I also remember people arguing that a) it wasn't that good, and b) it definitely was subpar compared to Pet Sounds and didn't belong on that album. I think its reputation has climbed over the past two decades.
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Post by kds on Aug 9, 2023 15:31:57 GMT
With 10 voters so far--which I think is roughly what we typically get for each of these polls--it's interesting to see that there are no unanimous choices. I actually thought several of these (particularly from Pet Sounds) would be unanimous. The closest to consensus picks as of now are: Pet Sounds:- 9 votes for "Wouldn't It Be Nice" and "God Only Knows" Smile:- 8 votes for "Good Vibrations" I'm not surprised that those three are the leading vote-getters (along with "Sloop John B." coming in third among the PS tracks and tied with "Good Vibrations" for third overall), but I did think at least those two 9s would be unanimous. "Wouldn't It Be Nice" and "God Only Knows" not cracking someone's Top 10 of 1966 Beach Boys songs is quite a contrarian position. It's funny that "Sloop" rates so highly. I agree, myself, but I also remember people arguing that a) it wasn't that good, and b) it definitely was subpar compared to Pet Sounds and didn't belong on that album. I think its reputation has climbed over the past two decades. Oh wow, I didn't realize that there were ten voters. I just assumed WIBN and GOK were unanimous.
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Post by B.E. on Aug 9, 2023 16:03:54 GMT
JK voted for five voteless Pet Sounds tracks (as of his post on Sunday) over WIBN and GOK. I would be interested to know if he really prefers those other tracks or if WIBN and GOK really are unanimous favorites among our group here.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 9, 2023 16:36:07 GMT
JK voted for five voteless Pet Sounds tracks (as of his post on Sunday) over WIBN and GOK. I would be interested to know if he really prefers those other tracks or if WIBN and GOK really are unanimous favorites among our group here. Ah, another one of those feeling bad for the voteless songs situations. Everyone can vote as s/he pleases, but those strategies do complicate trying to get a grip on people's actual opinions.
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Barco
Denny's Drums
Posts: 41
Likes: 72
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Post by Barco on Aug 10, 2023 17:48:46 GMT
I know the question isn't directed at me but I want to chip in my interpretation on this project vs album discussion. I think there's a case to be made for the differentiation on the case of Smile. It'd be fair to especifically call it a project rather than an album because it's unfinished. That is, Smile never really got to be an album, and since it was abandoned before completion, it will forever be stuck as that, a project, unfinished, left behind and never completed. Not that the way I or anyone calls it, be it album or project, matters much to me. I'm comfortable with Smile being referred to as either of them because, y'know, it's just a naming thing after all. The music is still the same no matter what you call it. My view on the matter seems to directly contradict jk's comment, though, so I'm curious to hear his side of things. I'm not sure I follow you, Barco. Perhaps you'd like to expand on that. No problem, jk. What I understood from your initial post, you can't apply the 'unfinished' label on Smile owing to the fact you consider it a project rather than an album. My view on it, however, is that there's a case to be made for calling Smile a project instead of an album because it's unfinished. So I see a dichotomy here. I see it may still not be clear what I'm trying to say. I really suck at putting thoughts into writing
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Post by jk on Aug 10, 2023 19:20:54 GMT
I'm not sure I follow you, Barco. Perhaps you'd like to expand on that. No problem, jk. What I understood from your initial post, you can't apply the 'unfinished' label on Smile owing to the fact you consider it a project rather than an album. My view on it, however, is that there's a case to be made for calling Smile a project instead of an album because it's unfinished. So I see a dichotomy here. I see it may still not be clear what I'm trying to say. I really suck at putting thoughts into writing Not at all, B. I obviously didn't make myself clear. I most certainly would apply the "unfinished" label to SMiLE precisely because it is a project! I don't accept the structure Brian and others shoehorned it into in BWPS. It's still anybody's, in my view -- in any order. It's certainly given rise to some fabulous mixes -- and I hope there are many more to come. My favourite incorporates the comedy skits that were to be so important to SMiLE, yet simply fell by the wayside in the BW-sanctioned, "official" version. As a project, SMiLE's great strength is its open-endedness. Long may it stay that way!
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Post by lonelysummer on Aug 11, 2023 20:30:06 GMT
I'm surprised there wasn't more love for Caroline, No. That song is very special to me.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 11, 2023 20:44:31 GMT
I'm surprised there wasn't more love for Caroline, No. That song is very special to me. I love it, but it didn't make my list. As I had said in my first post in this thread, I think I could make a Top 10 just of Pet Sounds and feel bad about what's left off it... So for me, once I added in the likes of "Our Prayer," "Heroes and Villains," "Surf's Up," "Cabinessence," and "Good Vibrations" for consideration, I mean, what was I going to cut!? There was just no winning on this one for me. At least 15-18 songs deserve Top 10 status for 1966, in my opinion. (Including "Caroline, No," which is absolutely gorgeous.)
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Post by jk on Aug 11, 2023 21:02:29 GMT
JK voted for five voteless Pet Sounds tracks (as of his post on Sunday) over WIBN and GOK. I would be interested to know if he really prefers those other tracks or if WIBN and GOK really are unanimous favorites among our group here. Ah, another one of those feeling bad for the voteless songs situations. Everyone can vote as s/he pleases, but those strategies do complicate trying to get a grip on people's actual opinions. Well, giving five voteless tracks (3, 6, 9, 10 & 11) a vote was my way of saying every track on this album deserves a vote. The other three I voted for (4, 5 and 12) are my absolute favourite tracks on Pet Sounds. And that's my actual opinion!
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Post by kds on Aug 11, 2023 21:03:20 GMT
Caroline No got five votes, seems like its doing pretty well, considering the stiff competition.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 11, 2023 21:14:27 GMT
Ah, another one of those feeling bad for the voteless songs situations. Everyone can vote as s/he pleases, but those strategies do complicate trying to get a grip on people's actual opinions. Well, giving five voteless tracks (3, 6, 9, 10 & 11) a vote was my way of saying every track on this album deserves a vote. The other three I voted for (4, 5 and 12) are my absolute favourite tracks on Pet Sounds. And that's my actual opinion! But it's your actual opinion of what deserves recognition, and (presumably) not your actual opinion as to the 10 best/favorites. I'd put it this way for clarification: if nobody else were voting, just you, and you were to list your top 10 from this poll, would those 10 songs include the voteless ones? I'm guessing not. So in that way, it's not your opinion of the best 10. As I said, though, it's your vote and you're welcome/entitled to it. Polls always get bogged down in various best-versus-favorite-and-what-does-best-mean-anyway kinds of tangents. So it's just one more variation.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Aug 11, 2023 22:39:15 GMT
I'm surprised there wasn't more love for Caroline, No. That song is very special to me. I'm not shocked but let's say I'm extremely surprised - and disappointed - that both "Caroline, No" and "Good Vibrations" were not unanimous. In my opinion, and that's all it's worth, one man's opinion, I can't find 10, 11, 12, whatever better songs than those two...in any year.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 11, 2023 22:55:19 GMT
I am not disappointed, but certainly am more surprised that "Good Vibrations," "Wouldn't It Be Nice," and "God Only Knows" aren't unanimous. "Caroline, No," I can see it. (I mean, obviously, since I didn't vote for it.) To me, that's a different kind of song, and less unanimously praised--at least as far as I can think. Obviously loved, but the three I mentioned, those seem just across the board...
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Post by B.E. on Aug 12, 2023 16:49:02 GMT
Okay, "Good Vibrations" and "I Know There's An Answer" lost out. After making my selections today I checked my top 100 from a while back and found my top 10 PS/ Smile tracks there were identical. And the 11th and 12th? "Good Vibrations" and "I Know There's An Answer". That makes me feel better about it. I'm even pretty happy with the ranking. I wasn't sure I'd be able to. 1. Wouldn't It Be Nice 2. I Just Wasn't Made For These Times 3. God Only Knows 4. Heroes and Villains 5. Surf's Up 6. Sloop John B 7. That's Not Me 8. You Still Believe In Me 9. Don't Talk (Put Your Head on My Shoulder) 10. Our Prayer I am very surprised that "Good Vibrations" didn't make your cut. I realize that it was the strength(s) of the other songs that pushed it out of your Top 10, but is there something about "Good Vibrations" that bothers you or detracts from the song? It's hard to believe "Good Vibrations" wouldn't be included in, not an All-Time Greatest Songs poll, not a BB Early Era poll, but a poll for just a single year (even 1966 with Pet Sounds). I'm hesitant to say anything bothers me or detracts from the song because I fully appreciate it for what it is and enjoy it in that context, but when I'm comparing it to Pet Sounds tracks (in particular) I think the lack of emotional depth is the main reason it doesn't make my top 10. It's important to realize just how highly I think of Pet Sounds in that regard: I might feel more of a connection to that album than any other album ever made. (I mean, just look at my #2.) "Good Vibrations" is a fun, feel good trip, but it's superficial by comparison. Also, I tend to gravitate toward song structures, that while inventive, are more traditional. The more disparate the sections are, the more medley-like a track is, well, it loses the coherence and immediacy of my favorite tracks. I love listening to "Good Vibrations" on the radio or on a compilation, but I don't seek it out very often. (I also don't like listening to it on Smiley Smile, and I do wonder how that might affect my perception of it.) Regarding "Caroline, No", I love it as the closer of Pet Sounds but it's not as strong when taken out of that context. The actual song, which I love, is only about 90 seconds long then there's a 40 second instrumental break and 40 seconds of trains and dogs. Compare that to "You Still Believe Me" which has a similar structure where there's a climax at about the 90 second mark and where there's no more words the rest of the way (in this case about 60 seconds). But I find the rounds of vocal harmony (and the offbeat horn!) more exciting and satisfying. (Again, yes, the way "Caroline, No" fizzles out winds down works well when ending an album, but I think the other tracks I selected deliver more from start to finish.) I typically only listen to "Caroline, No" when listening to Pet Sounds, I don't seek it out on its own. (There's also the situation with the sped-up lead vocal, which doesn't bother me but might be a factor for others.) I can sort of relate both to my feelings on "A Day in the Life". It's a great closer. Heck, it's a masterpiece. But it's actually not one of my very favorite Beatles songs and I usually only listen to it when listening to Sgt Pepper in full. It fits perfectly in that context, but on its own? It's a wild trip, but I really need to be in the mood for it...for all of it. And while there's more substance, lyrically, than "Good Vibrations", it still doesn't compare - on an emotional level - to stuff like "Help", "Nowhere Man", "In My Life", "Eleanor Rigby", "Here, There and Everywhere", "For No One", "She's Leaving Home", etc. Obviously, I'm just talking about my reaction and preference to the music. That's what I'm trying to explain. And the more psychedelic the Beatles and Beach Boys got? As cool and interesting and enjoyable as it is, my connection to it just isn't as deep. How could it be? The less introspective it becomes? Granted, we don't all want the same thing out of music, of course. I like introspective music and lyrics best. Followed very closely by mindless rock 'n' roll. Stuff like "Papa-Oom-Mow-Mow" and "Dizzy Miss Lizzy"!
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Post by lonelysummer on Aug 13, 2023 6:29:29 GMT
Some of that Smile stuff doesn't work so well for me as standalone songs, but Our Prayer is beautiful in any setting; Heroes and Villains is great; Surf's Up is a masterpiece; Cabinessence is great; Song For Children is a personal favorite, although I like the bootleg version better than the (edited) version they used on the 2011 Smile album.
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