|
Post by jk on Aug 7, 2023 8:16:48 GMT
Speaking of “Here Today”, does anyone else think that the part of the chorus with the descending horns, sounds like something off of Sgt. Pepper’s? Hi CL. Do you mean the general ambience of that section of "Here Today" is akin to Pepper or more specifically the bit at the words "and gone so fast"? The most sax-heavy track on Pepper is "Good Morning, Good Morning", but you may also be thinking of the descending trombones in the title track, just after "sit back and let the evening go". Seriously, for decades on end I thought the glorious mess after "and gone so fast" was produced by a gong, when it's a downward "smear" on two (?) bass trombones with, seemingly, some reverb added. BW working his magic again... (For me, the musical moment that most recalls that "smear" is a similar effect at the end of the solo in David Bowie's "Space Oddity".)
|
|
|
Post by carllove on Aug 7, 2023 11:05:20 GMT
Speaking of “Here Today”, does anyone else think that the part of the chorus with the descending horns, sounds like something off of Sgt. Pepper’s? Hi CL. Do you mean the general ambience of that section of "Here Today" is akin to Pepper or more specifically the bit at the words "and gone so fast"? The most sax-heavy track on Pepper is "Good Morning, Good Morning", but you may also be thinking of the descending trombones in the title track, just after "sit back and let the evening go". Seriously, for decades on end I thought the glorious mess after "and gone so fast" was produced by a gong, when it's a downward "smear" on two (?) bass trombones with, seemingly, some reverb added. BW working his magic again... (For me, the musical moment that most recalls that "smear" is a similar effect at the end of the solo in David Bowie's "Space Oddity".) The general ambience of that section, including the vocals, sounds very Beatleseque to me. The vocals are definitely part of it, and yes the lyrics you mentioned, too. It does bring to mind the title track of Sgt. Peppers. The structure of the song as a whole is more complicated as well. I can see parts of “Here Today” inspiring parts of Sgt. Pepper’s, more than any other song on Pet Sounds. In my mind, I can hear Paul McCartney singing the vocals in my head. It’s not as obvious as “Girl Don’t Tell Me”, but the first time I heard “Here Today”, all I could think about was how it reminded me of the 1967 Beatles.
|
|
|
Post by carllove on Aug 7, 2023 11:09:30 GMT
“Here Today” is not an instrumental. “It starts with just a little glance now …” You are thinking of “Let’s Go Away For Awhile”. Read it again. No offense intended. Thanks lonelysummer. I was like a parent defending a child, with “Here Today”. Thankfully, Kapitan cleared it up for me!
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Aug 7, 2023 11:42:03 GMT
Speaking of “Here Today”, does anyone else think that the part of the chorus with the descending horns, sounds like something off of Sgt. Pepper’s? Hi CL. Do you mean the general ambience of that section of "Here Today" is akin to Pepper or more specifically the bit at the words "and gone so fast"? The most sax-heavy track on Pepper is "Good Morning, Good Morning", but you may also be thinking of the descending trombones in the title track, just after "sit back and let the evening go". Seriously, for decades on end I thought the glorious mess after "and gone so fast" was produced by a gong, when it's a downward "smear" on two (?) bass trombones with, seemingly, some reverb added. BW working his magic again... (For me, the musical moment that most recalls that "smear" is a similar effect at the end of the solo in David Bowie's "Space Oddity".) For me, the instrumental section (after the initial hits and guitar single-notes) sounds somewhat Pepperish, a little circusy, which calls to mind "Mr. Kite." Not the parts themselves, but the overall sound and vibe. Cued up below (2:03):
|
|
|
Post by kds on Aug 7, 2023 12:22:20 GMT
This was a tough one, so I started with the obvious ones first.
From Pet Sounds
Wouldn't It Be Nice You Still Believe in Me Sloop John B God Only Knows
From Smile
Surf's Up Good Vibrations Cabin Essence Heroes and Villains
That got me to eight really quickly. Like Sheriff, my nine or ten could change based on the day. But, I've cast my vote, and I'm sticking with it....I think. (I might be risking a potential "Edit" that would live on this post forever). But, I've chosen two more from Pet Sounds to round out my top ten.
That's Not Me - I love the guitar in this as well as the back and forth with Mike and Brian
I Just Wasn't Made for These Times
|
|
|
Post by jk on Aug 7, 2023 12:52:05 GMT
Hi CL. Do you mean the general ambience of that section of "Here Today" is akin to Pepper or more specifically the bit at the words "and gone so fast"? The most sax-heavy track on Pepper is "Good Morning, Good Morning", but you may also be thinking of the descending trombones in the title track, just after "sit back and let the evening go". Seriously, for decades on end I thought the glorious mess after "and gone so fast" was produced by a gong, when it's a downward "smear" on two (?) bass trombones with, seemingly, some reverb added. BW working his magic again... (For me, the musical moment that most recalls that "smear" is a similar effect at the end of the solo in David Bowie's "Space Oddity".) The general ambience of that section, including the vocals, sounds very Beatleseque to me. The vocals are definitely part of it, and yes the lyrics you mentioned, too. It does bring to mind the title track of Sgt. Peppers. The structure of the song as a whole is more complicated as well. I can see parts of “Here Today” inspiring parts of Sgt. Pepper’s, more than any other song on Pet Sounds. In my mind, I can hear Paul McCartney singing the vocals in my head. It’s not as obvious as “Girl Don’t Tell Me”, but the first time I heard “Hear Today”, all I could think about was how it reminded me of the 1967 Beatles. That's a fascinating take on the influence of PS on SP. Food for thought! Incidentally, I'm not that impressed with SP in general. Indeed, the much-maligned Stones album Their Satanic Majesties Request is far more interesting in my view.
|
|
|
Post by carllove on Aug 7, 2023 13:45:25 GMT
The general ambience of that section, including the vocals, sounds very Beatleseque to me. The vocals are definitely part of it, and yes the lyrics you mentioned, too. It does bring to mind the title track of Sgt. Peppers. The structure of the song as a whole is more complicated as well. I can see parts of “Here Today” inspiring parts of Sgt. Pepper’s, more than any other song on Pet Sounds. In my mind, I can hear Paul McCartney singing the vocals in my head. It’s not as obvious as “Girl Don’t Tell Me”, but the first time I heard “Hear Today”, all I could think about was how it reminded me of the 1967 Beatles. That's a fascinating take on the influence of PS on SP. Food for thought! Incidentally, I'm not that impressed with SP in general. Indeed, the much-maligned Stones album Their Satanic Majesties Request is far more interesting in my view. I love TSMR! SP isn’t my favorite Beatles album either, but it’s good. I’m more of a Rubber Soul, Revolver, Abbey Road sort of gal. I got a new practice amp (with tubes!) and spent the weekend playing “Polythene Pam” and “She Came In Through The Bathroom Window” on my guitars. Beatles chords are much easier than Beach Boys chords. Brian used some interesting and challenging chord progressions.
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Aug 7, 2023 15:31:24 GMT
This was, as I thought it would be, very difficult. I left out several songs I absolutely love.
I used the same method I have recently: a first pass to note the ones that I'm sure belong in the Top 10 (however many there may be), and then repeated passes to debate what to add (or subtract).
The initial pass brought 8 songs, and frankly there were probably at least five or six more that I considered--but any hesitation on these in this round means I don't mark it. But that left me with just two spots, and at least the aforementioned five or six more songs I thought belonged there.
In the end, my list included five songs from Pet Sounds and five from Smile. I have them divided by the tiers, but then within the tiers I have them in approximate order of my liking. Approximate.
Top Tier: 1. Wouldn't It Be Nice 2. Surf's Up 3. Sloop John B. 4. Our Prayer 5. God Only Knows 6. Heroes & Villains 7. Good Vibrations 8. Cabinessence
Second Tier: 9. I'm Waiting For the Day 10. Here Today
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Aug 7, 2023 15:45:55 GMT
For fun, I compared this list to my Top 100 Beach Boys songs from that thread of Sheriff John Stone's. All 10 of my picks here were among my Top 25 in that list ... but my fifth-highest rated from these two albums on that Top 100 list (which was #9 overall) didn't make my Top 10 here! My Pet Sounds/Smile songs from that Top 100 list were as follows (with the numbers representing where they fell on my Top 100 across all albums): 1. Wouldn't It Be Nice 2. Surf's Up 7. Sloop John B 8. God Only Knows (9. Wonderful) 15. Cabinessence 16. Heroes & Villains 22. Good Vibrations 23. Our Prayer/Gee 24. I'm Waiting For the Day 25. Here Today My original Top 100 also included: 32. I Know There's An Answer 34. Wind Chimes 53. Caroline, No 67. Don't Talk (Put Your Head on My Shoulder) 75. Vegetables I'm shocked that that list didn't include "You Still Believe In Me," which very nearly made my Top 10 today!
|
|
|
Post by Sheriff John Stone on Aug 7, 2023 18:56:55 GMT
I have a serious problem. I need to include 8 Pet Sounds tracks and 4 Smile tracks. Okay, "Good Vibrations" and "I Know There's An Answer" lost out. After making my selections today I checked my top 100 from a while back and found my top 10 PS/ Smile tracks there were identical. And the 11th and 12th? "Good Vibrations" and "I Know There's An Answer". That makes me feel better about it. I'm even pretty happy with the ranking. I wasn't sure I'd be able to. 1. Wouldn't It Be Nice 2. I Just Wasn't Made For These Times 3. God Only Knows 4. Heroes and Villains 5. Surf's Up 6. Sloop John B 7. That's Not Me 8. You Still Believe In Me 9. Don't Talk (Put Your Head on My Shoulder) 10. Our Prayer I am very surprised that "Good Vibrations" didn't make your cut. I realize that it was the strength(s) of the other songs that pushed it out of your Top 10, but is there something about "Good Vibrations" that bothers you or detracts from the song? It's hard to believe "Good Vibrations" wouldn't be included in, not an All-Time Greatest Songs poll, not a BB Early Era poll, but a poll for just a single year (even 1966 with Pet Sounds).
|
|
Barco
Denny's Drums
Posts: 41
Likes: 72
|
Post by Barco on Aug 8, 2023 7:45:35 GMT
After giving it a lot of thought (and nearly giving up halfway through) that's what I ended up with:
1. You Still Believe In Me 2. Caroline, No 3. Wouldn't It Be Nice 4. Don't Talk 5. That's Not Me - among many other details about this song, something about Mike's performance on this specific track really gets to me 6. I'm Waiting For The Day 7. Heroes and Villains 8. Sloop John B 9. Good Vibrations 10. God Only Knows
I can't say I'm surprised that Pet Sounds' songs made up for 8 out of my 10 picks for two reasons. Reason number one is that this album is just about my favorite of all. While I personally don't necessarily think it's the best ever made (though it may be damn close), I can connect with Pet Sounds in a way I can't almost anything else, and that's including things beyond the realm of music.
Reason number two is more complicated. I feel like Smile is a case where 'the whole is greater than the sum of its parts' is true. I, however, don't really know how I feel about Smile as an album these days. When I first got into both its history and music, I was hooked - I was convinced it was one of the best things I had ever listened to and all that. As time went on, however, my loving of it seems to have diminished at least a little. I don't see Smile or the vast majority of its material as being on the same league as Pet Sounds and its content at all anymore. While there's definitely some absolute gold in Smile, stuff most bands couldn't ever dream of achieving, I'm left feeling like I was maybe too influenced by the hype created around it. For quite some time now I've been bothered by how really, REALLY incomplete the album is, which is a rather obvious observation as, well, it is in fact incomplete. Also the way the entire thing runs has felt too repetitive at times... but then again, individually, the songs (apart from the occasional masterpiece ) aren't as strong by themselves as they are on the album as a whole. I don't know. Maybe I just haven't listened to it carefully in a while.
This being not the first time my opinion on Smile has changed though, it's bound to happen again in the future.
|
|
|
Post by jk on Aug 8, 2023 8:31:59 GMT
I feel like Smile is a case where 'the whole is greater than the sum of its parts' is true. Hi Barco. Good to see you around! Now this is exactly how I feel! On top of that, I see SMiLE as more of a project than an album. So in a way, the "unfinished" label doesn't apply. You might say it's an ongoing project even today...
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Aug 8, 2023 12:01:00 GMT
I feel like Smile is a case where 'the whole is greater than the sum of its parts' is true. Hi Barco. Good to see you around! Now this is exactly how I feel! On top of that, I see SMiLE as more of a project than an album. So in a way, the "unfinished" label doesn't apply. You might say it's an ongoing project even today... I agree with Barco and jk about the whole being greater than the sum of its parts. But I'm not sure I buy the "project" (versus album) angle: in fact, I'm not entirely sure what it means. Every album is a project, in some respects. Smile was meant to be an album. It wasn't finished. So to me, that's definitionally an unfinished album, and (if an album is a project) an unfinished project. And as for it being ongoing, perhaps to listeners, but certainly not to its creator(s). What is your distinction between album and project? EDIT - however, tabling the unfinished aspect and just going with the finished presentation of the music ( BWPS...I can hear Sheriff John Stone's teeth grinding in rage as we speak)--or even the general thrust of the basically finished but unsequenced '66-'67 material--it seems to me like a musical. It's got its centerpieces, its major themes (which recur), and incidental music to keep things moving along between those anchors.
|
|
Barco
Denny's Drums
Posts: 41
Likes: 72
|
Post by Barco on Aug 8, 2023 17:55:44 GMT
Hi Barco. Good to see you around! Now this is exactly how I feel! On top of that, I see SMiLE as more of a project than an album. So in a way, the "unfinished" label doesn't apply. You might say it's an ongoing project even today... I agree with Barco and jk about the whole being greater than the sum of its parts. But I'm not sure I buy the "project" (versus album) angle: in fact, I'm not entirely sure what it means. Every album is a project, in some respects. Smile was meant to be an album. It wasn't finished. So to me, that's definitionally an unfinished album, and (if an album is a project) an unfinished project. And as for it being ongoing, perhaps to listeners, but certainly not to its creator(s). What is your distinction between album and project? EDIT - however, tabling the unfinished aspect and just going with the finished presentation of the music ( BWPS...I can hear Sheriff John Stone 's teeth grinding in rage as we speak)--or even the general thrust of the basically finished but unsequenced '66-'67 material--it seems to me like a musical. It's got its centerpieces, its major themes (which recur), and incidental music to keep things moving along between those anchors. I know the question isn't directed at me but I want to chip in my interpretation on this project vs album discussion. I think there's a case to be made for the differentiation on the case of Smile. It'd be fair to especifically call it a project rather than an album because it's unfinished. That is, Smile never really got to be an album, and since it was abandoned before completion, it will forever be stuck as that, a project, unfinished, left behind and never completed. Not that the way I or anyone calls it, be it album or project, matters much to me. I'm comfortable with Smile being referred to as either of them because, y'know, it's just a naming thing after all. The music is still the same no matter what you call it. My view on the matter seems to directly contradict jk's comment, though, so I'm curious to hear his side of things.
|
|
|
Post by jk on Aug 9, 2023 8:19:24 GMT
I agree with Barco and jk about the whole being greater than the sum of its parts. But I'm not sure I buy the "project" (versus album) angle: in fact, I'm not entirely sure what it means. Every album is a project, in some respects. Smile was meant to be an album. It wasn't finished. So to me, that's definitionally an unfinished album, and (if an album is a project) an unfinished project. And as for it being ongoing, perhaps to listeners, but certainly not to its creator(s). What is your distinction between album and project? EDIT - however, tabling the unfinished aspect and just going with the finished presentation of the music ( BWPS...I can hear Sheriff John Stone 's teeth grinding in rage as we speak)--or even the general thrust of the basically finished but unsequenced '66-'67 material--it seems to me like a musical. It's got its centerpieces, its major themes (which recur), and incidental music to keep things moving along between those anchors. I know the question isn't directed at me but I want to chip in my interpretation on this project vs album discussion. I think there's a case to be made for the differentiation on the case of Smile. It'd be fair to especifically call it a project rather than an album because it's unfinished. That is, Smile never really got to be an album, and since it was abandoned before completion, it will forever be stuck as that, a project, unfinished, left behind and never completed. Not that the way I or anyone calls it, be it album or project, matters much to me. I'm comfortable with Smile being referred to as either of them because, y'know, it's just a naming thing after all. The music is still the same no matter what you call it. My view on the matter seems to directly contradict jk's comment, though, so I'm curious to hear his side of things. I'm not sure I follow you, Barco. Perhaps you'd like to expand on that.
|
|