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Post by kds on Sept 20, 2023 2:00:27 GMT
I'm thinking he means they'll get together to promote the doc. If they do, I hope they sort out their wardrobe beforehand. But how? I don't know, a joint interview, or appearance at a screening possibly.
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Post by kds on Sept 20, 2023 2:01:44 GMT
I interpreted the first two sentences as being ambiguous. I think they might mean the documentary is complete, or they might mean the project is still ongoing. But as I mentioned above, I did think that the "set to air" comment implied it is completed. It seems like something you think about once a project is completed--but to be fair, it might just mean that it's not done and so (obviously) he doesn't know when it will air. As for the getting together, I'm sure it's going to be something like a premiere ceremony or something, some P.R. for the project. The kind of "reunion" this band has been mostly known for the past couple decades, the kind of reunion that doesn't require a (musical) reunion. Just go somewhere fancy, sit alongside one another, pretend to be close friends, answer a few questions with well-rehearsed lines about being family, the harmony that goes along with it, and so on.If that's what they decide on, it will be a major disappointment and a disaster. We already know what they'll say...and not say.
Disaster seems a bit much, right?
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 20, 2023 11:50:55 GMT
I'd say something more like "exactly what a person would expect."
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 20, 2023 20:01:45 GMT
I was thinking a little about what I hope to see (and expect to see) from the upcoming documentary. And while I think I've mentioned this in relation to some of the beachboystalkmatt shows, I really hope to see an expanded, but more musically relevant, cast of interviewees in this doc. The perceived flavor-of-the-month talking heads praising the Beach Boys that turn up in docs are fine, I guess, but do they really move the needle for anyone? Do big fans of Fleet Foxes or the Jonas Brothers or whoever really watch a BBs/BW/etc documentary just to see their favorite artist praise the group for 20 seconds? And do BBs fans think, "finally, my love of this group has been justified ... by Billy Bob Thornton!"? First and foremost, in addition to the obvious new interviews with Brian Wilson, Mike Love, Al Jardine, Bruce Johnston, and David Marks--and ideally new-to-us archival footage of Carl and Dennis Wilson and Billy Hinsche--how about interviewing Ricky Fataar and Blondie Chaplin? They were Beach Boys!But then back to my comment about the Beach Boys Talk shows, Greg and Matt have demonstrated how many interesting anecdotes former Beach Boys studio and touring musicians have about the group, not to mention how interested the group's fans are to hear them. Obviously, even with an expanded running time like I'm hoping for, those guys won't get a ton of air time each. But particularly with so many of the Wrecking Crew a) having already given interviews repeatedly about the group, and b) with so many of these guys still around but mostly unheard from, I really think it would be great having input from the likes of Jim Guercio, Steve Levine, Bobby Figueroa, Robert White Johnson, Mike Kowalski, Geoffrey Cushing Murray, Gary Griffin, Carli Munoz, etc., as well as musicians from Brian's and Mike's bands (with an emphasis on the C50 band, with their experience having "crossed party lines"). That's what I'd love to see out of this documentary ... hopefully in a multipart, 6-10 hour final product!
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Sept 21, 2023 0:06:21 GMT
I have a few wishes for interviewees for the upcoming(?) documentary, but I have very little confidence that they will be included, or featured prominently. This would probably be their last chance to tell what they want/know...if they want. I think they do, unlike the surviving Beach Boys, have something interesting and informative to say. One can wish.
The SMiLE Era - Van Dyke Parks, Marilyn Wilson. Just tell us what you know, Van Dyke, without hidden meanings and clever word play. We want to know what happened with SMiLE, at least in Parks' opinion. Other than Brian, nobody knows. Except maybe Marilyn. Come on, Marilyn, what was going on with Brian's state of mind. You lived with him. Did you ask him?
1964 - David Marks - I'd like to hear, from David's mouth in 2023, specifically how/why he left the group, and how he has really dealt with it over the next 60 years.
1968 -1970 - Danny Hutton. What was really going on with Brian...at Hutton's house and in the studio? What's the real Three Dog Night story?
1974 - 1978 - James Guercio, Marilyn Wilson, Stan Love. So much to discuss. I think each Beached Boy had a different take. What was theirs (James, Marilyn, Stan)? They were very involved.
1983 - 1993 - Alexandra Morgan, Kevin Leslie, Evan Landy. There is zero chance of these two being interviewed or involved in the documentary. We have heard/read/seen so much from Brian's people. It would be fascinating to hear from Eugene Landy's connections.
2012 - Brian Wilson, Mike Love, Al Jardine, Bruce Johnston, David Marks - OK, guys, here's your chance. What really happened? I know, I know, you'd rather not say. You've moved on. Everything's great. Everybody's doing their own thing...
2023 - Any Beach Boys' children. I'd like to hear whatever they have to offer with one disclaimer - it has to be fascinating. If not, don't waste my time.
2023 - Paul McCartney - I really would like to hear some insightful commentary from Paul, if he has any. I don't want his love of Pet Sounds/"God Only Knows" rehashed, though.
2023 - Jeff Foskett - Jeff has a lot to offer. I'm just not sure he wants to go there, to certain places.
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Post by B.E. on Sept 21, 2023 0:42:38 GMT
1964 - David Marks - I'd like to hear, from David's mouth in 2023, specifically how/why he left the group, and how he has really dealt with it over the next 60 years. This one might interest me the most. But have you read Stebbins’ book, The Lost Beach Boy? I haven’t, but I imagine this was discussed there. I really would like to read it - and his book about Dennis - eventually.
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 21, 2023 11:52:50 GMT
Not saying I wouldn't want to hear from them, but I'm less interested in the people who have been interviewed ad nauseum about the band, or especially certain topics (e.g., VDP and Smile).
It's not that I don't think there's a lot more to learn, it's that I don't think they're capable of telling it. While obviously this is over my head technically, I've read and heard that the more frequently a person revisits memories, the less accurate their memories are. The more often they tell stories, the more their memories are of their stories, not the events their stories were originally telling.
So Parks, Hutton, M. Wilson, I just don't think we'd get anything new that's of particular interest (unless it happened to be in response to a specific question). That's partly why I'd rather hear from people who were around, but haven't been asked so often over the years.
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Post by kds on Sept 22, 2023 1:58:59 GMT
What I'm hoping for is a warts and all telling of The Beach Boys story. If this doc spends 75% of its runtime on the 60s, with the usual major focus on Pet Sounds and Smile, it'll be a disappointment.
I'd love to see the Brother Era, Ricky and Blondie Years, Brian's Back, the 80s and 90s, even the post Carl's death split, and the 2012 reunion / album given proper attention.
If they do a multipart, long doc, I think this is a somewhat realistic ask. If they do for another two hour or less doc, then...well.
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nater414
Denny's Drums
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Post by nater414 on Sept 27, 2023 5:02:00 GMT
I agree that if we get a movie that just talks about the band's founding, hit years, and PS/GV/Smile it will feel redundant. If they play it safe, it will probably be hardly distinguishable from that Doin' It Again movie.
As others have mentioned before, I really hope for a detailed look at the Brother Era, post-Carl 'modern' era, reunion, etc. Details about every album. Studio and concert footage. Studio/Touring musicians interviewed. I hope it is a similar type of feel as Beatles Anthology. A patient, thorough retelling of their story. I am very excited about this doc!
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Sept 27, 2023 11:35:59 GMT
I've seen it mentioned on this thread and other forums, hoping that this new Beach Boys' documentary would be similar to The Beatles' ones. I can see why it hasn't been in the past and might not be in the future - not that it shouldn't. With The Beatles, their story and especially their music was always great, iconic (no pun intended), historically relevant, and most importantly, appealed to a very large percentage of people. It didn't matter if you were a Beatles' diehard, a casual Beatles' fan, or just a general music fan. You were interested or entertained by John, Paul, George, and Ringo.
I don't think the above applies to The Beach Boys. Now, I'm different, I'm a Beach Boys' nut (I'd take a half an hour on the M.I.U. sessions alone ), but most music fans - not diehards, most music fans - don't care about the albums from 1967-1969 ( Smiley Smile, Wild Honey, Friends, 20/20). To some extent that's true of the next era ( Sunflower, Surf's Up, C&TP, Holland). And, it's definitely true of the post- 15 Big Ones material. If you think I'm being harsh, check the sales figures, check the concert attendance, and yes, check the actual music. A large percentage of music fans didn't care for it. They definitely didn't buy it. Oh, there are certainly highlights, songs that are keepers, albums that still get some notice, but in The Beach Boys' story, so much of their music is irrelevant.
Back to The Beatles for a moment. Their music always mattered - all of it. They ended with The White Album, Abbey Road, and Let It Be. They didn't have a Keepin' The Summer Alive, Still Cruisin', or Summer In Paradise. People cared about John, Paul, George, and Ringo's life. They were real characters. Fans cared about their breakup. Fans cared about their solo music! Again, other than diehards, how many people cared about those things with The Beach Boys? I guess you could take the approach that those general/casual fans need to be educated, need to be made aware of what they missed, or are still missing. And I get that. Maybe a lengthy documentary is needed for those purposes. There's no question one is necessary for historical purposes.
Other than maybe (tragically) Dennis, Brian is the only Beach Boy whose life and career has been explored, and to some success, I think. I say "I think" because I'm not really sure his documentaries/movies/books have had mass appeal. But, Brian Wilson was, is, and will always be "the story" of The Beach Boys and whose music brings fans to the group. After 1968, with a few exceptions, he wasn't a Beach Boy. And that's a lot of years and non-Beach Boys music to fill in a documentary.
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 27, 2023 12:14:13 GMT
I get your points, Sheriff John Stone , but I don't agree entirely, and this is why: The Beach Boys, regardless of the quality or commercial success of their music at various times, were always interesting. There is absolutely a story to be told about each and every era of the band, even when some of those eras didn't have hits. And I think a good filmmaker could tell those stories in a way that would appeal not just to hardcore Beach Boys fans, but casual Beach Boys fans and even casual viewers who aren't fans at all. Now, me, I'd still like to have in-depth looks at every album's music. But I get that this would not happen. However, an in-depth look at how the band navigated the periods of each album? Fascinating! Think about it some of those stories that go beyond the band's formation, the hits years, Pet Sounds, Smile's collapse, and Brian's Back. Whether it's the other guys becoming songwriters and producers, the personnel changes, the start (that never really ended) of albums being constantly reworked (whether by creative choices or labels' instruction) and excess material in the vaults, the live band's success even as their new albums don't necessarily perform well, the group members' outside efforts as we hit the '70s, Brian's relationship to the band (told with more detail and nuance than the old "genius worked hard, went to bed for years, "Brian's Back," etc.), the factions struggling for control of the group, the various labels and managers involved, Adult Child, Not just the artistic triumph of Dennis's solo album but the band dynamics and aborted tour, Carl's late '70s problems and subsequent disillusionment with the band (and quitting and rejoining), Bruce's return, Mike's shockingly active period in the late '70s and early '80s (even if most of it was outside the Beach Boys), Dennis's collapse, the decision to continue, the 85 album, Brian's distancing/solo career, Mike's period of control with Melcher, Al almost being kicked out of the band, Carl's ongoing work outside the band, the aborted "real" Beach Boys mid-90s project(s) that left us with Stars & Stripes (which is roughly where Endless Harmony leaves off), the competing bands around 2000ish, Brian's solo success and reimagined/revived Smile music (and how it seemed to impact the quality of the touring Beach Boys during the Totten-led period), the lead-up to the reunion, the recording itself, the tour, and the follow-up after the reunion ... there is so much to say.
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Post by kds on Sept 27, 2023 18:06:30 GMT
I agree with Kap, as the story itself is very compelling.
And, Sheriff, while agree that The Beach Boys impact hardly compares to The Beatles (who is?). But, I think The Beach Boys, at least peak Beach Boys, have always been important or relevant. And there are bands whose music has arguably been less impactful who've received docs in recent years.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Sept 27, 2023 18:55:59 GMT
Again, as a diehard, I have no problem with covering as much as possible. The more the better. I want it all! And, as I mentioned, it would also be good for historical purposes to cover as much ground as possible. It's about time The Beach Boys get that treatment. There aren't many bands with more commercial success, critical success, and drama. Yes, they absolutely deserve it, historically speaking.
My main point was that, experiencing what I have over the last 50 years as a fan of the group, I'm just not sure many other people will care. Kapitan, everything you listed above (the happenings with the group) I concur with, and I could add many more. It is so damn interesting. But, outside of some fans who participate in forums, some curious fans who are digging Sounds Of Summer, and the up-and-coming generation of cool music fans who are exploring, I'm not so sure a detailed documentary will attract a large audience - if we even get a multi-episode, several hours' long, wide-ranging documentary . Frankly, as I did a quick mental survey of family, friends, co-workers, acquaintances, etc., I'm having a hard time thinking of many who would follow along or hang with a long, detailed documentary - after they get past Pet Sounds. So, Ricky Fataar was brought in and played drums on Carl & The Passions, Holland, and In Concert. Um...yeah. And Bruce Johnston rejoined the band in 1978 and produced L.A. (Light Album) and Keepin' The Summer Alive. OK. And, Scott Totten eventually replaced Carl Wilson as the on-stage "leader" for over twenty years with the Mike Love/Bruce Johnston-led touring Beach Boys. Scott who?
I'm not trying to be cynical and sarcastic, and I promise I'll only say it one more time (on this post ). Yes, I think it is important that The Beach Boys have a Beatles-like, multi-episode, career-spanning, in-depth, detailed documentary for historical purposes. And, I'll enjoy the hell out of it! I'm just a little skeptical if others will, too.
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 28, 2023 12:05:19 GMT
I hear you. And I understand that just listing those things (especially for a casual fan) isn't going to excite them. But I do think there's a lot that, if already watching, they'd find fascinating. I think you'd hear a lot of "I watched Part One of that new Beach Boys documentary on [Streaming Service X], and WOW, I had no idea! It got crazy! You should check it out!"
At least I could imagine that if it were well done. But if it's just an hour or 90 minutes, and it's Al telling how his mom funded the instrument rentals, Mike telling how he remembers the Wilsons and Loves singing at Christmastime, Brian saying three or four words here and there about bringing love into the world, Mike talking about the damage of drugs (and going to India and beating the Beatles in a British fan poll and writing Kokomo), then it'll be a tremendous disappointment that I struggle to imagine anyone much caring about. There are already several of those.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Sept 28, 2023 12:47:12 GMT
I hear you. And I understand that just listing those things (especially for a casual fan) isn't going to excite them. But I do think there's a lot that, if already watching, they'd find fascinating. I think you'd hear a lot of "I watched Part One of that new Beach Boys documentary on [Streaming Service X], and WOW, I had no idea! It got crazy! You should check it out!"At least I could imagine that if it were well done. But if it's just an hour or 90 minutes, and it's Al telling how his mom funded the instrument rentals, Mike telling how he remembers the Wilsons and Loves singing at Christmastime, Brian saying three or four words here and there about bringing love into the world, Mike talking about the damage of drugs (and going to India and beating the Beatles in a British fan poll and writing Kokomo), then it'll be a tremendous disappointment that I struggle to imagine anyone much caring about. There are already several of those. Oh, yes. Absolutely. Every Beach Boys' fan has their own story to tell about how they discovered the group or got hooked. I'm sure this documentary will nab its share of new fans.
I'm noticing that we (including me) have been toying with the idea of a several hours-long, multi-episode, anthology-like documentary. However, honestly, the first time I read about this Iconic-produced documentary, I was thinking (predicting to myself actually) that it would only be a two-hour production. I haven't really changed my mind. Hope I'm wrong.
Also, I noticed in Mike's recent interview that he didn't mention being interviewed for this documentary (did he?). Has anybody read of any Beach Boys or family or associates being interviewed?
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