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Post by Kapitan on Jun 29, 2023 12:11:46 GMT
I have to say, along the lines of what lonelysummer and B.E. said or implied, I think all reunion talk is too little, too late anyway. I already thought that going in to 2022. Even then, I figured a show or a couple shows were the best we could hope for. And I think Al and Bruce at least seemed to be pushing for that, though Bruce (and Mike) seemed to be talking more tribute shows, with Al pushing more for a short residency or brief tour. Point being, I don't think any of us can imagine a full tour at this point, partly because Brian clearly is incapable of performing at even a reasonable level, and partly because the odds of getting those people (and/or groups of people, factions, whatever) to cooperate and collaborate for weeks or months on the road just seems impossible. Maybe it's easy for Al to keep pushing, as he's probably among the biggest beneficiaries. He doesn't have significant name recognition on his own, he doesn't get to use the Beach Boys brand name, he's not a prolific songwriter on his own, he's not a session-quality musician: he's "just" a great singer of great Beach Boys songs. What's more, he's the only guy who still sings really well. But really, those comments generating all this discussion I think are far more interesting as relates to the potential upcoming BW release than the dead-horse reunion idea. As Mike's close friend, his "Pisces Brother," said, "all things must pass..."
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Post by The Cincinnati Kid on Jun 29, 2023 12:25:13 GMT
This is all very much speculation, but deep down, Mike also might be thinking at this point that he doesn't want to perform with Brian in his current/then current condition. And just having Al doesn't move the needle that much. It was kind of a sad show when I saw Brian last year and the crowd knew it, too. Wasn't there a window late last summer when both sides had open dates? Then at some point Mike scheduled more and eventually Brian's dates were canceled after the Chicago tour. The fact that they did come together for the Grammy show, but didn't perform, says a lot to me.
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 29, 2023 12:36:40 GMT
The fact that they did come together for the Grammy show, but didn't perform, says a lot to me. ^ This.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 29, 2023 12:51:38 GMT
Unless I missed them, I also found it surprising that no posed/official/professional photos were taken of the Beach Boys at the Grammy Tribute Concert. All I saw were a few candids that appeared to be taken from a cell phone. I'm surprised there wasn't at least one photographer present who would've gathered the guys together for 10-15 minutes and gotten some nice group shots. Considering it might (probably?) be the last time the guys appear together, I think it's sad that we don't have more photos of such an historical moment.
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Post by B.E. on Jun 29, 2023 13:01:38 GMT
This is all very much speculation, but deep down, Mike also might be thinking at this point that he doesn't want to perform with Brian in his current/then current condition. And just having Al doesn't move the needle that much. I think that’s been the case for decades. Upwards of 40 years, even.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 29, 2023 13:05:11 GMT
This is all very much speculation, but deep down, Mike also might be thinking at this point that he doesn't want to perform with Brian in his current/then current condition. And just having Al doesn't move the needle that much. I think that’s been the case for decades. Upwards of 40 years, even. I think Mike was happy to be performing with Brian on the 50th Anniversary Tour in 2012. If he wasn't, he did a good job faking it.
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Post by kds on Jun 29, 2023 13:34:53 GMT
This is all very much speculation, but deep down, Mike also might be thinking at this point that he doesn't want to perform with Brian in his current/then current condition. And just having Al doesn't move the needle that much. It was kind of a sad show when I saw Brian last year and the crowd knew it, too. Wasn't there a window late last summer when both sides had open dates? Then at some point Mike scheduled more and eventually Brian's dates were canceled after the Chicago tour. The fact that they did come together for the Grammy show, but didn't perform, says a lot to me. Yeah, I used to say that maybe one day, Mike would decide to retire, and Brian and Al would join Mike and Bruce onstage for one final Beach Boys concert. But, the fact that they couldn't even all get together to play one song together for a TV event is pretty telling.
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 29, 2023 13:52:22 GMT
I think that’s been the case for decades. Upwards of 40 years, even. I think Mike was happy to be performing with Brian on the 50th Anniversary Tour in 2012. If he wasn't, he did a good job faking it. I'll bet he was ambivalent about it. (I went much of my life thinking "ambivalent" meant "no strong feelings about." But it is actually "contradictory feelings about." Go figure!) He presumably was very well compensated for the tour. He got a TON of positive, mainstream press during the reunion/tour--much more than the typical local newspaper/local TV news segment for the usual traveling Beach Boys shows. There were very large crowds paying high ticket prices. And he was able to stand at the forefront of those shows, those spectacles, with a fabulous band around him. He also was more than happy to move on from that tour, even when the opportunity arose (under whatever circumstances) to continue. He was willing to absent himself from some of the cameraderie with the rest of the band and crew, such as the notorious skipping of the big dinner late in the tour. He was not shy about criticizing the entire thing, from album to tour to bandmates (or their wives...), afterward. I think like anyone--but most importantly Brian Wilson--he probably would have had conditions under which he would have continued with, or revisited, actual reunions going forward. But also like with Brian Wilson, those conditions very clearly weren't able to be ironed out. You ( Sheriff John Stone) have mentioned "why can't they have a meeting about it?" a couple of times, but I'm sure that as much money as was on the table, the business/management people were negotiating both then and afterward to try to work something out. But if their conditions just don't line up, they don't line up.
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Post by B.E. on Jun 29, 2023 14:24:54 GMT
Yeah, I imagine Mike felt a variety of mixed emotions; including, some very special moments of joy and happiness on stage with Brian, Al, and David. But that doesn’t mean the same issue that TCK was alluding to as possibly being a factor now, hasn’t long been a factor. And it’s understandable from Mike’s perspective. But over the last 30 years, how many times has Mike expressed disappointment or regret that he’s not sharing the stage with Brian (and Al) every night? Has he ever? I think his actions from the moment he gained greater control of the touring operation, and especially since acquiring the license, speak for themselves. I think Mike tours with, and deals with, who he wants to. He’s not hiding his preference. The fact that he agreed to one reunion…one that he never intended to be permanent…doesn’t change that.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 29, 2023 14:28:22 GMT
I've been mentioning "management", or lack of, a lot recently, and unfortunately for this board, you'll probably read me harping on that more in the future. I just think better (or any!) management could've nipped several problems in the bud, and God knows this band has had them. It was mentioned above how telling it was that the Beach Boys couldn't even perform a single song at the tribute concert. That is hard to believe, isn't it. For me, it's hard to believe that something/anything couldn't be worked out to accomplish that. I won't bore you with several suggestions I had, but it's sad that not one person could "get the guys together" to do that. And that one person - Jerry Schilling - I'm looking at you.
I read somewhere (I think it was David Leaf's book) about what James Guercio was faced with when he started to manage/advise the band in the mid-1970s. I recall one story where James Guercio had to tell Mike Love to stop referring to Carl Wilson as "cousin Carl" because it bothered him. Funny? Not really. This is The Beach Boys. They couldn't work out a problem as simple as that. They needed an outsider to intervene. And that's what I'm hinting at or downright recommending for The Beach Boys (though it's way, way too late; they're history) when I refer to calling meetings and having management address certain issues, including issues that would affect potential reunions. The Beach Boys can't get out of their own way. They never could. They have serious issues.
Just as simple or naive as that James Guercio story appeared to be, things could be eerily similar today. Maybe it is - or was - that simple. Get the guys into a room and talk about things. What is bugging them about each other or preventing them from working together? Not AFTER the fact. Not DURING the recording sessions. Not DURING the concert tour. Not to the press who are looking for dirt. Not in one-sentence emails. I'm pretty naive, huh? Don't answer that!
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 29, 2023 14:43:27 GMT
That's where I suspect there is a lot more negotiation that went on than you seem to think. (And of course, neither of us knows.) But with all the potential revenue from C50 onward, I simply do not believe nobody was working on what the issues were. Now, I DO believe that the principals of BRI or the band members didn't get into some board room somewhere. That's easy to believe. Because if they didn't see something coming from it, they wouldn't bother. (Even in my industry, often meetings between parties aren't scheduled until the agendas--and likely results--are worked out in advance by the principals' representatives.)
I am sure each faction (and mostly Brian and Mike, because they're the ones who matter, quite frankly) made clear what it wanted. And nothing came of it. It is just inconceivable to me, even with the Beach Boys, that nobody ever thought to clarify and iron out the issues. Instead I have to think the problem was that the issues were not reconcilable. No band manager can make elderly, multimillionaire, legendary and/or infamous family-member artists do what they don't want to do. With all the money on the table for everyone, I cannot imagine they (business managers, agents, whatever) weren't trying.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 29, 2023 14:56:32 GMT
That's where I suspect there is a lot more negotiation that went on than you seem to think. (And of course, neither of us knows.) But with all the potential revenue from C50 onward, I simply do not believe nobody was working on what the issues were. Now, I DO believe that the principals of BRI or the band members didn't get into some board room somewhere. That's easy to believe. Because if they didn't see something coming from it, they wouldn't bother. (Even in my industry, often meetings between parties aren't scheduled until the agendas--and likely results--are worked out in advance by the principals' representatives.) I am sure each faction (and mostly Brian and Mike, because they're the ones who matter, quite frankly) made clear what it wanted. And nothing came of it. It is just inconceivable to me, even with the Beach Boys, that nobody ever thought to clarify and iron out the issues. Instead I have to think the problem was that the issues were not reconcilable. No band manager can make elderly, multimillionaire, legendary and/or infamous family-member artists do what they don't want to do. With all the money on the table for everyone, I cannot imagine they (business managers, agents, whatever) weren't trying. I think you're right about having attorneys, agents, and other professionals handling negotiations. One reason I say that is because we've all read the interviews in the last ten years since the 50th reunion, and how many times did Mike or Brian or maybe even Al and David say that they "don't talk to each other" or "we haven't discussed anything". And I believe 'em. However, while I do agree that some...negotiations...have taken place, I wouldn't be surprised if it was few. Very few. And since I'm beating dead horses today, I'll say again that while meetings among professionals can be effective (especially dividing up the $$$$$$ which is always paramount), getting the guys together in the flesh - talking, laughing, eating - might be more effective in getting things back together.
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Post by lonelysummer on Jun 30, 2023 5:05:03 GMT
I have to say, along the lines of what lonelysummer and B.E. said or implied, I think all reunion talk is too little, too late anyway. I already thought that going in to 2022. Even then, I figured a show or a couple shows were the best we could hope for. And I think Al and Bruce at least seemed to be pushing for that, though Bruce (and Mike) seemed to be talking more tribute shows, with Al pushing more for a short residency or brief tour. Point being, I don't think any of us can imagine a full tour at this point, partly because Brian clearly is incapable of performing at even a reasonable level, and partly because the odds of getting those people (and/or groups of people, factions, whatever) to cooperate and collaborate for weeks or months on the road just seems impossible. Maybe it's easy for Al to keep pushing, as he's probably among the biggest beneficiaries. He doesn't have significant name recognition on his own, he doesn't get to use the Beach Boys brand name, he's not a prolific songwriter on his own, he's not a session-quality musician: he's "just" a great singer of great Beach Boys songs. What's more, he's the only guy who still sings really well. But really, those comments generating all this discussion I think are far more interesting as relates to the potential upcoming BW release than the dead-horse reunion idea. As Mike's close friend, his "Pisces Brother," said, "all things must pass..." "Somebody said, all things will pass, all things will pass away It seems kind of slow, but somehow I know I'm gonna spend one more night alone"
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 6, 2023 12:21:20 GMT
Apropos of nothing, it just popped into my head: remember the great new documentary that was to be a part of the big 60th anniversary?
Yeah, me, too. I wonder when we're going to see or hear something concrete about its release ... perhaps in time for the 75th?
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Post by lonelysummer on Aug 6, 2023 19:38:56 GMT
Apropos of nothing, it just popped into my head: remember the great new documentary that was to be a part of the big 60th anniversary? Yeah, me, too. I wonder when we're going to see or hear something concrete about its release ... perhaps in time for the 75th? Yeah.
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