|
Post by Kapitan on May 4, 2023 18:41:16 GMT
But, you know what I wish they/Brian would've done. First, he would've had to finish "Old Folks At Home"/Ol' Man River". OK, there was a quasi-SMiLE thing going on with 20/20, and the ending of the album could've capitalized on it. Imagine this:
Side 2
4. Cotton Fields 5. Our Prayer 6. Cabinessence 7. Old Folks At Home/Ol' Man River
With or without the Smile aspect, I think ending with some version of "Ol' Man River" could have been great. Even the recording we have (the slow, mournful one on MiC), with "he keeps on rollin' along..." as an ending is great, except the out-of-tune singing. I'd actually have explored using it to bookend a side or an album, using different versions they played with.
|
|
|
Post by B.E. on May 6, 2023 14:43:24 GMT
Nice, I see someone joined me in voting for "Winds of Change".
|
|
|
Post by Sheriff John Stone on May 6, 2023 15:05:28 GMT
"It's Just A Matter Of Time" isn't a bad closer. It is a slightly boring song...maybe close Side 1 with it. How about "I Do Love You" as a better closing track, with that nice long fade? It's also a more positive ending to the album.
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on May 6, 2023 16:37:59 GMT
"It's Just A Matter Of Time" isn't a bad closer. It is a slightly boring song... Oh my, slightly? It's like an etude you learn in 5th grade band: it's just an exercise, a lesson. It could not be more formulaic. So, so dull.
|
|
|
Post by Sheriff John Stone on May 6, 2023 17:27:32 GMT
"It's Just A Matter Of Time" isn't a bad closer. It is a slightly boring song... Oh my, slightly? It's like an etude you learn in 5th grade band: it's just an exercise, a lesson. It could not be more formulaic. So, so dull. Yes...I find all of Brian's songs on The Beach Boys falling into that category, unfortunately. "California Calling" has some life, I kinda like that one, but even that song ain't very complex. I'm not sure how much Brian wrote of "California Calling". I didn't know if Al just wanted to attach Brian's name to one of his songs.
|
|
|
Post by B.E. on May 6, 2023 23:08:50 GMT
"It's Just A Matter Of Time" isn't a bad closer. It is a slightly boring song...maybe close Side 1 with it. How about "I Do Love You" as a better closing track, with that nice long fade? It's also a more positive ending to the album. Sorry, SJS, but "I Do Love You" is my least favorite track on the album. I think it's optimally buried at the very back end, with "It's Just A Matter Of Time" being a nice, nostalgic respite to close things out.
|
|
|
Post by B.E. on May 7, 2023 12:34:48 GMT
Updated for kds Thanks for participating. We had 90 votes by 10 voters. Here are the results: Top 10 Album ClosersSurf's Up (10 votes) Caroline, No (9 votes) And Your Dream Comes True (7 votes) Don't Back Down (6 votes) Summer's Gone (6 votes) Funky Pretty (5 votes) Custom Machine (4 votes) Auld Lang Syne (4 votes) Barbara Ann (4 votes) Cool, Cool Water (4 votes) Cuddle Up (4 votes) Just Once In My Life (4 Votes) "Whistle In" and "Winds of Change" nearly made it with 3 votes. I think it's interesting that "Cabinessence" only secured 2 vote and "California Girls" received none!
|
|
|
Post by Sheriff John Stone on May 7, 2023 12:47:52 GMT
I think it's interesting that "Cabinessence only secured 1 vote and "California Girls" received none! I think it's more a lack of respect for Still Cruisin', or maybe not even recognizing it as a legitimate album, than it is for the song. It does seem like an odd closer for a new 1989 album.
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on May 7, 2023 12:54:34 GMT
I think it's interesting that "Cabinessence only secured 1 vote and "California Girls" received none! I think it's more a lack of respect for Still Cruisin', or maybe not even recognizing it as a legitimate album, than it is for the song. It does seem like an odd closer for a new 1989 album. For me, those omissions were definitely not related to the quality of the songs. I discussed "Cabinessence" earlier, but with "California Girls," Sheriff is more or less right on. It feels like cheating to add three classic songs at the end of that album, alleged concept or not. (It's a stupid concept anyway, or at least one that makes it a compilation more than a real album.) So as great as "California Girls" is, for me it's a protest (non-)vote of sorts.
|
|
|
Post by B.E. on May 7, 2023 13:07:12 GMT
I was thrilled "California Girls" didn't receive any votes! I was tempted to not even include it.
I was a little more surprised that "Cabinessence" didn't get a couple more votes, but I expected it to be divisive. Fans, understandably, associate it more with another project, and I also just don't think it's a strong closer.
When tracks don't feel like they belong on the album, that's a legitimate issue, particularly when debating appropriate openers and closers.
Edit: I just think it's interesting (possibly even amusing) that while we criticized the lack of high-quality tracks (relative to the openers, anyway), two of the very best tracks only received 1 vote between them! OK, now it's my turn: only the Beach Boys...
|
|
|
Post by Sheriff John Stone on May 7, 2023 13:23:20 GMT
I will always contend that if we (the fans) didn't know the background of the songs on 20/20, we would see - and hear - the album in a different light and be more accepting of it. Even knowing that the songs came from very different places (like "Cabinessence"), I think the album as a whole still works and is one of the group's most underrated records. Just by improving the sequencing and maybe adding "Old Folks At Home"/Ol' Man River", I think it would be a great album. As is it's a very good one.
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on May 7, 2023 13:51:03 GMT
I will always contend that if we (the fans) didn't know the background of the songs on 20/20, we would see - and hear - the album in a different light and be more accepting of it. Even knowing that the songs came from very different places (like "Cabinessence"), I think the album as a whole still works and is one of the group's most underrated records. Just by improving the sequencing and maybe adding "Old Folks At Home"/Ol' Man River", I think it would be a great album. As is it's a very good one. I think that's 100% true, and not just of 20/20 but probably several of those post- Pet Sounds albums. Many of us came to know those albums through the lenses of Smile and Brian's mental health problems. So there was always a "didn't this come from Smile?" or "how might this have been different?" or "did Brian contribute anything here? Is that his voice on background harmonies?" etc. There is a lot of story permeating those albums. While I do think 20/20 has a lot going for it musically, it's also among the most disjointed things they ever released. That's where the hodge podge nature of the songs' origins is obvious. "Cabinessence" and "The Nearest Faraway Place" and "Do It Again" sound like they were done by three different groups in three different eras!
|
|
Emdeeh
Pacific Coast Highway
Posts: 520
Likes: 532
|
Post by Emdeeh on May 7, 2023 15:11:57 GMT
I admit that I didn't vote for "CA Girls," because I tend to think of Still Cruisin' as an anthology album with a few new tracks included, instead of as a regular studio album.
|
|
|
Post by Sheriff John Stone on May 7, 2023 18:12:59 GMT
I will always contend that if we (the fans) didn't know the background of the songs on 20/20, we would see - and hear - the album in a different light and be more accepting of it. Even knowing that the songs came from very different places (like "Cabinessence"), I think the album as a whole still works and is one of the group's most underrated records. Just by improving the sequencing and maybe adding "Old Folks At Home"/Ol' Man River", I think it would be a great album. As is it's a very good one. I think that's 100% true, and not just of 20/20 but probably several of those post- Pet Sounds albums. Many of us came to know those albums through the lenses of Smile and Brian's mental health problems. So there was always a "didn't this come from Smile?" or "how might this have been different?" or "did Brian contribute anything here? Is that his voice on background harmonies?" etc. There is a lot of story permeating those albums. While I do think 20/20 has a lot going for it musically, it's also among the most disjointed things they ever released. That's where the hodge podge nature of the songs' origins is obvious. "Cabinessence" and "The Nearest Faraway Place" and "Do It Again" sound like they were done by three different groups in three different eras! I really don't find 20/20 to be any more disjointed than the group's following three albums - Sunflower, Surf's Up, and Carl & The Passions. When Brian retreated after Friends, the group adopted that new...formula...of getting songwriting contributions from 5 or 6 Beach Boys on their albums. Of course there was going to be different musical styles. You had six very distinct personalities. Other than some different production values, again I don't hear or feel a jarring hodge podge nature, unless that means varied lead singers and uniquely personal songs (depending on who wrote them). I will add that this was also the formula used on almost every subsequent Beach Boys' album for the next 40+ years with the exception of 15 Big Ones, Love You, and That's Why God Made The Radio. Disjointed was the new norm!
As far as "Cabinessence" sounding out of place on 20/20? Not really. Not to me. It sounded like Carl's voice from 1968-1969; the same with Brian's high vocal. Van Dyke's lyrics weren't too "out there". The banjo? As I posted above, with some better sequencing - putting "Cabinessence" near "Cotton Fields" and even "Bluebirds Over The Mountain" - they could've blended it in. I still don't think it sounds bad where it is. Also, 20/20 is similar to the subsequent two albums in that each of those had SMiLE songs inserted with "Cool, Cool Water" on Sunflower and "Surf's Up" on Surf's Up.
|
|
|
Post by B.E. on May 7, 2023 18:40:32 GMT
Overall, I agree with you, SJS, that 20/20 is a very good album and sequencing-wise works much better than it has any right to. But, that said, objectively, the production differences between the tracks on 20/20 are more noticeable, more disjointed, than the surrounding albums.
As for "Cabinessence", and other Smile material with VDP lyrics, they absolutely standout when removed from the context of Smile and placed alongside lyrics written by the group. If anything, I think our familiarity "tricks us" into accepting them as "not too far out". Although, perhaps it works better with "Surf's Up"/Surf's Up because you've also got Jack Rieley's lyrical contributions which are equally "out there". I don't know, I both agree and disagree with you, SJS! 20/20 is an awkward album, but it's also very good - it's both.
|
|