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Post by B.E. on Aug 7, 2022 13:21:34 GMT
I recently (as in a week or two ago) had an epiphany: I prefer Smiley Smile to Smile (TSS Disc 1; tracks 1-19). As a younger/newer fan, I don't believe I even allowed myself to consider such a thing as the reputations and fan consensus of each didn't seem to permit it. I had always maintained that I preferred Pet Sounds. And not just to the incomplete Smile but even to the imaginary-best-case-version-for-each-of-us Smile. What I enjoy about The Smile Sessions is the bonus material. The tracks at the backend of Disc 1 and all the session material on Discs 2-5. That stuff intrigues me. It's fascinating and inspiring.
I've enjoyed reading, as a sidebar, where each of you would rank Smile had it been included among the studio albums (although, I do wonder what version of "Smile" each of you are thinking of and if you're being as critical as you would if there were a definitive tracklist/sequence). SJS and Kapitan seem to hold the consensus view (at least as I've perceived it) while Emdeeh and, especially, carllove do not. I seem to agree more with carllove here, but I might even go a bit further. It's hard, though. I've spent a good 15 minutes trying to place it somewhere but it's just not the same thing. You've all heard of comparing apples to oranges? Well, I think this is more like comparing apples to flour or something! Part of me is thinking that I'd rank it in the bottom half of the 'B' tier, but if I were going more by how often I listen to it? I'd probably have to go bottom half of the 'C' tier.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 7, 2022 13:43:13 GMT
I've enjoyed reading, as a sidebar, where each of you would rank Smile had it been included among the studio albums (although, I do wonder what version of "Smile" each of you are thinking of and if you're being as critical as you would if there were a definitive tracklist/sequence). SJS and Kapitan seem to hold the consensus view (at least as I've perceived it) It's a fair point and good question. I think I actually even noted that one of the big problems with it is that I don't believe there is a Smile. And without question, we'd need a true, finished album to be fair about rankings or ratings. If we can quibble about track orders or versions or this or that odd song included or excluded from other albums, certainly we need a definitive track order, set of versions, and final track listing of which songs are included or excluded.
My assumption of putting it among the top few albums comes from what we know: I think an album with Our Prayer, Heroes and Villains, Wind Chimes, Wonderful, Surf's Up, Cabinessence, and Good Vibrations just can't help but rate highly, assuming actually released versions. I think if we went back and looked at our top BBs songs, those probably are all among my top 100, and I'm guessing quite a few are in my top 50. After that come the things that allow for some wiggle room that could bump it up or down my list depending on how they'd end up.
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Emdeeh
Pacific Coast Highway
Posts: 520
Likes: 532
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Post by Emdeeh on Aug 7, 2022 13:44:30 GMT
What I enjoy about I've enjoyed reading, as a sidebar, where each of you would rank Smile had it been included among the studio albums (although, I do wonder what version of "Smile" each of you are thinking of and if you're being as critical as you would if there were a definitive tracklist/sequence). I've never been interested in assembling an ideal version of Smile, so the version that appears on The Smile Sessions is what I'm going by.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 7, 2022 13:50:04 GMT
My assumption of putting it among the top few albums comes from what we know: I think an album with Our Prayer, Heroes and Villains, Wind Chimes, Wonderful, Surf's Up, Cabinessence, and Good Vibrations just can't help but rate highly, assuming actually released versions. I think if we went back and looked at our top BBs songs, those probably are all among my top 100, and I'm guessing quite a few are in my top 50. After that come the things that allow for some wiggle room that could bump it up or down my list depending on how they'd end up. I checked my Top 100, and sure enough, I think it shows I like those aforementioned songs sufficiently to rate the album very highly: two in the Top 10; two more in the Top 20; one more in the Top 35; and the caboose at 75. If eight of the album's songs fall into my Top 75 (and seven in my Top 35), that album can't help but do well. I mean, as long as the rest of it wasn't Bull Session With Big Daddy, Cassius Love v Sonny Wilson, and Our Favorite Recording Sessions.
Surf's Up - 2 Wonderful - 9 Cabinessence - 15 Heroes & Villains - 16 Good Vibrations - 22 Our Prayer/Gee - 23 Wind Chimes - 34 Vegetables - 75
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Post by B.E. on Aug 7, 2022 14:07:38 GMT
Could someone share the link to BBs Top 100 thread? I can't seem to find it.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 7, 2022 14:16:30 GMT
Could someone share the link to BBs Top 100 thread? I can't seem to find it. You got it. (Took a little digging for me, too!)
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Post by carllove on Aug 7, 2022 14:45:31 GMT
I was thinking of the Smile Sessions and not BWPS as well. Because my second Beach Boys album was the Good Vibrations box set, I’ve usually listened to the Smile songs on Disc 2 of the GV Boxset. I don’t even own a copy of Smile- though I have listened to it several times on Apple Music. That is probably the reason I don’t rank it higher. I like the GV Boxset so much, I feel like I get all of the good stuff on the second disc. It is evident from my top 100 list that I do like quite a few songs from Smile - just prefer to listen to them elsewhere.
From my top 100: 19. Cabin Essence 29. Good Vibrations 30. Wonderful 31. Heroes and Villains 36. Wind Chimes 72. Roll Plymouth Rock (Do You Like Worms) 91. Vegetables
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Post by B.E. on Aug 7, 2022 14:46:07 GMT
Could someone share the link to BBs Top 100 thread? I can't seem to find it. You got it. (Took a little digging for me, too!)
Thanks, Kapitan. I'm glad to see I wasn't exaggerating things on my end. I only had four Smile tracks in my top 100 (all top 40, though). The most similar album by this measure appears to be Shut Down Vol. 2 ('C' tier) which had five (4 in the top 50). You know, I hadn't really linked these two projects in my mind before, but they are pretty similar in the disparity between the highs and lows which results in an uneven listening experience (IMO).
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Aug 7, 2022 16:07:10 GMT
I recently (as in a week or two ago) had an epiphany: I prefer Smiley Smile to Smile ( TSS Disc 1; tracks 1-19). As a younger/newer fan, I don't believe I even allowed myself to consider such a thing as the reputations and fan consensus of each didn't seem to permit it. I had always maintained that I preferred Pet Sounds. And not just to the incomplete Smile but even to the imaginary-best-case-version-for-each-of-us Smile. What I enjoy about The Smile Sessions is the bonus material. The tracks at the backend of Disc 1 and all the session material on Discs 2-5. That stuff intrigues me. It's fascinating and inspiring. I've enjoyed reading, as a sidebar, where each of you would rank Smile had it been included among the studio albums (although, I do wonder what version of "Smile" each of you are thinking of and if you're being as critical as you would if there were a definitive tracklist/sequence). SJS and Kapitan seem to hold the consensus view (at least as I've perceived it) while Emdeeh and, especially, carllove do not. I seem to agree more with carllove here, but I might even go a bit further. It's hard, though. I've spent a good 15 minutes trying to place it somewhere but it's just not the same thing. You've all heard of comparing apples to oranges? Well, I think this is more like comparing apples to flour or something! Part of me is thinking that I'd rank it in the bottom half of the 'B' tier, but if I were going more by how often I listen to it? I'd probably have to go bottom half of the 'C' tier. For me, there is enough SMiLE to consider it in various polls, surveys, and discussions. Not to turn this into another SMiLE discussion/thread (though I love 'em ), but we have months of recordings (many assumed finished), an album title, a handwritten tracklist submitted to Capitol Records, a front album cover, a back album cover, an illustrated booklet, commissioned artwork, and produced/recorded radio advertisements. That's enough for me to have a SMiLE in some fashion. To be as specific as I can about it, I think of SMiLE as a twelve track album comprised of "those songs" (and you know the ones I mean ) with a few minor additions, subtractions, and alterations. Your mileage may vary.
Sequenced? No. Finished? No. Released? No. Big, big regret for fans and especially the group and especially Brian. But it lives. When somebody says SMiLE we know what they're talking about. It doesn't have to be dissected every time. Think of it like Sweet Insanity. That wasn't released either, but we know what it was/is. We know...enough about it.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 7, 2022 16:23:36 GMT
For me, there is enough SMiLE to consider it in various polls, surveys, and discussions. Not to turn this into another SMiLE discussion/thread (though I love 'em ), but we have months of recordings (many assumed finished), an album title, a handwritten tracklist submitted to Capitol Records, a front album cover, a back album cover, an illustrated booklet, commissioned artwork, and produced/recorded radio advertisements. That's enough for me to have a SMiLE in some fashion. To be as specific as I can about it, I think of SMiLE as a twelve track album comprised of "those songs" (and you know the ones I mean ) with a few minor additions, subtractions, and alterations. Your mileage may vary.
Sequenced? No. Finished? No. Released? No. Big, big regret for fans and especially the group and especially Brian. But it lives. When somebody says SMiLE we know what they're talking about. It doesn't have to be dissected every time. Think of it like Sweet Insanity. That wasn't released either, but we know what it was/is. We know...enough about it.
I think there is enough to rate and rank to a certain degree, but it's just the last fine-tuning sorts of things that can make or break a list where it gets tough. I mean, I've most often included it over all these years, after all. I agree with you that most of what would've been there, was there. Just that things like finishing recordings, finishing mixes, and finalizing things do indeed matter at some point.
Sweet Insanity strikes me as different in that it was apparently considered finished (twice?), but was rejected. So it was further along, even to the point of it being unreleased being the only incomplete thing about it.
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Post by jk on Aug 7, 2022 16:59:47 GMT
Deary me, this took me an age to organize! (Just call me Mr Technology.) Anyway, it's here now, for what it's worth:
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Post by B.E. on Aug 7, 2022 17:10:45 GMT
When somebody says SMiLE we know what they're talking about. It doesn't have to be dissected every time. Think of it like Sweet Insanity. That wasn't released either, but we know what it was/is. We know...enough about it. Yes, we know enough to consider it in various polls, surveys, and discussions, but specifically when ranking studio albums against each other, I maintain that it's problematic to include unreleased albums (Smile, Sweet Insanity, Adult/Child, whatever) - especially when there is significant overlap in the material. But, hey, I'd be game either way. I always enjoy these types of threads. Anyway, this thread is working out just fine. We're all ranking the studio albums, and while we wait to respond to individual lists, we discuss where we'd have ranked Smile. Win - Win.
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Post by B.E. on Aug 7, 2022 17:13:59 GMT
Deary me, this took me an age to organize! (Just call me Mr Technology.) Hey, you managed to post it in such a way that it is large enough to read without clicking on it. So, well done...Mr. Technology!
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Aug 7, 2022 17:31:22 GMT
When somebody says SMiLE we know what they're talking about. It doesn't have to be dissected every time. Think of it like Sweet Insanity. That wasn't released either, but we know what it was/is. We know...enough about it. Yes, we know enough to consider it in various polls, surveys, and discussions, but specifically when ranking studio albums against each other, I maintain that it's problematic to include unreleased albums (Smile, Sweet Insanity, Adult/Child, whatever) - especially when there is significant overlap in the material. But, hey, I'd be game either way. I always enjoy these types of threads. Anyway, this thread is working out just fine. We're all ranking the studio albums, and while we wait to respond to individual lists, we discuss where we'd have ranked Smile. Win - Win. I think for this thread/discussion, it's probably a good idea to NOT include SMiLE because, as you said, that could open a can of worms when it comes to all of the unreleased albums. The way this is going is perfectly fine. There will inevitably be other chances and other threads to inject SMiLE into the discussion. And, I'm enjoying studying everybody's rankings so I can prepare my questions!
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Post by jk on Aug 7, 2022 17:40:17 GMT
Deary me, this took me an age to organize! (Just call me Mr Technology.) Hey, you managed to post it in such a way that it is large enough to read without clicking on it. So, well done...Mr. Technology! Ha, thanks. Well, after a modicum of farting around, I went to my old friend Postimage.org and clicked on "message board size". So yes, all's well that ends etc.
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