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Post by carllove on Aug 26, 2022 17:22:14 GMT
kds - How can you place Wild Honey - not only in the "C" tier - but AFTER CATP? Simple answer, I think CATP is a better album. I tend not to think Wild Honey is an strong an album as a lot of fans. It's alright, i like Darlin (of course), Country Air, Let the Wind Blow, Aren't You Glad, and the cover of I Was Made to Love Her. I much prefer the live version of the title track to the studio cut. But, to me, I think I put it in C Tier for my perceived lack of truly great songs, with some weaker material on the back end like Mama Says and Boogaloo. I actually prefer Blondie's live version of Wild Honey, to any of Carl's. That black and white video from the 70's of him singing Wild Honey just slays me! So yeah - I was on cloud 9 when I got to see him sing it in person, this Summer!
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Post by kds on Aug 26, 2022 17:30:40 GMT
Simple answer, I think CATP is a better album. I tend not to think Wild Honey is an strong an album as a lot of fans. It's alright, i like Darlin (of course), Country Air, Let the Wind Blow, Aren't You Glad, and the cover of I Was Made to Love Her. I much prefer the live version of the title track to the studio cut. But, to me, I think I put it in C Tier for my perceived lack of truly great songs, with some weaker material on the back end like Mama Says and Boogaloo. Darlin' is not a great song? Heck - I have I Was Made to Love Her at #15 (and Darlin' at #9). I don't think CATP has any truly great songs. I think it's a muddy mess. I did have Cuddle Up at #41 and All This Is That at #52 and that is it. Guess we both have our own opinions or this place would be boring. I won't even go into Friends or 20/20. I know - they are a mood for me. A mood I enjoy alot - but not everyone's cup of tea. At least those made your B tier - so I respect that. I didn't say Darlin wasn't great, I said the album lacks truly great songs. I should've specified that Darlin is probably the only track on the album I'd call "great." I think CATP has All This is That and Hold On Dear Brother. I kinda feel the same with Friends, although, I think Friends is a better listen overall.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Aug 27, 2022 13:16:09 GMT
BIGGEST AGREEMENT: Your Top 5 albums. No argument there.
BIGGEST DISAGREEMENT: I don't think That's Why God Made The Radio belongs on the same tier as the other ones you have there. No Carl, no Dennis, little Mike...good album but not THAT good.
RATED TOO HIGH: I was a little surprised to see Holland that high. Surfer Girl before Shut Down Volume 2 and 20/20? It pains me to say it but the Christmas album is verrrry high. Oh, and The Beach Boys (1985). Meh.
Rated TOO LOW: Yes, Love You again, but now you crossed the line! Worse than Summer In Paradise? 14 Brian Wilson songs? I (and everybody) ranked Stars & Stripes really low; I don't think it's as bad as Summer In Paradise but I think I understand your reasoning.
EDIT: Sorry, kds, I thought I copied your rankings graphic.
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Post by B.E. on Aug 27, 2022 13:21:12 GMT
RATED TOO HIGH: ... Surfer Girl before Shut Down Volume 2 and 20/20? Uhhh, yeah, that's the correct ranking.
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Post by kds on Aug 27, 2022 13:34:36 GMT
BIGGEST DISAGREEMENT: I don't think That's Why God Made The Radio belongs on the same tier as the other ones you have there. No Carl, no Dennis, little Mike...good album but not THAT good.
RATED TOO HIGH: I was a little surprised to see Holland that high. Surfer Girl before Shut Down Volume 2 and 20/20? It pains me to say it but the Christmas album is verrrry high. Oh, and The Beach Boys (1985). Meh.
Rated TOO LOW: Yes, Love You again, but now you crossed the line! Worse than Summer In Paradise? 14 Brian Wilson songs? I (and everybody) ranked Stars & Stripes really low, but I don't think it's as bad as Summer In Paradise, and I think I understand your reasoning. I'll admit I'm quite bullish on TWGMTR, but it's remained one of my most played BB albums. Personally, I don't care who writes the songs, I just enjoy them for what they are. So, I do enjoy the songs on the mostly Brian free Holland far more than the Brian heavy Love You. I really don't think mid to late 70s Brian stacks up against 1963-66 Brian. As for rating Stars and Stripes as the worst. Frankly, I have no use for this album. I never even bothered to get a copy. I much prefer Mike and Terry's middle of the road attempt at a BB album than a country tribute album featuring The Beach Boys. I think Surfer Girl is more consistent than SDV2 and 20/20. And, at the risk of repeating myself, despite my issues with the song sequence, the Xmas album is still one of my favorite holiday albums. I think I covered everything.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Aug 27, 2022 13:44:50 GMT
BIGGEST DISAGREEMENT: I don't think That's Why God Made The Radio belongs on the same tier as the other ones you have there. No Carl, no Dennis, little Mike...good album but not THAT good.
RATED TOO HIGH: I was a little surprised to see Holland that high. Surfer Girl before Shut Down Volume 2 and 20/20? It pains me to say it but the Christmas album is verrrry high. Oh, and The Beach Boys (1985). Meh.
Rated TOO LOW: Yes, Love You again, but now you crossed the line! Worse than Summer In Paradise? 14 Brian Wilson songs? I (and everybody) ranked Stars & Stripes really low, but I don't think it's as bad as Summer In Paradise, and I think I understand your reasoning. I think Surfer Girl is more consistent than SDV2 and 20/20. Interesting. The reason I dock Surfer Girl a few points/rankings is inconsistency. It undeniably has some all-timers on there - "Surfer Girl", "Catch A Wave", "Little Deuce", and even "Hawaii" and "Your Summer Dream". But that's only half the album and I sense some clunkers/filler with the two instrumentals and "South Bay Surfer". Not a big fan of "Our Car Club" either but many fans appear to be. I agree, good album, just not THAT good. Surfers rule!
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 27, 2022 14:06:18 GMT
I think Surfer Girl is more consistent than SDV2 and 20/20. And, that is the reason I dock Surfer Girl a few points/rankings. It undeniably has some all-timers on there - "Surfer Girl", "Catch A Wave", "Little Deuce", and even "Hawaii" and "Your Summer Dream". But that's only half the album and I sense some clunkers/filler with the two instrumentals and "South Bay Surfer". Not a big fan of "Our Car Club" either but many fans appear to be. I agree, good album, just not THAT good. Surfers rule! I think both Surfer Girl and Shut Down Vol 2 suffer the same problem, which is mixing absolutely top-tier all-timers with terrible comedy tracks, stupid filler, and mediocre instrumentals. Combine them and you've got one of the greatest albums ever. Alas...I guess churning out three albums a year is going to have its downside.
Imagine the Beach Boys taking one full year after Surfin USA (March 1963), which is when Shut Down Vol. 2 was released (March 1964). The resulting album could have looked like:
Hawaii Catch a Wave Surfer Girl Keep An Eye On Summer The Warmth of the Sun
The Surfer Moon
Why Do Fools Fall in Love
Be True to Your School
Little Deuce Coupe Car Crazy Cutie
This Car of Mine Don't Worry Baby In My Room Fun Fun Fun
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 27, 2022 14:12:39 GMT
BIGGEST DISAGREEMENT: I don't think That's Why God Made The Radio belongs on the same tier as the other ones you have there. No Carl, no Dennis, little Mike...good album but not THAT good. For me, that is a theoretically correct complaint that doesn't always pan out in practice. Albums like MIU, LA, KTSA, and then the other post-Dennis albums up until TWGMTR had all three or two of the three to varying degrees. To me that demonstrates you can have those great talents on very mediocre (or worse) albums. Whoever was behind it all, TWGMTR is a better album than those despite the personnel challenges.
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Post by kds on Aug 27, 2022 21:00:01 GMT
I think Surfer Girl is more consistent than SDV2 and 20/20. Interesting. The reason I dock Surfer Girl a few points/rankings is inconsistency. It undeniably has some all-timers on there - "Surfer Girl", "Catch A Wave", "Little Deuce", and even "Hawaii" and "Your Summer Dream". But that's only half the album and I sense some clunkers/filler with the two instrumentals and "South Bay Surfer". Not a big fan of "Our Car Club" either but many fans appear to be. I agree, good album, just not THAT good. Surfers rule! I think you can make the argument that 20/20 might be more consistent than Surfer Girl, but IMO nothing on 20/20 is as good as In My Room or Surfer Girl. SDV2 ends with three duds, and has Cassius v Sonny on Side 1.
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Post by kds on Aug 27, 2022 21:02:53 GMT
Sheriff,
You're somewhat responsible for my A Tier placement of TWGMTR. Your persistent defense of Spring Vacation probably helped me come around on that song.
Two or three years ago, I'd have put TWGMTR high on the B Tier instead of low on the A.
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Post by jk on Aug 27, 2022 21:06:20 GMT
I've never understood the lack of love for "The Rocking Surfer". That modulation at 1:40, with toms to the fore and those high-and-dry guitar pizzicatos, is a stroke of genius:
"Boogie Woodie" ain't that bad either...
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Aug 27, 2022 21:14:31 GMT
Sheriff, You're somewhat responsible for my A Tier placement of TWGMTR. Your persistent defense of Spring Vacation probably helped me come around on that song. Two or three years ago, I'd have put TWGMTR high on the B Tier instead of low on the A.
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Post by B.E. on Aug 27, 2022 21:17:25 GMT
Yeah, I don't think the "lesser" tracks on Surfer Girl and SDV2 are equivalent. Both instrumentals on Surfer Girl have high production values and fit the album quite nicely. As a result, the album feels more consistent and cohesive. (And there are NO talk/comedy tracks on Surfer Girl.) With 20/20, there are stronger arguments to be made on its behalf, but I still think it comes up short on cohesion. "The Nearest Faraway Place", however forgiving you'd like to be about it, does NOT fit the album as well as those Surfer Girl instrumentals do, for example.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Aug 27, 2022 21:23:36 GMT
Yeah, I don't think the "lesser" tracks on Surfer Girl and SDV2 are equivalent. Both instrumentals on Surfer Girl have high production values and fit the album quite nicely. As a result, the album feels more consistent and cohesive. (And there are NO talk/comedy tracks on Surfer Girl.) With 20/20, there are stronger arguments to be made on its behalf, but I still think it comes up short on cohesion. "The Nearest Faraway Place", however forgiving you'd like to be about it, does NOT fit the album as well as those Surfer Girl instrumentals do, for example.A quick comment on that. "The Nearest Faraway" suffers from terrible sequencing on 20/20. It does not feel right just after "All I Want To Do". It would've been more effective around "I Went To Sleep" and "Time To Get Alone". It's a very good fit that went unrealized.
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Post by B.E. on Aug 27, 2022 21:46:38 GMT
kds , I think, for me, the two biggest surprises of your list are having Surf's Up that high, and above Holland, and also that you have Surfin' USA as high as you do. I guess I just don't recall you talking up those albums like you do others. I was about to say that that might be the 2nd highest ranking of Surfin' USA (after JK's 'A' tier, #2 overall) but looking back there's been a lot of love for Surfin' USA (which I think is pretty darn cool - and not what I'd have guessed based on other BBs message boards). As it turns out - you, AGD , carllove , and Emdeeh all rated it mid to high 'B' tier (and between #11-14 overall).
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