|
Post by Kapitan on Jul 30, 2022 22:04:06 GMT
I came across this Eddie Trunk show comparing Van Halen's first Sammy Hagar-led album, 5150, with David Lee Roth's almost contemporaneous first full-length album, Eat 'Em And Smile (both 1986).
I loved the idea of thinking about a head-to-head review of former bandmates or otherwise related musicians' relatively contemporaneous releases. So I thought I'd start off with that one to see what anyone thinks about one versus the other. But I also figured this might be a fun one to do as a rolling thread, switching "competitions" every week or so, maybe even adding polls?
On these two albums, I found this aspect very interesting: one caller voted for 5150 because it was Van Halen's first "serious" album, where they became a "real band," while Roth was typically showy and juvenile; another caller voted for Eat 'Em And Smile because it was the raucous, rowdy, obnoxious kind of not grown-up Van Halen that he wanted to hear as opposed to "adult contemporary" 5150. It really says a lot about the subjectivity of music. The exact same thing can be acknowledged by two different people, with their opinions being polar opposites literally for that same reason.
|
|
|
Post by kds on Jul 31, 2022 0:44:48 GMT
It's amusing that someone would call an album with Get Up, Summer Nights, and Inside a "serious" album.
I enjoy both albums, but I'd go with 5150, which is actually the first VH album I ever owned. Its probably still my favorite Hagar era album.
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Jul 31, 2022 11:56:52 GMT
I almost certainly would go with 5150, too. Part of it for me is just thinking back to the excitement: I was only 10 (actually not quite 10) when it was released, but there was a buzz around it. A new Van Halen album was an event, and especially one with "the 'I Can't Drive 55' guy," which was the only way I knew Sammy Hagar then.
Those songs are quite memorable to this day, even if they do indeed sound dated. That's where I can also understand the criticism: the sound of the album 5150 definitely sounded more like the pop-rock of its day than Van Halen albums had before, with not just the synths but ballads. However, while I think Eat 'Em and Smile wasn't quite so poppy, let's be serious: it had plenty of that David Lee Roth vaudeville style, with lounge covers and strings and horns. So it's not as if that was Megadeth or something...
DLR's album does include the better band, technically speaking, if you don't count the singing. I mean, it's basically a trio of "Eddie Van Halens," in terms of technical ability, with Steve Vai, Billy Sheehan, and Greg Bissonette.
I think I'll give them both a spin today, just to be sure.
|
|
|
Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jul 31, 2022 13:23:39 GMT
The one that immediately comes to mind was Brian Wilson releasing his first solo album in July 1988 while The Beach Boys released "Kokomo" in June 1988. We all know the results - "Kokomo" went to No. 1 and Brian's solo album, while reaching a respectable No. 54, was considered a disappointment, at least commercially ("Love And Mercy" failed to chart).
We could spend a lot of time analyzing that situation and how and why it played out the way it did, but I think, in addition to "Kokomo" piggybacking on the success of Cocktail, it was also a matter of giving the fans what they wanted. With Brian's solo album, I think fans were expecting The Beach Boys' genius to give us more, well, good old Beach Boys' music, or at least some new, cutting-edge music. We got neither IMO. And, of course, with "Kokomo" we got the melody, plenty of hooks, and the familiar Mike Love and Carl Wilson voices. Game over.
|
|
|
Post by kds on Jul 31, 2022 15:51:17 GMT
Coincidentally, I listened to Eat Em and Smile on Friday afternoon.
I think both albums have a bit of a summertime feel, most obviously on Summer Nights (VH) & Goin Crazy (DLR).
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Jul 31, 2022 16:22:18 GMT
OK, I'm listening to 5150 now--maybe for the first time ever in headphones. And uh, I don't even need to listen to Eat Em and Smile (though I will, because I love it) to know which way I'd have to vote on this one. It's so easily 5150. Maybe I just wasn't appreciating how great it is, both in terms of the playing and the songs. There are 6-7 great songs on this album, which is 9 songs long. And while I think of it as feeling very '80s and synth-dominated, it's a heavy guitar record (despite the synths).
And oh, I'm only in "Dreams" which is track 4. But just hearing these songs again, and knowing what's to come, it's plain as day which was the better album.
Also, somehow I am appreciating Eddie Van Halen even more than I always did ... and I thought he was the greatest rock guitarist of all time by the time I was 8 years old.
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Jul 31, 2022 16:57:08 GMT
Up to "Shyboy" (i.e., track two) on EE&S now, and I really do have to say, the musicianship is over-the-top brilliant and hilarious. Vai and Sheehan seem to have channeled DLR's persona in musical form. It's so insane.
|
|
|
Post by kds on Jul 31, 2022 17:14:40 GMT
OK, I'm listening to 5150 now--maybe for the first time ever in headphones. And uh, I don't even need to listen to Eat Em and Smile (though I will, because I love it) to know which way I'd have to vote on this one. It's so easily 5150. Maybe I just wasn't appreciating how great it is, both in terms of the playing and the songs. There are 6-7 great songs on this album, which is 9 songs long. And while I think of it as feeling very '80s and synth-dominated, it's a heavy guitar record (despite the synths).
And oh, I'm only in "Dreams" which is track 4. But just hearing these songs again, and knowing what's to come, it's plain as day which was the better album.
Also, somehow I am appreciating Eddie Van Halen even more than I always did ... and I thought he was the greatest rock guitarist of all time by the time I was 8 years old.
I really feel like EVH grew as a musician in the Hagar era, as that era brought out other colors in his guitar playing.
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Jul 31, 2022 17:48:59 GMT
I think what surprised me listening back now is how much of it sounds like just one guitar being played straight through. I know a person might think, yeah, that's what a guitarist does: play his part straight through a song. But especially in the 80s (and again constantly since, especially in the digital era), that wasn't and isn't true: it's a cobbled together take, or layered together disparate parts. But I have heard how often EVH actually just recorded tracks straight through, live, and a lot of this sounds like it.
Not always, of course. Something like "Dreams" has acoustic guitar in the intro, rhythm and lead guitars elsewhere, etc. There is overdubbing and I'm sure there is comping together best takes. But the guy really did amazing things with just one guitar, making a rhythm and lead out of one instrument, just two hands, ten fingers...
|
|
|
Post by kds on Aug 1, 2022 12:20:07 GMT
On the topic of Eat Em and Smile, Billy Sheehan says he has pro shot footage of one of the shows from that tour. ultimateclassicrock.com/billy-sheehan-david-lee-roth-eat-em-and-smile-tour-video/If it ever gets released, which probably isn't overly likely since I don't believe there's any officially released concert footage with DLR on vocals, VH or solo, it could make for an interesting comparison to the concert film Van Halen released from their first tour with Sammy - Live Without a Net.
|
|
|
Post by kds on Aug 1, 2022 12:52:10 GMT
Just a couple years after the DLR v VH albums, we had a divided Pink Floyd.
Roger Waters and David Gilmour each released solo albums in 1984, but at the time, it appeared as if Pink Floyd might be no more. They didn't even bother to tour on their The Final Cut album.
In 1985, Waters announced he'd left the band, assuming that the band would cease to exist without him. Well, you know what happens with you assume.
In 1986, David Gilmour and Nick Mason began work on a new Floyd album. Waters took the band to court. Richard Wright, who'd been dismissed from the band after The Wall tours was brought back into the fold to make a stronger case for Floyd, and Gilmour, Mason, and Wright beat Waters in court.
In June 1987, Waters released his second solo album - Radio KAOS. In September 1987, Pink Floyd released A Momentary Lapse of Reason.
While both albums have some 80s trappings, the Floyd album has held up far better. KAOS is almost devoid of notable lead guitar work while MLOR is a showcase for Gilmour's soloing. KAOS finds Waters voice much more hoarse than on previous albums. MLOR sees Gilmour in fine vocal form.
Waters and Floyd embarked on competing tours. Floyd had no trouble selling tickets to arenas and even stadiums. Waters struggled to see tickets, and wouldn't tour again until 1999, when Floyd were off the road.
Radio KAOS does have some solid songs buried underneath the dated sound, like The Powers That Be and Home. MLOR includes songs that have become Floyd classics like On the Turning Away and Sorrow, as well as Learning to Fly, which has become a classic rock staple.
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Aug 1, 2022 12:57:44 GMT
That Sheehan footage would be fun to see. I've seen some fan footage of that tour, but something pro-shot would be great.
|
|
|
Post by kds on Aug 1, 2022 13:06:08 GMT
I'd love to see it. It's amazing to me that there is zero official live footage of Roth out there. Van Halen released two concert films in the Hagar era, not a one with Roth.
|
|
|
Post by Sheriff John Stone on Aug 1, 2022 13:09:34 GMT
A quick question...Did I jump the gun with my post about BW 1988/Kokomo? I read through the thread again, and I'm wondering if we are addressing one "competition" at a time, or one per week? Clarification?
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Aug 1, 2022 13:18:48 GMT
A quick question...Did I jump the gun with my post about BW 1988/Kokomo? I read through the thread again, and I'm wondering if we are addressing one "competition" at a time, or one per week? Clarification? I guess the thread wasn't (and isn't) too well defined, so that is up for discussion. But I do think it's probably a bit easier to do one at a time, otherwise I'm afraid we'll mostly just name a "competition" on our minds and everyone will just move on w/o discussing them. But really I hadn't formalized anything. Personally, I'll be getting to your BW/Kokomo topic, though! It's obviously a good one.
|
|