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Post by bellesofparisstan on Dec 4, 2021 20:27:42 GMT
I’m not sure why so many people think that Brian is touring for the money. I’m not talking about here, I haven’t really seen that sentiment show up in this thread or anything, I’ve just seen it tossed around quite a bit over the years. Brian Wilson is worth somewhere between $75 million and $120 million. I guarantee you that a very, very, very minuscule portion of that money comes from the last 10 years of touring. As for if he should retire, I have mixed feelings on it just like everyone else, but also I don’t believe that it’s up to me. On one hand, when I see him frequently go on stage, barely able to walk, basically talking through all of his songs, it makes me feel sorry for the guy, and it makes me wonder why he’s still out there doing it. On the other hand, especially watching the LPR documentary, I think it’s made very, very clear that outside of touring in the small amount of recording that Brian does these days, his life is very boring, and not exactly the most fulfilling for him. I believe there’s a part in the movie where he tells Jason that he doesn’t really have people who he can just “shoot the sh*t with” anymore. And I think that’s exactly why he continues touring, not because he’s being forced, not because he exactly enjoys the performing aspect, but because for him, it’s a way to have people to still “shoot the sh*t with.” At least that’s my theory, obviously there’s no way to know if it’s true or not, but just going off of things that Brian and people around him have said, I think it’s quite likely. He’s not really the biggest fan of performing, it still makes him nervous quite a bit, and he doesn’t exactly put on a good show every single time, but, at least for him, it’s better than just sitting at home by himself watching tv with absolutely no camaraderie or mental stimulation.
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Post by kds on Dec 5, 2021 2:04:00 GMT
I think you hear that "doing it for the money" line about a lot of legacy acts. And the ticket prices for some of these shows doesn't really help the artists' case.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Dec 5, 2021 2:43:57 GMT
While Brian Wilson has a bunch of kids and a young(er) wife, I never really thought that he was touring for the money. I put money way down the pecking order of reasons why he tours. For the sake of discussion, these are the reasons - in order - why I think he is still touring:
1. Socialization - to be a functioning human being, to interact with people, to hopefully engage in conversations, to experience life on the outside, to be stimulated by real people, to experience different emotions, laugh a little, maybe interact with fans.
2. Physical Therapy - get off the couch, get out of the recliner, walk on and off the planes, walk to and from the buses, walk into the restaurants, walk to and from the elevators, walk around the venues he's playing, just get that poor old body to move!
3. Music Therapy - express himself, keep his skills intact, enjoy the music, feel different emotions from the music, take him away from other more trying situations (if there are any), do something you EXCEL at, be productive, maybe come up with some ideas for new songs, basically Brian Wilson IS music; it's what he's supposed to be doing.
4. Positive Feedback - from fans, the media, his bandmates, the stage hands...everyone. Embrace the positivity that the live performances bring, be proud, feel the love. Who doesn't want or like this, but does an 80 year-old Brian Wilson really need much more of this. He knows he's loved.
5. $$$$$$$$$ - Oh, he's doing alright with the touring; he might not be making the big bucks but his fees are pretty high. A lot of tax write-offs, keeps his band employed and loyal, and it takes care of his kids' kids' kids.
6. Artistic Reasons - Yes, sadly, I am listing this last, and it's different from Music Therapy. No playing of an instrument, no interacting with the band, no directing/arranging the music (the stories of Brian being active at soundchecks are an exception I think), very little interacting verbally with his audience, and "going through the motions" with his vocals. I would not categorize Brian's live performances as works of art. Now, the band is another thing.
Would he accomplish any of these goals sitting in the house? Probably not.
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Post by lonelysummer on Dec 5, 2021 6:38:18 GMT
Were the Wilson/Paley sessions all funded by Brian alone? That's where I imagine him wanting to be - in the studio. But that was back when he was brimming with song ideas. In fact, it seems that from the second time Landy came on the scene, Brian was re-energized as a songwriter, ideas pouring out of him. Some ended up on the first solo album, some on Sweet Insanity, some turned up in movies or on b-sides; and on into the post-Landy years, it seemed that Brian had dozens of songs he was recording. And yet, instead of the world being blessed with these new creations, we got IJWMFTT (fine soundtrack, but if Don Was wanted to show that Brian was still alive and vital, why didn't one or two of the new songs end up in the film/on the album? We got OCA - again, a wonderful album, I wouldn't trade it for anything. By the time we finally got an album of mostly new BW songs, 10 years had passed. So, again, it seems that those days are gone for Brian. He doesn't get many song ideas anymore, in fact, I don't really know what he does with him time when he's not on the road.
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 5, 2021 12:42:09 GMT
So, again, it seems that those days are gone for Brian. He doesn't get many song ideas anymore, in fact, I don't really know what he does with him time when he's not on the road. According to his autobiography, various interviews, stories written about him, and the documentary, he likes to sit in his chair to watch TV; he used to like to go for a walk in the park/neighborhood (though as his mobility seems diminished, I assume that's out); and he goes for lunch to the deli a lot.
And that may explain why he prefers to tour. Sheriff John Stone puts socialization as his guess at the #1 reason; I think that's probably close to true. My own guesses as to the main reason he chooses to tour would be something like maintaining a feeling of self-worth through productive activity, socialization/camaraderie, enjoying the music and reactions, money.
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Post by bellesofparisstan on Dec 5, 2021 18:37:58 GMT
The Wilson Paley sessions were indeed self-funded I believe
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 5, 2021 19:00:57 GMT
The Wilson Paley sessions were indeed self-funded I believe I think that seems most likely. I don't know, but considering they weren't necessarily destined for either a solo album or a Beach Boys album, and I don't think he had a record deal at the time--not to mention the sort of "hey, let's record" spirit of it all--it doesn't seem like any label-funded project.
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Post by lonelysummer on Dec 5, 2021 20:30:33 GMT
The Wilson Paley sessions were indeed self-funded I believe I think that seems most likely. I don't know, but considering they weren't necessarily destined for either a solo album or a Beach Boys album, and I don't think he had a record deal at the time--not to mention the sort of "hey, let's record" spirit of it all--it doesn't seem like any label-funded project. And that's got to get expensive after awhile.
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 5, 2021 20:36:30 GMT
Sure. But it's not as if Brian Wilson was a poor man.
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Post by lonelysummer on Dec 6, 2021 6:08:20 GMT
Sure. But it's not as if Brian Wilson was a poor man. Something has changed since the 80's regarding the cost of recording. Back then, I would regularly read about some well known artist - for example, Gordon Lightfoot - whose latest album failed to make the top 50, and as a consequence, so and so is "taking a financial bath". Now, I doubt that Lightfoot is an artist who spends hundreds of thousands in the studio when he's recording; but this is the kind of story I kept reading. or "Dave Davies of the Kinks' latest album was a commercial failure, so it's unlikely another label will want to take a chance on him". Yet these days, classic rock artists seem to have little trouble getting their low selling albums out. I don't see the labels in a panic because Ringo Starr's 355th solo album didn't make the top 10 in Billboard. Maybe someone who understands the business side of things can explain it to me.
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 6, 2021 13:04:10 GMT
Sure. But it's not as if Brian Wilson was a poor man. Something has changed since the 80's regarding the cost of recording. Back then, I would regularly read about some well known artist - for example, Gordon Lightfoot - whose latest album failed to make the top 50, and as a consequence, so and so is "taking a financial bath". Now, I doubt that Lightfoot is an artist who spends hundreds of thousands in the studio when he's recording; but this is the kind of story I kept reading. or "Dave Davies of the Kinks' latest album was a commercial failure, so it's unlikely another label will want to take a chance on him". Yet these days, classic rock artists seem to have little trouble getting their low selling albums out. I don't see the labels in a panic because Ringo Starr's 355th solo album didn't make the top 10 in Billboard. Maybe someone who understands the business side of things can explain it to me. This is something I've heard many legacy artists discuss. I think it's a combination of a few different things.
1. Recording can be done for much cheaper. What used to require the rentals of good-sounding physical facilities, competent technical staff, instruments, amps, outboard gear, and session musicians, now often requires a laptop, some basic software, and a good mic. Even if an artist is going more "old school" in terms of performances, digital recording and editing cuts the time required dramatically. No loading of this or that tape, no physical editing.
2. I think somewhat related, but somewhat independent of that, labels simply had a different approach, especially in the '70s but into (through?) the '80s, too. More bands were more likely to get big budgets for multi week (or multi month) recording sessions. Whether it's because so many of those bands abused that funding for what amounted to label-funded parties (which of course actually then came back out of artists' eventual payments anyway), or because labels realize its simply not necessary or fiscally wise, they simply don't do it anymore--especially for less profitable artists. And this especially applies to the old boutique/luxury studio situations. It meant something altogether different to send someone to stay in the Caribbean, southern France, or a Rocky Mountain resort-studio for a few weeks. If Ringo or Dave Davies expected that, they wouldn't be releasing new albums either (unless it was on their own dime, speaking of which...)
3. Putting out albums doesn't require the support it once did, so many legacy artists who continue to release albums do so on independent or vanity labels, not majors. You used Ringo Starr as an example: his recent albums have been released through a subsidiary of Universal, UMe, that primarily puts out reissues. Before that he had put out music on Koch, CNR, Bellaphon. Others almost literally just self-release.
Many contemporary pop or rock albums are simply done basically at home, with limited professional studio time, and handed to labels as finished products to be released rather than having the long, expensive, somewhat collaborative (or combative) processes that used to be involved. I'd say in summary it's primarily technological, but also financial, changes.
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Post by jk on Jan 24, 2022 14:34:25 GMT
I see there's a Dutch TV documentary tonight on the subject of musicians, age and stopping. It's about Dutch musicians but should make interesting watching all the same...
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Post by lonelysummer on Jan 31, 2022 4:38:37 GMT
Something that puzzles me is when I see people comment that "there shouldn't be a 60th anniversary tour, Brian is not in good shape now like he was for C50". Yet these same people are okay with Brian fronting his own band. I would think it's a lot easier for an ill Brian to blend into the background when the full group is on stage; how many lead vocals did he have to do for C50? Today, he has to do MOST of the lead vocals. Al, for whatever reason, chooses not to sing a lot.
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 31, 2022 12:29:01 GMT
Something that puzzles me is when I see people comment that "there shouldn't be a 60th anniversary tour, Brian is not in good shape now like he was for C50". Yet these same people are okay with Brian fronting his own band. I would think it's a lot easier for an ill Brian to blend into the background when the full group is on stage; how many lead vocals did he have to do for C50? Today, he has to do MOST of the lead vocals. Al, for whatever reason, chooses not to sing a lot. Are they the same people? I don't recall anyone saying there shouldn't be a C60 because of Brian's condition, but that he should tour without the Beach Boys. Seems to me the people who say he shouldn't tour are pretty consistent about it and want him to retire or at least retire from touring.
I don't think Al is choosing much of anything about which songs he does and doesn't sing on tour with Brian. I would assume that he is told which songs he is expected to sing (though I'm sure Brian/Mertens/whoever makes the decisions is open to input from him).
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 31, 2022 12:41:23 GMT
Something that puzzles me is when I see people comment that "there shouldn't be a 60th anniversary tour, Brian is not in good shape now like he was for C50". Yet these same people are okay with Brian fronting his own band. I would think it's a lot easier for an ill Brian to blend into the background when the full group is on stage; how many lead vocals did he have to do for C50? Today, he has to do MOST of the lead vocals. Al, for whatever reason, chooses not to sing a lot. I'm with you and have supported a C60 anniversary tour despite the physical condition(s) of the members. However, I am now concerned about an 80 year-old Brian sitting at the piano and zoning out. He held up pretty well in 2012, but that was ten years ago and, well...
In order to keep Brian active and involved in the show, I also proposed that Brian move around a bit, maybe from the grand piano to an electric piano, to sit on a stool in front of the stage, to standing at a mic for a song or two, and to playing the Fender bass for an obligatory song. However, that was before Brian has become basically...not ambulatory. Now, it would not be possible for Brian to be getting in and out of chairs/stools and walking around the stage without assistance. I'm not sure that's a good idea and Brian probably wouldn't agree with it anyway.
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