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Post by Kapitan on Oct 31, 2021 10:49:09 GMT
Brian's last burst of creativity? I think you could argue the end of TWGMTR into NPP. Yes, a lot of the former was already begun, but how much of it was (basically) done? Regardless, there were at least a few brand new songs. And then he worked on material with Jeff Beck, only some of which have we ever heard. And then he did NPP, which as far as we know is largely new.
It also depends on what a person means by creativity, though: does it have to mean writing new songs? (I would say no.) The Gershwin album is a fine piece of work that Brian was reportedly very invested in. The creative reframing of old standards (and, let's remember, two new songs) isn't exactly chopped liver.
You might even be able to argue he was relatively productive straight through from TLOS to NPP. Not at the breakneck pace of a twentysomething Brian Wilson ... but let's all get real. Nobody could keep up that pace, and nobody ever has. Not Dylan, not McCartney, not Lennon before he died. Nobody maintains that schedule of high quality original work.
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Post by jk on Oct 31, 2021 12:40:50 GMT
I must say something on this subject folks but I have to think about it first (to put things in their correct order).
As for Dennis's solo work, I bumped into this now anonymous post at EH (although I have my suspicions as to its authorship) and thought it too good not to reproduce here:
"Mommy, when I get to heaven will Dennis and Carl be singing the finished version of Holy Man?"
Brings tears to the eyes that does...
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Oct 31, 2021 13:19:43 GMT
I think Dennis Wilson had unfortunate circumstances with his...solo career. First, in the late 60s/early 70s, it wasn't a good idea for a Beach Boy to want to breakaway (no pun intended) and release solo records. Second, I'm not sure the record company would want it either, and not really know how to handle it/him. In Dennis' case, while I don't think the group was intentionally trying to block/keep his songs off the Beach Boys' albums (and I really am tired of reading about it, especially from Dennis fans), at the same time, I don't think they necessarily wanted to compete against him, and I think they probably - like with Brian - wanted his strong(er) songs for Beach Boys' albums.
As far as Dennis is concerned, he is certainly not blameless, but I don't think he knew how to go about it. I mean, look at how Brian was treated, and he was extremely powerful. Dennis didn't have the pull or the clout of a Brian Wilson. Dennis couldn't pull off a solo album in the early 70s, and honestly, I don't know how much he was really trying. And, we can't ignore that either. Dennis' baggage was always there. Dennis was always a very troubled individual. I don't have to spend time reviewing that, but what record company was going to take a chance on Dennis Wilson as a solo artist? He could've even be counted on in his own group. He was a very self-destructive person, and he usually brought chaos to any situation he was in.
However, if Dennis Wilson would've been exposed to the way things are today, yeah, he could've released solo recordings/albums. And I think Dennis would've been successful critically and commercially. I think his solo stuff is that good. It's damn good. I don't know if he would've had hit singles or a Top Ten album, but he would've sold records. He would've had a following more than a cult artist. He had it all. Now, would've it lasted? No...
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 31, 2021 13:27:50 GMT
With Dennis, I don't think there is really any strong evidence of the band trying to keep his songs off albums. More that there were five, six, seven writers in the band at any given time, and all of them wanted their songs on albums. So in that way, sure, anyone would try to keep someone else's songs off for his own benefit. But not just in a pile-on move against one guy, e.g. Dennis. Surely by 1970's songs, it was obvious to them that Dennis was at least equal to the others.
Re Sheriff John Stone's question of Dennis's trying (or not) to have a career, the impression I get from all the various stories, interviews, etc., is strongly in both directions: yes, he was trying; and no, he wasn't trying. He seems very much to have been a person who acted quickly on passion. So he would work ambitiously, and then go do something else. The discipline of following things through to the end may have been an issue even early on. Later obviously issues were compounded by his health.
As for whether he'd have been a major artist today? I don't think so--not in the '00s or beyond, at least not unless he already had reputation. Most of his music hardly screams pop-chart success or arena headliner. It tends to be either dramatic ballads or, in the case of the newly released stuff, interesting experiments. But for someone who lived a rocker's lifestyle, he didn't bring much of a beat to most of his music, and neither were there many anthems. Tough to be especially marketable with his styles of music. I think whether he had begun in the 70s, 80s, or 90s, he would have been primarily a respected cult artist, not a hitmaker or major draw. Had he begun later than that, I'm not sure.
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Post by jk on Oct 31, 2021 14:07:15 GMT
These are the solo albums I like in varying degrees, with their perpetrators listed in alphabetical order. Some I just recall liking on the one or two occasions I heard them and really require no further comment. Any that aren't here either haven't moved me or just don't interest me enough to seek them out. Blondie Chaplin: The Fragile ThreadHigh time it was released! Al Jardine: A Postcard From CaliforniaTime to drag out my ancient review: " A Postcard from California is a very warm, intimate record, more so than I'd expected. It is full of felicitous touches and dabs of instrumental colour -- the guitar on the first track, the baritone sax on 'Honkin'', some great vocal harmonies around the place, Brian in there sounding happy on 'Drivin'', the 'downhomey' take on 'Rhonda'... 'DFTS' is a timeless gem and 'San Simeon' is gorgeous. Unlike the pastel shades of the album's cover, the music itself is rich and colourful. The few non-musical sounds are used to great effect. All the 'old' tracks sound good in their new guise, not better but different... and good. 'Honkin'' sounded lewd on Love You but gets just the right tongue-in-cheek treatment this time round. Alan is in great voice, as are Steve Miller and Crosby and Young (and Glen C). The whole atmosphere is joyous. The only track I still have to come to terms with is the album's closer. Is it just too intimate for my liking? Great chords though and again, those deft instrumental touches. I shall be playing Postcard again very soon and who knows? Maybe that final track will click with me eventually." [Nope -- still out on it] Mike Love: Mike Love, Not WarIncludes my favourite version of "EILWY" David Marks (The Moon): Without Earth/ The MoonCarl Wilson: Carl WilsonSolid album, dodgy closer (that sax!) Like A BrotherThe title track in particular is outstanding Dennis Wilson: Pacific Ocean BlueAnother ancient review: "Sitting back listening to my precious copy of Pacific Ocean Blue I was suddenly struck by the sheer NUMBER of musical styles or moods on board, or, let's say, leanings towards various styles. These include straight rock, symphonic rock, funk, soul, gospel, folk, big band, latin, ballads, even some Madigras-style blowing and a smattering of psychedelia (those bleeps à la 'Reflections' (Supremes), and Dennis's heavily treated voice on one track). "There are of course other things going on that defy classification entirely -- that's just Dennis. No-one asked him to make an album, no Brianesque soul-searching for him. His horizons were wide open, and off he went." Ultimate Bamboo (Dan Addington b**t) The best of the rest, despite the deluxe POB Brian Wilson: Brian WilsonYou need the original release for a sublime mix of "Melt Away" and some bizarre liner notes Sweet InsanityOrange Crate ArtA wonderfully mellow album that stands up to repeated listens by jk Brian Wilson Presents SMiLEFrom an oldish review: "I think I must be the only person on the planet who hadn't heard a bootleg SMiLE mix before BWPS was released. Oh I was acquainted with the tracks included on the GV box set and I'd heard some random SMiLE sessions. But that was all. "For a while after buying it, I was of the unshakeable opinion that 'this was it'. As if Brian had given fans these wonderful songs to do what they liked with but now he was taking them back. They were his again -- and in this order. There was so much of BWPS that I'd never heard before and that was what stole my heart for a while. I rejected the idea of personal SMiLE mixes as being presumptuous and downright disrespectful. After all, Brian had spoken. "But then I started having doubts. The sound was too trebly, and the bootlegs sessions I heard had these booming bass lines that just weren't there in BWPS. Combined with the fact that the first performance as filmed in Beautiful Dreamer seemed more like a circus than a concert. I began cautiously investigating personal SMiLE mixes and found I actually enjoyed them." [And one has served me ever since] That Lucky Old SunI was converted to this recently. It's wonderful what a friendly nudge can do No Pier PressureFrom another oldish review: "It has an early summer feel to it. (I've never understood the vitriol poured on 'Runaway Dancer'.) I really like what I'm hearing -- I have the Deluxe edition -- up to and including 'Saturday Night'. I can do without the closer." So... there you go.
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Post by lonelysummer on Nov 1, 2021 6:10:31 GMT
I had a couple of Smile tapes before we got BWPS. One had Smile on side one, and Landlocked on side two. The other tape was a full 90 minutes of Smile stuff. Both included Can't Wait Too Long/Been Way Too Long. Some songs had the wrong titles. Song for Children was called Holidays. Some stuff went on too long - how many minutes of Roll, Plymouth Rock do I need to hear? But the stuff was good enough to go back to repeatedly. Then we got the 30 minutes of Smile music on the box set. Then Brian and his group played Smile live - someone gave me an audience recording, and it blew me away! Finally, someone had put all the pieces of the puzzle together. Must have been amazing to be in the audience for those shows. Now, though, I never play BWPS. I always go to the Beach Boys version.
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Post by jk on Nov 1, 2021 11:36:44 GMT
I had a couple of Smile tapes before we got BWPS. One had Smile on side one, and Landlocked on side two. The other tape was a full 90 minutes of Smile stuff. Both included Can't Wait Too Long/Been Way Too Long. Some songs had the wrong titles. Song for Children was called Holidays. Some stuff went on too long - how many minutes of Roll, Plymouth Rock do I need to hear? But the stuff was good enough to go back to repeatedly. Then we got the 30 minutes of Smile music on the box set. Then Brian and his group played Smile live - someone gave me an audience recording, and it blew me away! Finally, someone had put all the pieces of the puzzle together. Must have been amazing to be in the audience for those shows. Now, though, I never play BWPS. I always go to the Beach Boys version.I bought the single CD format. I may have played it twice... There's something about the fixed order that bugs me. (Can-of-wormsville. )
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Post by lonelysummer on Nov 1, 2021 20:13:25 GMT
I had a couple of Smile tapes before we got BWPS. One had Smile on side one, and Landlocked on side two. The other tape was a full 90 minutes of Smile stuff. Both included Can't Wait Too Long/Been Way Too Long. Some songs had the wrong titles. Song for Children was called Holidays. Some stuff went on too long - how many minutes of Roll, Plymouth Rock do I need to hear? But the stuff was good enough to go back to repeatedly. Then we got the 30 minutes of Smile music on the box set. Then Brian and his group played Smile live - someone gave me an audience recording, and it blew me away! Finally, someone had put all the pieces of the puzzle together. Must have been amazing to be in the audience for those shows. Now, though, I never play BWPS. I always go to the Beach Boys version.I bought the single CD format. I may have played it twice... There's something about the fixed order that bugs me. (Can-of-wormsville. ) I tried making my own version of Smile at least once, using all the properly released stuff I had - which meant using some Smiley Smile versions. I may have given it to someone.
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 1, 2021 20:46:46 GMT
I think making one's own Smile was a rite of passage for a lot of Beach Boys fans pre-04--especially once the internet and access to CD burning made such a thing easier to do. I know I bought a couple boots (one CD, one vinyl immediately come to mind) and made quite a few. Some of them were just simple, some were trying to edit things with the minimal software I had at the time to do so. The puzzle was certainly part of the fun.
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Post by lonelysummer on Nov 3, 2021 3:37:34 GMT
I think making one's own Smile was a rite of passage for a lot of Beach Boys fans pre-04--especially once the internet and access to CD burning made such a thing easier to do. I know I bought a couple boots (one CD, one vinyl immediately come to mind) and made quite a few. Some of them were just simple, some were trying to edit things with the minimal software I had at the time to do so. The puzzle was certainly part of the fun. I had seen Smile boots many times before I finally bought one in 2003 - on vinyl, oddly, in an anti-vinyl era. I still have it. The cover is a perfect replica; the vinyl itself is not very good.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Nov 3, 2021 12:36:55 GMT
I think making one's own Smile was a rite of passage for a lot of Beach Boys fans pre-04--especially once the internet and access to CD burning made such a thing easier to do. I know I bought a couple boots (one CD, one vinyl immediately come to mind) and made quite a few. Some of them were just simple, some were trying to edit things with the minimal software I had at the time to do so. The puzzle was certainly part of the fun. I had seen Smile boots many times before I finally bought one in 2003 - on vinyl, oddly, in an anti-vinyl era. I still have it. The cover is a perfect replica; the vinyl itself is not very good. I've been making personal SMiLE mixes since the late 1980s (hey, we have a thread somewhere on SMiLE mixes ), and it's been one of the funnest BB experiences of my fandom. After the SMiLE Sessions boxed set came out, several very creative and technically outstanding posters made all kind of special SMiLE mixes that popped up on the Smiley Smile board - and I checked them all out. Eventually, I settled on a mix (well, "settled" isn't exactly the right word, I'm STILL tweaking it) and that SMiLE mix might be my most played Beach Boys' "album" of any of 'em! I never get tired of that material.
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 3, 2021 13:27:13 GMT
The solo career of Al Jardine: has is been a success? Let's track it step by step.
Jardine was forced out of the Beach Boys touring band in the late '90s, after the death of Carl Wilson. He formed what amounted more to his own version of the group than a solo band, with Beach Boys Family and Friends, the Endless Summer Band, Al Jardine of the Beach Boys, etc., playing Beach Boys classics and deep cuts to some acclaim. Lawsuits followed. Eventually they settled. Jardine released one live album, Live in Las Vegas, from this group in 2002.
The first Jardine solo original release I'm aware of is "PT Cruiser," a song reminiscent of "Shut Down," released in 2002 with a band including Bobby Figueroa, Ed Carter, Billy Hinsche, Ritchie Cannata, and Matt and Adam Jardine. It was later included on the Beach Boys Hallmark promotional album Songs From Here & Back (2006).
His one and only solo album was first released in 2010. A Postcard From California included covers of four songs previously released by the Beach Boys, three songs recorded but not released by the Beach Boys, four originals, and a few interludes. It also included guest appearances by Brian Wilson, David Marks, all the Beach Boys (on "Don't Fight the Sea"), members of America, Glen Campbell, David Crosby, Neil Young, Stephen Stills, and Steve Miller. It was re-released with bonus songs in 2012.
Jardine had been touring with Brian Wilson briefly in the 2006-07 range for a Pet Sounds tour, but left to focus on his album (which took a few more years to release). He returned to tour with Wilson after the Beach Boys reunion's conclusion, and has done so ever since.
In addition to touring with Wilson, Jardine began a "storytellers" tour in smaller theaters in 2017, with his son Matt and musician Jeff Ross.
In 2021, he released two new recordings: another version of "Waves of Love" and "Jenny Clover."
Nothing Jardine has released as a solo artist has ever charted.
Has Jardine's solo career been a success? It depends on what you're measuring, but I think one would have to say not really. On one hand, his various live shows, whether with his "alternate Beach Boys" or his storytellers shows, have been very well received. On the other hand, they are bordering on top-flight cover bands, or (to say again) alternate versions of the original band. His voice has held up remarkably for a man his age.
But Jardine isn't a prolific or particularly original songwriter. He seems more comfortable covering material, including his (and his former band's) own, than doing anything truly new. He also is a notorious tinkerer, taking forever to do anything in the studio. From one perspective, a person could say that his solo career really only consists of about half a dozen songs. There just isn't a lot to judge.
One thing I do wonder is, did Jardine ever take steps to begin, or even seriously consider, a solo career prior to being ousted from the Beach Boys touring band? In the mid-to-late '70s, when the band was toxic and Dennis, Mike, and Carl all began or considered solo careers, did Al? Or was he simply a Beach Boy?
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Post by kds on Nov 3, 2021 13:40:11 GMT
I'm not sure if Al ever aspired to be a solo artist. Immediately following his dismissal from The Beach Boys, he formed the Beach Boys Friends and Family Band, and played all BB setlists.
Even his lone solo album is very heavy on BB self covers, and guest appearances from The Beach Boys.
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 3, 2021 13:53:28 GMT
I'll say this: the little original material he has released has at least been mostly good. Rarely or never great, but mostly good.
Original: Postcard From California Drivin San Simeon And I Always Will Jenny Clover PT Cruiser
Semi-Original (as Beach Boys projects he helmed that were not released as such): Don't Fight the Sea Lookin' Down the Coast Waves of Love (versions 1.0 through 2,814.0)
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Post by kds on Nov 3, 2021 13:58:47 GMT
I'll say this: the little original material he has released has at least been mostly good. Rarely or never great, but mostly good.
Original: Postcard From California Drivin San Simeon And I Always Will Jenny Clover PT Cruiser
Semi-Original (as Beach Boys projects he helmed that were not released as such): Don't Fight the Sea Lookin' Down the Coast Waves of Love (versions 1.0 through 2,814.0)
I do like much of his original material. I wonder, should The Beach Boys reunite for 2022, does Al pitch Waves of Love again?
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