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Post by Kapitan on Oct 22, 2021 21:17:22 GMT
I don't think we have a thread for general discussion about the solo careers of the Beach Boys. (Yes, we did review each album in its own thread, but never everything, all in one place.) And if we do, it has apparently been neglected long enough that I've forgotten it, anyway. So here's this.
Maybe because of the Beatles thread, and seeing all the hit albums and singles the ex-Beatles released in the 1970s and early '80s (so far in our review), my head turned to the Beach Boys' solo careers. And more than that, to this question:
Could any Beach Boy's solo career be considered a success?
There are different measures of success, of course, so I think there is room for debate.
Commercially I don't think there is any question that Brian Wilson had the most successful solo career. So far, he has released 11 solo studio albums (if you count both OCA and IJWMFTT), three live albums, and one greatest hits comp. And considering the relative disappointment so many Beach Boys fans seem to have with various of these albums, it is worth noting that eight of them peaked within the Top 100 in the US Billboard charts (the primary one, not AC, or whatever else niche charts), and seven did so in the UK.
Brian Wilson Presents Smile was by far the biggest chart success, at 13 in the US and 7 in the UK. But ... as far as I can tell (using wiki, admittedly), none has gone gold. By comparison, nine of the first 11 Beach Boys albums went gold or better. Wilson has never had a solo single reach the Top 100 on the Billboard Hot 100 chart. (Three reached the Top 100 of the Adult Contemporary chart, and one reached the Top 100 of the US Rock chart.)
And while I hate being a wet blanket over music I often like quite a bit, his album chart success was mostly in an era when album charts pretty clearly don't mean what they used to. No Pier Pressure peaked at 28; That Lucky Old Sun, 21. How many people on the street have ever heard of either? I'd guess not many.
A career is more than chart position and album sales, though. On the positive side, Wilson's solo career has gone far, far better than almost anyone could have expected in terms of live performances. Anyone who ever witnessed him on stage from "Brian's Back" through the mid-90s would be amazed at the regularity of his touring schedule despite sometimes obvious discomfort. (Credit or blame whom you will, but it's a measure of career success.)
Further, he has had pretty strong publicity despite being well past the prime of pop stars. Most of it was around BWPS, and much of it--whether in 1998, 2004, 2008, 2012, or whenever--has been presented as a comeback from his personal demons. But whatever it is, it is. There have been features in mainstream magazines and newspapers; NPR interviews, features and performances; late-night TV appearances; talk show interviews. He has been pretty visible, relatively well promoted.
Of course, it has also been a lot of nostalgia throughout. His most widely lauded solo work was mostly nearly 40 years old. His concerts have been at times almost entirely Beach Boys music--though to be fair he has also toured at least three solo albums in full, and played a fair amount of material from a few other albums at least contemporaneously.
For better and for worse, I think Brian Wilson's solo career can be considered relatively successful. Not wildly successful, by any means, but not an utter failure.
Rather than go on forever in the first post in the thread, I'll leave it at this: no other Beach Boy's solo career can be considered a success on most typical levels of assessment. (A couple, I think, can be argued to some degree on unusual grounds. But I'll save it for future posts.)
What do you think about the Beach Boys' solo careers?
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Post by kds on Oct 23, 2021 1:03:07 GMT
From an artistic standpoint, you can make a case for Dennis. POB is generally more revered by fans and critics than just about every BB album that followed, and pretty much all the non Brian solo albums.
Mike, Carl, and Al's material is just kind of there.
I can be hard on a lot of Brian's solo work, but I do enjoy a lot of it. Also, he's probably more in that Roger Waters or John Fogerty mold where he's spent most of the 21st century relying on his past glories to sell concert tickets (not that there's anything wrong with that, it is what it is).
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Post by lonelysummer on Oct 23, 2021 1:49:10 GMT
Well, the difference is, Brian's people have had him out there, year after year, since 1998, plugging away. Albums turn up at varying intervals, mainly just to have something out there. He puts out an album, maybe plays 2 or 3 songs from it, but mostly it's been Beach Boys Classics from the hit making era. Back in 1998, there was some talk of Brian doing a solo tour - and the impression I got was that this would be Brian playing the songs from his new album, not a Beach Boys show billed as a Brian Wilson concert. You really can't compare Brian's "solo" career with those of the other guys. Dennis did one album, never toured. Carl did two albums, did a couple club tours, and a couple opening for the Doobie Brothers. And one collaboration album that came out after his passing. Al has hitched his solo fortunes to the Brian Wilson Touring Machine, and did put out one album. Mike, of course, does albums under his own name, while touring as the head Beach Boy. So very tough to compare these guys on their own. I will say this: the only solo Beach Boy I ever heard get airplay on mainstream radio was Carl. When his first album came out, one of our local stations was playing "What You Gonna Do About Me" and "Heaven". Later that summer, I heard "Heaven" a few times on other stations. A couple years later, the local AC gave "Givin' You Up" a lot of spins. I was very surprised that the big hit of 1988 was by the Beach Boys, not Brian Wilson. Brian's album got all the hype, while his old bandmates quietly slipped out a little record that somehow got all the way to #1.
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Post by carllove on Oct 23, 2021 5:41:13 GMT
While Brian may have had the most successful, “solo career”, I prefer the solo music of Dennis Wilson to that of Brian Wilson. As much as I love Carl, he would come in third in comparison. The Feel Flows 5 CD set, affirmed my opinion. Those beautiful melodies, if only Dennis had finished more of his songs …. Listening in my car today to “Before”, “Lady” and “Sound of Free” just blew me away. Just so much talent there. I love his stuff with The Beach Boys as well - you already know “Little Bird” is a favorite of mine.
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Post by jk on Oct 23, 2021 10:07:42 GMT
Oooff. I'm going to have to think about this. Back later!
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Oct 23, 2021 11:11:26 GMT
All disappointing, extremely disappointing (more on that later). For now, this is my ranking:
1. Brian Wilson 2. Dennis Wilson 3. Carl Wilson 4. Bruce Johnston 5. Mike Love 6. Al Jardine
I have heard very little of David Marks and Blondie Chaplin's solo work to rank them.
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 23, 2021 11:34:02 GMT
As a few posters have already alluded to, I think you could find some success in Dennis Wilson's solo career--although I don't think you could call it successful overall.
To temper optimism, first one could look at what he actually did as a solo artist. He began his solo career in 1970 with the UK-only release of the single "Sound of Free"/"Lady." (Technically they were released as a duo, Dennis Wilson and Rumbo [Daryl Dragon], but for our purposes and because of how it fits into the narrative, I'm calling it solo.) That single did not chart.
Through the next couple of years, Wilson kept working with Dragon on his solo material. We've had the chance to hear a lot of it over the years as it has been released, including most excitingly in 2021 on Feel Flows. There is no denying a lot of that material is really interesting at worst, and really good at best. But it is also mostly unfinished, and it was all unreleased. He kept working on new material. It kept being unfinished and/or unreleased.
In the mid-70s, Dennis really focused on a solo album. (I've often wondered how much his obvious dislike for 15 Big Ones played into that decision.) The result, Pacific Ocean Blue, is largely praised ... now. Its two singles failed to chart, and the album peaked at #96 during a 12-week run on the charts. Then it fell out of print for the majority of the next three decades, when it was re-released in a deluxe package. It was in this era, the mid 00s, that it really stopped being a "lost classic."
The tour for POB was canceled. Dennis's work on his follow-up (released as part of the aforementioned deluxe POB package) was inconsistent, and--as had been the case with the entirety of his pre-Pacific Ocean Blue efforts in the first half of the '70s--remained unfinished and unreleased.
So in the 10+ years Dennis worked on his solo career, the only tangible fruits were that one album from which neither single charged and which barely, briefly broke the Top 100. If you want to say you can't assess Dennis's solo career because it only included one album, I'd say you absolutely can assess it, in part because it only included one album in more than 10 years of work. In these ways, his solo career was unsuccessful.
But...
There are qualitative measures, and there are quantitative measures. The latter, described above, are sketchy. The former, by many accounts, are of an entirely different character. Its modern reviews are consistently stellar: a perfect 5 stars by Uncut and a perfect 4 from Bloomberg LP; 8.5 (of 10) from Pitchfork; 4.5 (of 5) from Allmusic; 4 (of 5) from Spin and Rolling Stone, and the equivalent 8 (of 10) from PopMatters. (Robert Christgau gave it a picture of a bomb. I don't know what that means, but he's goddamn crazy.)
Other musicians regularly praise the album, as well. Beach Boys fans generally love the album, and many also are fans of the previously unreleased Bambu material, as well.
Where does that leave the solo career of Dennis Wilson? In my assessment, the best grade a person could give it would be "incomplete." How many albums' worth of material did he start, only to end up with just that one album? In the end, that's the deciding factor for me: he had one album in well over 10 years of work, and it didn't perform very well. I personally cannot call that successful. But on an artistic level, it's hard to argue against the success of Pacific Ocean Blue, at least. (I don't like it anywhere near what most fans do, but even so, I wouldn't ever say it is bad.)
So if I rated Brian's solo career relatively successful (if frustrating and spotty), I have to rate Dennis's somewhere between incomplete, frustrating, and generally unsuccessful despite the quality of music on his one album.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Oct 23, 2021 11:41:55 GMT
Excellent post, Kapitan. You summed everything about Dennis' solo career perfectly.
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Post by kds on Oct 23, 2021 13:01:54 GMT
While I've never heard any BB solo songs on FM radio, I have heard a couple of Brian's playing at retail establishments.
I remember hearing Your Imagination several times in the 00s at grocery stores. And I heard Saturday Night playing at a local mall about four years ago. I think I heard his version of Little Saint Nick at one point too.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Oct 23, 2021 15:07:56 GMT
My ranking:
1. Brian Wilson 2. Dennis Wilson 3. Carl Wilson 4. Bruce Johnston 5. Mike Love 6. Al Jardine
6. Al Jardine - What solo career? Al released a live album with some friends - and some good ones at that - but the album and short tour didn't do much. Mike stopped it, all Al had to do was change the name, but instead he chose to go away. The other solo album? A collection of covers, re-recordings, and some bland originals. Al's solo career, like all of the other Beach Boys, was/is disappointing. He had the voice, the health, and the connections to have a nice solo career. For years, Al complained about The Beach Boys either doing too much of the same, or conversely, when Mike did try to do something different, Al didn't approve of that either. Did Al put his money - and his music - where his mouth was? I don't think so. One studio album and a couple of strange singles. And he had this barn/studio on his property to boot! While I haven't seen any of Al's recent unplugged/storytelling/small intimate concerts, they don't exactly excite me. When Brian eventually calls it a day, Al may get another chance to do a real tour with his own band.
5. Mike Love - I find Mike's solo albums to be...not so good. None of them. He didn't/doesn't have a versatile enough voice to carry a solo album. Also, Mike rarely took the time to step away from his Beach Boys to tour as Mike Love. Simply, Mike Love is not a solo artist. He released his first solo album in 1981, then went 36 years until his next. What does that tell you. And, when he did return as a solo artist, his voice was way past his prime, songwriting-wise he really didn't have much to offer musically, and lyrically he became this hippy-like, granddaddy preacher of peace and love. Stick to the Beach Boys, Mike.
4. Bruce Johnston - I moved Bruce ahead of Mike and Al for one reason, or specifically, one song - "I Write The Songs". Bruce wrote it and it was a huge success. That alone - a single success - is something that eluded Mike and Al in their solo careers. Brian talked about offering a song to Frank Sinatra. Well, Frank Sinatra actually RECORDED one of Bruce's songs. Did I mention that "I Write The Songs" was Barry Manilow's biggest hit? Credit has to be given. Now, Bruce didn't do a damn thing otherwise as a solo performer which is so perplexing. Oh, and the less said about Surfers' Pajama Party, Surfin' Round The World, and Going Public the better. Jeez, what is it with these Beached Boys when they go solo?
3. Carl Wilson - When Carl left The Beach Boys to briefly go solo, he talked a good game. Sadly, he didn't really deliver. Carl talked a lot about "stepping outside The Beach Boys" and rocking a little and getting some music off his chest, and with his first solo anyway, he did nothing of that. Bland and boring. Youngblood was a big improvement. I like Youngblood. It's a good album. Carl did do some different music styles on that album that had nothing to do with The Beach Boys. I thought Youngblood deserved better. Carl did a few shows to promote his solo albums and that was that. I often wonder if Carl took that hard. Was he humbled? Did he then feel differently about things going forward? Did it change his perspective on his music...career?
2. Dennis Wilson - I am ranking Dennis Wilson as high as I am for one reason - Pacific Ocean Blue. It is the best solo album of any Beach Boy. Period. Dennis put his money where his mouth was. He wanted to step out, step away, do HIS music, and he didn't care about the shadow of The Beach Boys' great music hanging over him. He did it and it was successful. He laid it - his guts - out there for everybody to experience. He shocked a lot of people. I personally think that at that specific moment in time - 1976-77 - Dennis was "ahead" of Brian musically. I couldn't hear Brian producing music as expansive as the music on Pacific Ocean Blue. Sadly, because of one reason - health (emotional and physical) - Dennis Wilson could not have a solo career. He was unable to pull it off, and there was nobody around (like Brian later had) to do it for him.
1. Brian Wilson - Brian easily had the most successful solo career of any of The Beach Boys. However, I base that just as much on quantity as I do quality. On the other hand, Brian might've had the most disappointing solo career, too. Brian had farther to fall. It's been so long since Brian Wilson wrote, produced, or performed anything great that fans sometimes forget just how highly-rated Brian was - he might be considered the greatest composer of the rock era. Then look at his his solo releases. He couldn't sniff a hit album (please don't say BWPS), he couldn't get a hit single, and he never really stepped out of his Beach Boys-type music of several decades prior. Not many artists/musicians/performers have fallen further quality-wise. As a live performer, I give Brian more credit for actually showing up and doing the shows as I do for the quality of the performances. Honestly, I never expected him to pull it off, and for decades at that. Yeah, they made it easy for him with the karaoke-like setup, with the the band members being the real stars, and 99% Beach Boys/non-solo music being performed. But, Brian did it, and no other solo Beach Boy did. I did want to note something positive. I do give Brian credit for actually improving his vocals over time. I also never thought I would see or hear the day again when Brian Wilson would turn in vocal performances like he did on Reimagines Gershwin, In The Key Of Disney, and No Pier Pressure.
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Post by B.E. on Oct 23, 2021 15:16:52 GMT
Al Jardine - What solo career?
That got me thinking...he's probably released more solo songs and performed more solo shows than Carl, Dennis, and Bruce (if we aren't counting his early '60s/pre-Beach Boys albums).
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 23, 2021 15:39:08 GMT
Al Jardine - What solo career?
That got me thinking...he's probably released more solo songs and performed more solo shows than Carl, Dennis, and Bruce (if we aren't counting his early '60s/pre-Beach Boys albums). Released more solo songs: not if you only count non-Beach Boys songs! Much of what he has released--whether the live album or the remakes on his real solo album--were of course Beach Boys tunes.
More shows, no question. He toured both back in the 90s and a few legs of his storytellers tours. But again, they're just Beach Boys tribute shows really. I think he did the title track "Postcard From California" when I saw him live before the pandemic--maybe, I'm not sure.
So for me it's hard to consider most of what he has done as a solo career at all. If Brian catches hell for being too Beach Boys focused in his solo work, Al is far, far guiltier.
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 23, 2021 16:52:22 GMT
Beloved singer and bandleader for the Beach Boys, while he had numerous credits throughout the '70s singing and playing for, and producing other artists on their work, Carl Wilson finally became sufficiently frustrated with the Beach Boys to launch a solo career in the '80s. That career spanned two albums, both released during a dry spell in terms of the Beach Boys recording and releasing new music.
Carl Wilson, released in March 1981, charted: it peaked at #185 on the Billboard charts. Its second single, "Heaven" (backed with "Hurry Love," which was also the B-side to the first single, "Hold Me"), charted at #107. The first single did not chart. In spring and summer 1981, Wilson first did a club tour and later supported the Doobie Brothers on their summer tour.
Youngblood, released in February 1983, did not chart. However, its first single, "What You Do To Me" (backed with "Time"), did reach #72.
Carl Wilson never left the Beach Boys, though he did do a little more work outside the band on music that became Beckley-Lamm-Wilson's Like a Brother, released in 2000 after Wilson had died. It did not chart.
Commercially, Carl had more success than did Dennis. However, it wasn't a high bar to clear, and it would be fair to say his solo career wasn't impressive for a Beach Boy--arguably the best singing and most instrumentally talented Beach Boy, at that.
Artistically? Carl's output is not generally regarded anywhere near as highly as Dennis's work. He had spoken about wanting a raw, rock and roll sound, but what he ended up releasing was a relatively slick, almost adult contemporary version of rock and roll. The music isn't an embarrassment, but neither is it a triumph.
The biggest success of the period may have been personal: Carl Wilson was unhappy with the band he'd been a part of his entire adult life, and this couple-year project gave him some space and independence. He spoke very fondly of it during his life.
But can the public consider Carl Wilson's solo career successful? I would have to say no.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Oct 23, 2021 17:48:29 GMT
Beloved singer and bandleader for the Beach Boys, while he had numerous credits throughout the '70s singing and playing for, and producing other artists on their work, Carl Wilson finally became sufficiently frustrated with the Beach Boys to launch a solo career in the '80s. That career spanned two albums, both released during a dry spell in terms of the Beach Boys recording and releasing new music.
Carl Wilson, released in March 1981, charted: it peaked at #185 on the Billboard charts. Its second single, "Heaven" (backed with "Hurry Love," which was also the B-side to the first single, "Hold Me"), charted at #107. The first single did not chart. In spring and summer 1981, Wilson first did a club tour and later supported the Doobie Brothers on their summer tour.
Youngblood, released in February 1983, did not chart. However, its first single, "What You Do To Me" (backed with "Time"), did reach #72.
Carl Wilson never left the Beach Boys, though he did do a little more work outside the band on music that became Beckley-Lamm-Wilson's Like a Brother, released in 2000 after Wilson had died. It did not chart.
Commercially, Carl had more success than did Dennis. However, it wasn't a high bar to clear, and it would be fair to say his solo career wasn't impressive for a Beach Boy--arguably the best singing and most instrumentally talented Beach Boy, at that.
Artistically? Carl's output is not generally regarded anywhere near as highly as Dennis's work. He had spoken about wanting a raw, rock and roll sound, but what he ended up releasing was a relatively slick, almost adult contemporary version of rock and roll. The music isn't an embarrassment, but neither is it a triumph.
The biggest success of the period may have been personal: Carl Wilson was unhappy with the band he'd been a part of his entire adult life, and this couple-year project gave him some space and independence. He spoke very fondly of it during his life.
But can the public consider Carl Wilson's solo career successful? I would have to say no.
I know it's semantics, but I always considered Carl as, in fact, leaving the band as opposed to just taking a break. Maybe it's because of the visions I have of those concerts/the band without him; I attended one of them in 1981 . I wonder how many actual months he was gone from the group? I guess everybody thought he would eventually return anyway.
Yeah, considering Carl had extensive producing experience, was an accomplished musician, and as you mentioned, was at that time the best singer in the group, the expectations were higher than any Beach Boy other than Brian.
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 23, 2021 18:13:53 GMT
The point about "never left the Beach Boys" is fair. I guess I am a little murky on the precise facts there, but while he wasn't present, I'd say this: he never gave up his ownership rights as part of the band. At least not that I've ever heard. Yes, he left, but it doesn't seem to me he REALLY left. He missed some shows while they were doing nothing but shows.
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