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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Oct 23, 2021 21:39:47 GMT
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Post by kds on Oct 24, 2021 1:07:03 GMT
I think one of the things that really hurt Brian's chances of having a commercially successful solo career was how late it started. He'd been in the business for 26 years by the time his solo debut was released. And by then, it had been over a decade since Brian really did anything great.
Most artists who left prominent bands to have success as solo artists - all four Beatles, Rod Stweart, Clapton, Ozzy Osbourne, Sting to name a few - made their solo debuts fairly young.
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Post by lonelysummer on Oct 24, 2021 6:18:05 GMT
I think one of the things that really hurt Brian's chances of having a commercially successful solo career was how late it started. He'd been in the business for 26 years by the time his solo debut was released. And by then, it had been over a decade since Brian really did anything great. Most artists who left prominent bands to have success as solo artists - all four Beatles, Rod Stweart, Clapton, Ozzy Osbourne, Sting to name a few - made their solo debuts fairly young. Right. Although his solo career may have taken off if they'd followed through with a tour back in 1988 (as talked about in some BB's fanzines). Sire/Reprise sure pulled out all the fireworks to promote his solo debut. All the major and minor music magazines had features on Brian that summer. The reviews of the album were mostly raves (Rolling Stone gave it four stars and called it the best Beach Boys album since Sunflower). Of course, no one could ignore the pink elephant in the room - Dr. Eugene Landy. Too much of the time, the press talked more about their weird relationship than about the album. In the end, the album peaked at something like #50 - about the same as The Beach Boys 1985 album. And then Brian was brought back to the Beach Boys to coast on the success of Kokomo, and contribute a song to Still Cruisin'.Sweet Insanity wasn't released, so instead of a couple years between albums, it was a full seven years before we got I Just Wasn't Made For These Times and Orange Crate Art. To my knowledge, Carl was the only Beach Boy to do a solo tour of his solo music. The first tour, the only BB song he played was Long Promised Road. Carl and Myrna wrote a song to open the shows with, Too Early to Tell, and they covered Sam and Dave's I Thank You. All the other songs in the show were from the solo album. Later on, he added Darlin' to the set list. Likewise, when he did a few shows in 1983 to promote Youngblood, the majority of songs were from the two albums.
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Post by kds on Oct 24, 2021 11:42:40 GMT
Its possible that a tour could've been a boost for BW88.
In a way, BW88 was a soft open to Brian's solo career since he was still in The Beach Boys.
So, the start of his career as a full time solo artist really wouldn't be for another ten years.
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 24, 2021 12:15:19 GMT
I wonder whether a Landy-era tour would have helped Brian. I doubt it: however awkward he looks mostly inactive behind his piano-shelled keyboard, he looked worse to me standing, swaying, "dancing" or whatever you want to call it in those live performances at that time. He's not a good frontman, and either never was, or hasn't been for a very, very long time.
Press ended up being very generous toward him in the late 90s and beyond. A top-notch band nailing every detail of complex, brilliant songs backing an aging and obviously unwell man. Would they have been so generous in '88, with the likes of this?
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Oct 24, 2021 12:25:23 GMT
I always thought Brian's lack of success (at least commercial success) as a solo artist had more to do with two things - his singing voice and the lack of great songs. I distinctly remember listening to Brian Wilson 1988 and trying to imagine hearing his voice or one of those songs on the radio - and, honestly, I couldn't. I suppose you could pick a song or two from his 35 year solo career that coulda/shoulda/woulda been a successful single, but there aren't many. As kds noted, there were/are a few songs that you still hear at the grocery store or mall.
I don't think it was because of a lack of touring or promotion. EVERY Brian Wilson solo album got sufficient press coverage (the genius and sympathy factor was always there), and while it seems hard to believe, I think you could say that Brian was consistently on the road, to some extent anyway. At the risk of beating a dead horse, Brian's lack of commercial success with his albums and especially singles is note-worthy. Even the albums that did chart fairly high only stayed there for a week or so and then quickly went off the charts. I checked his discography on wikipedia and, actually, he really didn't release a lot of solo singles over the years.
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Post by lonelysummer on Oct 24, 2021 20:10:59 GMT
I always thought Brian's lack of success (at least commercial success) as a solo artist had more to do with two things - his singing voice and the lack of great songs. I distinctly remember listening to Brian Wilson 1988 and trying to imagine hearing his voice or one of those songs on the radio - and, honestly, I couldn't. I suppose you could pick a song or two from his 35 year solo career that coulda/shoulda/woulda been a successful single, but there aren't many. As kds noted, there were/are a few songs that you still hear at the grocery store or mall.
I don't think it was because of a lack of touring or promotion. EVERY Brian Wilson solo album got sufficient press coverage (the genius and sympathy factor was always there), and while it seems hard to believe, I think you could say that Brian was consistently on the road, to some extent anyway. At the risk of beating a dead horse, Brian's lack of commercial success with his albums and especially singles is note-worthy. Even the albums that did chart fairly high only stayed there for a week or so and then quickly went off the charts. I checked his discography on wikipedia and, actually, he really didn't release a lot of solo singles over the years.
IIRC, Love and Mercy was released as a single the same week as Kokomo. There was no mistaking for me which one sounded like a hit. I do recall hearing Your Imagination on the in-store music system at some stores a few times. I think it was on the Adult Contemporary chart. That might be the only one of Brian's singles to chart anywhere (excepting Caroline, No). It's worth noting that Carl had two top twenty hits on the AC chart - Heaven and What You Do to Me. AC play doesn't seen to translate to large sales, though. Several of the Beach Boys singles were top twenty AC hits in the 80's - The Beach Boys Medley, Getcha Back, It's Gettin' Late, California Dreamin', Kokomo, and Still Cruisin'.
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 24, 2021 20:23:22 GMT
IIRC, Love and Mercy was released as a single the same week as Kokomo. Almost, but not quite. "Love and Mercy" was released one week before "Kokomo," July 11 versus 18 of 1988. And yeah, reception of the two was not similar. I was 12, and I remember "Kokomo" being everywhere: MTV, radio, etc. I literally never heard "Love and Mercy" until I became a Brian Wilson fan over 10 years later and bought the 2000 CD reissue. I'm not talking about Beach Boys or Brian Wilson fans, but if you were just a passive music fan at the time, I'd guess you'd have a similar experience.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Oct 25, 2021 23:31:17 GMT
I always thought Brian's lack of success (at least commercial success) as a solo artist had more to do with two things - his singing voice and the lack of great songs. I distinctly remember listening to Brian Wilson 1988 and trying to imagine hearing his voice or one of those songs on the radio - and, honestly, I couldn't. I suppose you could pick a song or two from his 35 year solo career that coulda/shoulda/woulda been a successful single, but there aren't many. As kds noted, there were/are a few songs that you still hear at the grocery store or mall.
I don't think it was because of a lack of touring or promotion. EVERY Brian Wilson solo album got sufficient press coverage (the genius and sympathy factor was always there), and while it seems hard to believe, I think you could say that Brian was consistently on the road, to some extent anyway. At the risk of beating a dead horse, Brian's lack of commercial success with his albums and especially singles is note-worthy. Even the albums that did chart fairly high only stayed there for a week or so and then quickly went off the charts. I checked his discography on wikipedia and, actually, he really didn't release a lot of solo singles over the years.
IIRC, Love and Mercy was released as a single the same week as Kokomo. There was no mistaking for me which one sounded like a hit. I do recall hearing Your Imagination on the in-store music system at some stores a few times. I think it was on the Adult Contemporary chart. That might be the only one of Brian's singles to chart anywhere (excepting Caroline, No). It's worth noting that Carl had two top twenty hits on the AC chart - Heaven and What You Do to Me. AC play doesn't seen to translate to large sales, though. Several of the Beach Boys singles were top twenty AC hits in the 80's - The Beach Boys Medley, Getcha Back, It's Gettin' Late, California Dreamin', Kokomo, and Still Cruisin'. I think at times Beach Boys' fans either overlook or do not give enough credit to the power and attractiveness (is that a word?) of the individual Beach Boys' vocals. Good vocals. Great vocals. Look at the specific vocals - both lead and background - on those 80's singles you listed above. They are all well sung. Music fans simply love(d) to hear Mike Love, Carl Wilson, and to some extent, Al Jardine sing ON THE RADIO. Now, think about Brian Wilson's post-1985 vocals - both lead and stack o' Brians - on his solo records. It just isn't as appealing. To some it might even be off-putting. I'm just sayin'...
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Post by lonelysummer on Oct 26, 2021 4:47:55 GMT
IIRC, Love and Mercy was released as a single the same week as Kokomo. There was no mistaking for me which one sounded like a hit. I do recall hearing Your Imagination on the in-store music system at some stores a few times. I think it was on the Adult Contemporary chart. That might be the only one of Brian's singles to chart anywhere (excepting Caroline, No). It's worth noting that Carl had two top twenty hits on the AC chart - Heaven and What You Do to Me. AC play doesn't seen to translate to large sales, though. Several of the Beach Boys singles were top twenty AC hits in the 80's - The Beach Boys Medley, Getcha Back, It's Gettin' Late, California Dreamin', Kokomo, and Still Cruisin'. I think at times Beach Boys' fans either overlook or do not give enough credit to the power and attractiveness (is that a word?) of the individual Beach Boys' vocals. Good vocals. Great vocals. Look at the specific vocals - both lead and background - on those 80's singles you listed above. They are all well sung. Music fans simply love(d) to hear Mike Love, Carl Wilson, and to some extent, Al Jardine sing ON THE RADIO. Now, think about Brian Wilson's post-1985 vocals - both lead and stack o' Brians - on his solo records. It just isn't as appealing. To some it might even be off-putting. I'm just sayin'... Yes, I've had several people tell me over the years "that guy can't sing anymore". Brian's mature voice is an acquired taste. I still wonder sometimes how Melt Away, There's So Many, Meet Me in My Dreams Tonight, or Rio Grande would have sounded with the other Beach Boys' voices on them.
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 26, 2021 18:41:29 GMT
Mike Love's solo career has perhaps surprisingly--considering the extensive touring he still does with the Beach Boys--been the most active of the band in recent years, with three solo albums since 2017. So has it been successful?
To go back to its origins, you might want to go to 1981, the year of his first solo album. But some might think his work with Celebration qualifies. That near-Beach Boys side project (featuring not just Love on vocals, but associated musicians Ron Altbach, Charles Lloyd, Mike Kowalski, Ed Carter, and Gary Griffin on the first album). Their 1978 debut included a real, bona fide hit: "Almost Summer," written by Love, Brian Wilson, and Al Jardine. The group released two more albums, neither of which had any success.
Then there are two proper solo Love records from that same year, 1978, First Love and Country Love. The problem is, neither of those saw release. (Several of the songs turned up on later Love albums.) In 1981, Looking Back With Love was released. Rolling Stone was a bit harsh, saying it was "notable only for its title track: an egregious 'salute' to those crazy ol' '60s that would probably make a dandy Republican campaign jingle." That said, it was indeed a failure.
At long last and after some false starts--Mike Love, Not War, anyone?--Love returned with Unleash the Love in 2017. It comprised two discs, with one touted as originals and one as Beach Boys covers. Of course, the originals included two songs previously released as Beach Boys numbers, but who's counting? Numerous of the others were previously recorded, and in some cases, released as well. While it charted on the Billboard Independent Albums chart, it would be tough to call it a success.
The next year Love released Reason For The Season, a Christmas album featuring a combination of originals, traditionals, and covers. It was again a success on minor charts--again the Independent Albums chart and the Billboard holiday charts--but did not set the world on fire.
Less than a year later, in 2019, Love released 12 Sides of Summer. Another themed album of covers (self- and otherwise), it was ... well, another themed album of covers. Dedicated to summer. Get it?
Commercially, despite some possibly misleading chart placements--let's not conflate the Hot 100 with the Independent Albums chart, both Billboard or otherwise--Love has not had a successful solo career. (He also has about as many unreleased solo albums as released ones. On the other hand, they all have the same damn songs on them anyway.)
Artistically?
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Post by kds on Oct 26, 2021 20:12:01 GMT
I have to wonder how many copies of Mike's recent albums sit unopened in basements and attics of fans who got them for free for buying tickets to M&B Beach Boys concerts.
I know I gave a copy of Reason For the Season to my father (I got two copies for the pair of tickets I bought to a Dec 2018 show), and I'm fairly certain he's never listened to it.
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Post by carllove on Oct 31, 2021 0:27:34 GMT
Listening to the Dennis stuff from Feel Flows again tonight by the fire and I am still struck by how much potential was there. Why was “Sound of Free/Lady” not a success? (Then again Sunflower wasn’t - so maybe not a surprise?) “Before” is one of the best things I have ever heard even though it’s really not finished. “All of My Love/Ecology” is divine. “Old Movie/Cuddle Up” is beautiful without lyrics. His early 70’s stuff is lovely. I just don’t get it. The melodies are as nice as anything The Beach Boys produced in that era. To think that he never realized that before he died is just heartbreaking to me. It sounds contemporary to me now. Was it too soon? If he was still alive, would he be a big solo artist today, or has rap and pop taken over the airwaves too much? I can see those songs doing well in the mid 90’s, when rock was still relevant. Then again, maybe I’m just an old lady just stuck in the 70’s.
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Post by lonelysummer on Oct 31, 2021 5:22:18 GMT
Listening to the Dennis stuff from Feel Flows again tonight by the fire and I am still struck by how much potential was there. Why was “Sound of Free/Lady” not a success? (Then again Sunflower wasn’t - so maybe not a surprise?) “Before” is one of the best things I have ever heard even though it’s really not finished. “All of My Love/Ecology” is divine. “Old Movie/Cuddle Up” is beautiful without lyrics. His early 70’s stuff is lovely. I just don’t get it. The melodies are as nice as anything The Beach Boys produced in that era. To think that he never realized that before he died is just heartbreaking to me. It sounds contemporary to me now. Was it too soon? If he was still alive, would he be a big solo artist today, or has rap and pop taken over the airwaves too much? I can see those songs doing well in the mid 90’s, when rock was still relevant. Then again, maybe I’m just an old lady just stuck in the 70’s. I've long felt that Dennis Wilson, solo artist, is a bit overrated. I suppose context is everything - while the Beach Boys were cranking out Love You and MIU, Dennis was giving us Pacific Ocean Blue. I do like Dennis' early 70's stuff quite a bit, though. Surf's Up would have been a better album if it included a couple of his songs. The thought I was pondering today, though was, what was Brian's last big blast of creativity? He was pretty active, songwriting, and recording, during the Landy years. Then when Landy is gone, Brian does a bunch of recording with Andy Paley. Paley seems to be pushed aside in favor of Joe Thomas, and again, there's dozens of songs being written and (sometimes) recorded. We found out just how much they had written when TWGMTR came out. And since then, what's there been? TLOS...and what else? I know we always hope for more great new material from Brian and his collaborators, but these days, I figure we've heard the last of the BW brilliance. And I'm fine with that. The man is nearly 80 years old. But again, it puts the question in perspective, was Brian's solo career a success or a failure? By far, the most acclaimed solo recording of his was made up of songs originally written and recorded in 1966/67.
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Post by carllove on Oct 31, 2021 5:49:55 GMT
Wow lonelysummer - you just blew my mind and I’m going to have to think that one over! Great Question!
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