|
Post by Kapitan on Aug 16, 2021 11:23:12 GMT
When the Beach Boys released “Cool, Cool Water” in March 1971, they had been promoting music from their 1970 album Sunflower for more than a year. The promotional efforts did not work: the album, and its singles, were flops.
The main claim to fame for “Cool, Cool Water” is that it stems from the Smile sessions’ “I Love to Say Dada.” It retains its vibe, but was never developed into a more traditional song despite the addition of some lyrics.
The B-side has come to greater acclaim. “Forever,” the ballad for which Dennis Wilson is probably best known, has found its way onto greatest hits collections and seen remakes. However popular Jesse & the Rippers may be, that was not the response in early 1971. As was the case with the A-side, “Forever” did not chart.
The single was the third consecutive to fail to reach either the U.S. or U.K. charts and the sixth to fail to chart higher than #63 in America.
Please discuss and rate “Cool, Cool Water” backed with “Forever.”
|
|
|
Post by Sheriff John Stone on Aug 16, 2021 12:13:39 GMT
I feel like I've had this discussion before, just with different song titles.
"Cool Cool Water" is a nice song. It has good vocals. I think the lyrics are terrible. "Cool Cool Water" is overrated; it's slightly boring. It never should've been a single. Actually, it would've made a perfect B-side...earlier on. The "Water Chant" portion is one of my favorite BB moments; so psychedelic; only Brian Wilson could compose something like that.
I think "Forever" is a great song; one of Dennis Wilson's best. I would've made it an A-side and released it as the first or second single. Did they NOT want to highlight Dennis "all the way", relegating him to B-sides? Anyway, nice intro, great vocal, effective lyrics, cool tag. If "Forever" would've had a BW credit, well, you know...
We are to rank these singles as...singles. That's what I did with "Tears In The Morning"/"It's About Time". I looked at it more as a single (a clunker) than individual songs ("It's About Time" was a better song than my 4 ranking). Same with this single. First, it never should've been released as a single. Too late. Cut your losses. Move on. Second, like most of these 1970 singles, they chose the wrong A-side and B-side. Really, The Beach Boys and Reprise didn't know what they were doing. Incompetent decisions. Yeah, these were two nice BB songs, but who in the heck was gonna buy it? A 6, based on the strength of the B-side, and that tells the real story.
|
|
|
Post by kds on Aug 16, 2021 12:23:25 GMT
Of all the tracks on Sunflower, Cool Cool Water is one that just never really landed with me.
And, the single version is without the vocal intro, which is IMO the only really compelling part of the song. I think the remaining three minutes or so just kind of plod along. It's not terrible, but I never understand the high praise it gets. And, even if the song were up my alley, there's no way it was going to light up the charts.
The B side here is the far superior song, and rather the only reason I'm giving this as high a mark as I am. A six.
|
|
|
Post by The Cincinnati Kid on Aug 16, 2021 13:40:43 GMT
I love Cool Cool Water, but it's not really single material, particularly in 1971. Maybe in 1967 or 1968 in could have made it to radio, but even then I have my doubts. Forever is of course a great song, but it almost feels out of it's time, too. I'll go with a six.
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Aug 16, 2021 14:41:15 GMT
I'm going to give these a few listens before rating them (though obviously as with all of the Beach Boys items to be rated, I've heard them a bazillion times over the years). But I can't imagine my rating being all that different from those that have been posted so far: 6ish.
My main disagreement about "Cool Cool Water" is in the merits of the water chant. I don't find that particularly interesting. The song itself, I like what's there just fine. Just fine. Not exactly a glowing compliment. It's pleasant, but it's so lightweight. It's more a mood, a vibe, than a song. I wish it had been tightened up, another section incorporated, just made into something a bit more single-like, if it was going to be a single. Otherwise it just belongs near the end of an album, something to let play when you're zoned out.
"Forever" is a little better. I think the original version is overrated by fans and the power ballad one is underrated by fans. But we're talking about the former for the time being. It's a very sweet song and a nice arrangement/recording/production. Relatively subtle, especially for Dennis. I could do without Brian's semi-scat falsetto.
It'll almost certainly be a 6, maybe a 5, unlikely but possibly a 7. Seems unlikely I could go higher or lower.
|
|
Emdeeh
Pacific Coast Highway
Posts: 520
Likes: 532
|
Post by Emdeeh on Aug 16, 2021 14:47:10 GMT
Another split opinion, so no vote. “Forever” gets a big ten from me, without question — Dennis’ masterpiece. “Cool, Cool Water” gets a seven from me, as a standalone song. I like it, it’s fun, with lush vocals.
|
|
|
Post by kds on Aug 16, 2021 15:15:44 GMT
I'm going to give these a few listens before rating them (though obviously as with all of the Beach Boys items to be rated, I've heard them a bazillion times over the years). But I can't imagine my rating being all that different from those that have been posted so far: 6ish.
My main disagreement about "Cool Cool Water" is in the merits of the water chant. I don't find that particularly interesting. The song itself, I like what's there just fine. Just fine. Not exactly a glowing compliment. It's pleasant, but it's so lightweight. It's more a mood, a vibe, than a song. I wish it had been tightened up, another section incorporated, just made into something a bit more single-like, if it was going to be a single. Otherwise it just belongs near the end of an album, something to let play when you're zoned out.
"Forever" is a little better. I think the original version is overrated by fans and the power ballad one is underrated by fans. But we're talking about the former for the time being. It's a very sweet song and a nice arrangement/recording/production. Relatively subtle, especially for Dennis. I could do without Brian's semi-scat falsetto.
It'll almost certainly be a 6, maybe a 5, unlikely but possibly a 7. Seems unlikely I could go higher or lower.
I agree, especially about the 1992 version, but I honestly think a lot of that can be chalked up to the anti Stamos bias. My one gripe about the 1970 version in question here is the ending leaves me feeling like the song is "incomplete."
|
|
|
Post by jk on Aug 16, 2021 20:20:45 GMT
Another split opinion, so no vote. “Forever” gets a big ten from me, without question — Dennis’ masterpiece. “Cool, Cool Water” gets a seven from me, as a standalone song. I like it, it’s fun, with lush vocals. Now that's reassuring. Add to that the fact that I cannot for the life of me equate either of these songs with the "single" format. I was utterly unaware of this 45 at the time. It's hard-hat time again, folks: you see, I have trouble with the Sunflower version of "Forever". It's Brian's over-the-top weazlings that do it -- the rest is absolutely epic. That said, at one point (here at 0:48) it distorts like nobody's business -- now that I like! (I seem to recall SWD saying this was his favourite moment of the entire song.) At the end of the day, I actually prefer the later version featuring John S (as the hail of rotten fruit intensifies). So no vote from me either.
|
|
|
Post by lonelysummer on Aug 16, 2021 20:30:35 GMT
I'm with the consensus here - good songs, but not potential hit singles. Somewhere along the way, the guys forgot how to write hit singles. Not that I really care - I wouldn't trade 4 or 5 hit singles for the whole of Sunflower. I think it's funny when record companies keep cranking out singles for artists that aren't geared towards the singles market. Once in a awhile, some fluke hit comes along, apparently justifying this approach. Columbia kept cranking out Bob Dylan singles in the 70's and yes, once in awhile there would be a surprise hit - Knockin' On Heaven's Door, Hurricane, Gotta Serve Somebody. But who on earth thought the Dylan/Band track Million Dollar Bash was a potential hit? A live version of It Ain't Me Babe? Man Gave Names to all the Animals? Cool, Cool Water is a cool song - but when I want to hear it, I want to hear the full recording. Forever is a classic - I'm actually surprised Uncle Jessie's version WASN'T a hit. Full House was a top show at the time, and girls loved John Stamos. Put it in a picture sleeve with Uncle Jessie holding the Olsen twins, and it would have been a #1 record.
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Aug 18, 2021 13:58:11 GMT
I went with a 6, which is where I was leaning before.
What might differentiate me from some of the other, similar scores is that it's not such a big disparity for me between the songs. I personally don't have the "Forever is a 10, CCW is a 4" sort of thing going on. I think they're both decent, but not amazing, songs. "Forever" is the better one, especially as a single; but I prefer the sound and the vibe of "Cool Cool Water" ... I think. Approximately. Maybe.
They're both decent. Neither is great, neither is awful. I don't hear it as a stellar choice for a single, though. That said, by this point about half the album had been released as singles. So it isn't as if there were a lot left to choose from unless they went to more non-album tracks a la "Susie Cincinnati."
|
|
|
Post by Sheriff John Stone on Aug 19, 2021 0:48:34 GMT
I went with a 6, which is where I was leaning before.
What might differentiate me from some of the other, similar scores is that it's not such a big disparity for me between the songs. I personally don't have the "Forever is a 10, CCW is a 4" sort of thing going on. I think they're both decent, but not amazing, songs. "Forever" is the better one, especially as a single; but I prefer the sound and the vibe of "Cool Cool Water" ... I think. Approximately. Maybe.
They're both decent. Neither is great, neither is awful. I don't hear it as a stellar choice for a single, though. That said, by this point about half the album had been released as singles. So it isn't as if there were a lot left to choose from unless they went to more non-album tracks a la "Susie Cincinnati."
I think "Forever" is a borderline great/great song. I think the intro is fine. Dennis' lead vocal is one of his best; it's sensitive Dennis. He came up with an emotional, rousing bridge, and then the song comes back. I really like the lyrics; they are very relatable to many. And, finally, Brian came out of storage to provide a cool vocal tag. The song has it all. I did like it even before Stamos resurrected it.
|
|
|
Post by lonelysummer on Aug 19, 2021 2:46:58 GMT
I went with a 6, which is where I was leaning before.
What might differentiate me from some of the other, similar scores is that it's not such a big disparity for me between the songs. I personally don't have the "Forever is a 10, CCW is a 4" sort of thing going on. I think they're both decent, but not amazing, songs. "Forever" is the better one, especially as a single; but I prefer the sound and the vibe of "Cool Cool Water" ... I think. Approximately. Maybe.
They're both decent. Neither is great, neither is awful. I don't hear it as a stellar choice for a single, though. That said, by this point about half the album had been released as singles. So it isn't as if there were a lot left to choose from unless they went to more non-album tracks a la "Susie Cincinnati."
I don't know why Warners thought they had to release a bunch of singles from the album. Just promote it to the FM stations playing album tracks. Honestly, the only Beach Boys that could write hit singles were Brian and Mike. I suppose the FM stations looked at the album cover, and the name, and tossed it in the scrap heap. "The bloody Beach Boys? Our audience doesn't want to hear songs about surfboards and girls in string bikinis!" It reminds me of a story about my favorite band out of the Northwest, a group that had a lot of hits in the mid 60's, but were despised by the so called hip people. It's 1969, they're recording some new sounds, and decided to send an acetate of their new stuff to one of the underground stations in northern California, with a different name on the label, Pink Puzz. The station is told that "this is a new group that just getting started". The station plays the record, and gets great response until they're told "that new group is Paul Revere and the Raiders featuring Mark Lindsay". The station drops the record immediately! "We don't play square bands like that!" "But you loved it when you thought it was this new group Pink Puzz!" "&^%$#@*&^%$#@!" Alias Pink Puzz became the title of the Raiders' new album.
|
|
|
Post by Sheriff John Stone on Aug 19, 2021 21:01:24 GMT
- Maybe Reprise released all of those singles to show that they were behind their new signee.
- While I agree that it might've been a good idea to also include the FM stations with their promotion, AM radio was always gonna be The Beach Boys' niche. They would never become an FM radio classic rock act, and certainly not in 1970-71.
- I guess statistics will show that Brian (I'm reluctant to include Mike) was the only Beach Boy who could write hit singles, but I do think Dennis' stuff on 20/20, Sunflower, Carl & The Passions, and Holland was very, very good, and deserved a better fate. Also, during that period, with the exception of "Do It Again", Brian's singles were tanking as much as anybody's. Actually, after that, too, Brian didn't have much success with hit singles either. "Rock And Roll Music", "Come Go With Me", "Getcha Back", and "Kokomo" were not composed by Brian. I won't get into his solo career.
- For your last sentence, I agree, and my second point applies to that, too. The Beach Boys never successfully transitioned from a fun, surf & turf, boy/girl song recording act into a serious, adult-oriented, hit album-producing group. They started to in 1965-66 but fizzled in 1967. They kind of re-started again in 1971 with Surf's Up and 1973 with Holland, but that quickly ended, too. They would always remain a singles band known for their AM radio hits...and one great album.
EDIT: I'm quoting lonelysummer's above post. I lost it and I'll be damned if I can get it back!
|
|
|
Post by carllove on Aug 21, 2021 21:19:58 GMT
I didn’t like “Cool Cool Water” the first few times I heard it. It had to grow on me. Now I actually enjoy it. It is a “mood”. I love the “When the heats got you down” part. Of course the vocals are lovely. It should have been the B side though.
“Forever” is a great song. Beautiful melody and heartfelt lyrics. I love Dennis’s voice on this song. I love the chorus. I wouldn’t change a thing. I think the fact that I’m a woman, who can picture a man like Dennis singing those words to me, helps lift the score as well. I can see some men finding the lyrics cheesy. Nope - they are not! Forever should have been the A side.
So overall - I give the combo an 8.
|
|
|
Post by kds on Aug 22, 2021 0:47:17 GMT
Saturday Night Confession - I've probably said this already. But, the first time I ever heard Forever was on Full House.
|
|