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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Nov 12, 2021 0:00:46 GMT
Didn't something happen with the Smile Sessions box set that pissed off Van Dyke, too?
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Post by kds on Nov 12, 2021 0:59:25 GMT
Didn't something happen with the Smile Sessions box set that pissed off Van Dyke, too? Pissed him off is an easy as throwing something off a boat and hitting water.
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Post by B.E. on Nov 12, 2021 1:04:17 GMT
Didn't something happen with the Smile Sessions box set that pissed off Van Dyke, too? Pissed him off is an easy as throwing something off a boat and hitting water.
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Post by bellesofparisstan on Nov 12, 2021 17:31:10 GMT
I don’t think we will see Joe Thomas and Brian reunite anytime soon. From what I’ve heard, Joe Thomas and Brian, or more likely his management, have a very rocky relationship. Obviously there was the 1998 imagination album, and then right after that, the details are very fuzzy but apparently what happened was Joe Thomas insisted that they had a contract where he would produce several brian Albums, and Brian and his management were unhappy with that, so they sued Joe to get out of that contract. And then when they reunited in 2011, they worked for about three years, until Joe Thomas left in the middle of the NPP sessions, and hasn’t really been brought up since so we can assume it ended poorly. Joe was very involved with the promotion of imagination and That’s Why God Made the Radio. Nothing for NPP, he wasn’t involved in the promotion, he didn’t give any 2015 interviews with Brian, nothing like that. And then pretty much since 2015, Brian‘s management have done everything they can to not bring Joe Thomas up. Even his recent website update had the whole timeline thing with all of the new songs on it, but didn’t mention Joe Thomas once. So just going off of this, we can assume the professional relationship didn’t end under the best circumstances. Given all of that, I highly doubt they would bring Joe Thomas back to force another album out of Brian and the Beach boys. Now personally, a new album is not a good idea in my opinion. Nothing they create today can reach the levels of any of their previous work, and it’s not like any of them have shown any interest in making a new Beach Boys album, even Brian. I really truly think people are underestimating what is in that vault. There is a lot of stuff. I don’t see why, if they’re making a documentary, they can’t make an anthology type compilation to go along with it. And I don’t mean a “Made Inn California” type box, with 90% being just greatest hits that we already owned tons of times over, and a couple new songs scattered here and there. I literally mean like a 3 to 5 disc anthology type compilation, with all previously unreleased or rare material. To start with, there is stuff on compilations that have been out of print for decades that should be put back in circulation. Sea Cruise, I Do, We Got Love, chasing the sky, Land Ahoy, alt let him run wild. All of these songs are stuck in either compilations from the 80s and 90s that are long out of print, 2fers, or random soundtracks. Next, there are alt and vintage mixes that again are either long out of print or have never been released. Good Time 1970 mix, friends alt vocal, R&R music single mix, Come Go With Me early mix, etc. even some vintage Smile track assemblies that are somehow still unreleased. Then there are session highlights and instrumentals/a cappella‘s that haven’t been explored. Thinking of most of today and summer days and nights, or Smiley Smile, etc. And then of course, there’s the tons and tons of just completely unreleased songs that range from finished (Marilyn Rovell, Stevie, cary me home, it’s trying to say), to Close to finished with scratch vocals (beginning of the end, I’m begging you please, River deep Mountain high), to just rough instrumentals (sandy, Life symphony, Carl’s song, Brian‘s sports instrumentals basketball rock and bowling.) Personally, I would find this way more interesting than a new album or a new tour.
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 12, 2021 18:14:18 GMT
On the Joe Thomas stuff, I agree mostly. The one thing I'd say is, if you'd asked most people in the early '00s whether Brian and Joe would ever work together again--while there were lawsuits and countersuits--I think it would have been a resounding no. And of course it happened, presumably initially because Thomas had those old demos/tracks that they wanted to dust off. Of course he became more intimately involved again from there for a little while. But my point is, with this band it feels like however unworkable things become, sometimes they come back around anyway.
As for the box of mostly unreleased stuff, I think that would be spectacular, but the question is whether it would be (or whether Iconic/the band thinks it would be) commercially viable to fill disc after disc with the likes of Adult/Child stuff, "Stevie," "Carry Me Home," and the various other still-unreleased stuff instead of the hits--though admittedly these are hits we've been sold and re-sold for decades.
It's safe to say the band actually doesn't want some of that stuff released, considering they've passed it over time after time now (and in some cases it's not especially flattering). But my understanding is Iconic has the final say on such things now, so maybe.
I'm of mixed opinion on new recordings. I wasn't excited for TWGMTR, really, but it by far exceeded expectations. And as I've said already here, I am very very skeptical they would come up with another good new album. But there's that little part of me that wants it anyway, just in case I'm wrong.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Nov 12, 2021 21:20:33 GMT
I don’t think we will see Joe Thomas and Brian reunite anytime soon. From what I’ve heard, Joe Thomas and Brian, or more likely his management, have a very rocky relationship. Do you know why? Care to speculate?
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Post by lonelysummer on Nov 13, 2021 3:19:48 GMT
Personally, I don't see the need for a huge 60th anniversary box. And I doubt that there is tons of great stuff still in the vault waiting to be released. The one period still ripe for rediscovery is the CATP/Holland/In Concert period. I don't know exactly what is in the vaults from that time, but I assume it's similar to the Sunflower/Surf's Up era. Feel Flows is a godsend. I'm hopeful that we get the Sail on Sailor box; I think that's the way to approach these things now; one or two albums at a time. Forget the career spanning stuff. The 60's material has been done to death. And once you get past Holland, what is there of real worth? A bunch of piano demos with Brian coughing his way through the songs?
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Post by bellesofparisstan on Nov 13, 2021 16:47:39 GMT
Personally, I don't see the need for a huge 60th anniversary box. And I doubt that there is tons of great stuff still in the vault waiting to be released. The one period still ripe for rediscovery is the CATP/Holland/In Concert period. I don't know exactly what is in the vaults from that time, but I assume it's similar to the Sunflower/Surf's Up era. Feel Flows is a godsend. I'm hopeful that we get the Sail on Sailor box; I think that's the way to approach these things now; one or two albums at a time. Forget the career spanning stuff. The 60's material has been done to death. And once you get past Holland, what is there of real worth? A bunch of piano demos with Brian coughing his way through the songs? There is way, way more finished stuff in the vault from 74-81 than there is from 72-73. Especially from 76-78
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 13, 2021 17:48:38 GMT
Personally, I don't see the need for a huge 60th anniversary box. And I doubt that there is tons of great stuff still in the vault waiting to be released. The one period still ripe for rediscovery is the CATP/Holland/In Concert period. I don't know exactly what is in the vaults from that time, but I assume it's similar to the Sunflower/Surf's Up era. Feel Flows is a godsend. I'm hopeful that we get the Sail on Sailor box; I think that's the way to approach these things now; one or two albums at a time. Forget the career spanning stuff. The 60's material has been done to death. And once you get past Holland, what is there of real worth? A bunch of piano demos with Brian coughing his way through the songs? There is way, way more finished stuff in the vault from 74-81 than there is from 72-73. Especially from 76-78 The question is how much of it is interesting/good. Personally I like the then-new Adult/Child songs, but I could do without most of the oldies covers they did in those years. I would also be interested in hearing whatever original material Al and Carl might have initiated from that era, as I'm not familiar with that. (And of course any original stuff from Brian beyond the aforementioned, too.)
But otherwise, while I'd still buy whatever is released, I don't know how much I'd be excited about it.
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Post by lonelysummer on Nov 14, 2021 5:07:12 GMT
Personally, I don't see the need for a huge 60th anniversary box. And I doubt that there is tons of great stuff still in the vault waiting to be released. The one period still ripe for rediscovery is the CATP/Holland/In Concert period. I don't know exactly what is in the vaults from that time, but I assume it's similar to the Sunflower/Surf's Up era. Feel Flows is a godsend. I'm hopeful that we get the Sail on Sailor box; I think that's the way to approach these things now; one or two albums at a time. Forget the career spanning stuff. The 60's material has been done to death. And once you get past Holland, what is there of real worth? A bunch of piano demos with Brian coughing his way through the songs? There is way, way more finished stuff in the vault from 74-81 than there is from 72-73. Especially from 76-78 But is it any better than what got released?
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Post by bellesofparisstan on Nov 15, 2021 4:21:32 GMT
There is way, way more finished stuff in the vault from 74-81 than there is from 72-73. Especially from 76-78 But is it any better than what got released? That’s subjective obviously. The important thing is, there is a lot of finished music from that time that hasn’t been released. Release it
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Post by bellesofparisstan on Nov 15, 2021 4:26:18 GMT
There’s a bunch of covers that were left off 15 big ones, and a bunch of songs left off of love you and adult child, not to mention several alt mixes and vocals. That’s what I’m most looking forward to. They could easily make a 6-8 disc box just from 15 big ones through MIU
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Nov 15, 2021 11:55:17 GMT
There’s a bunch of covers that were left off 15 big ones, and a bunch of songs left off of love you and adult child, not to mention several alt mixes and vocals. That’s what I’m most looking forward to. They could easily make a 6-8 disc box just from 15 big ones through MIU Brian and the band recorded an incredible amount of music in just two years (1976-77). For that boxed set (and I know we're getting ahead of ourselves), I would include:
- 15 Big Ones - The Beach Boys Love You - Adult Child - M.I.U. Album
bellesofparisstan, I'll ask again. Do you know specifically what caused Brian and Joe Thomas's relationship to disintegrate again during/after No Pier Pressure?
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Post by bellesofparisstan on Nov 16, 2021 17:19:10 GMT
There’s a bunch of covers that were left off 15 big ones, and a bunch of songs left off of love you and adult child, not to mention several alt mixes and vocals. That’s what I’m most looking forward to. They could easily make a 6-8 disc box just from 15 big ones through MIU Brian and the band recorded an incredible amount of music in just two years (1976-77). For that boxed set (and I know we're getting ahead of ourselves), I would include:
- 15 Big Ones - The Beach Boys Love You - Adult Child - M.I.U. Album
bellesofparisstan, I'll ask again. Do you know specifically what caused Brian and Joe Thomas's relationship to disintegrate again during/after No Pier Pressure? No idea.
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 19, 2021 16:07:10 GMT
Yes! OK, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I don't see any point in angst over anything they do or don't do at this point in their career. This is from the Long Promised Road thread, but I brought it over here to comment on this topic more specifically.
The idea was, is Azoff/Iconic supposed to force the band into doing an album if they don't want, and you can see Sheriff John Stone's (presumably somewhat tongue-in-cheek) answer, and kds's response to the response.
On this I think that all jokes aside, nobody can or should make these guys do anything they're not contractually obligated to do. And while I realize Iconic apparently has control over what is released, presumably that doesn't include new work from a band not under contract to produce new work.
I've written plenty, including in this thread, how cool a new album could be. But if they don't want to do it, if they were to be forced into it, what would make anyone think that the results would be any good? There is a trope in the history of rock music about what happens when an artist is contractually obligated to provide an album that s/he's not interested in doing. Often, it ends up a half-assed piece of crap. A covers album, throwaway songs, or occasionally a double-album of feedback.
Beyond that, I'm just sick to death of the false camaraderie. It's too convenient that they all get along just peachy whenever there is a major anniversary or product, but bicker and snipe at one another from their separate camps in between. If they wanted to work together, if they wanted to be productive as a group, there has been nothing keeping them from doing so except themselves. To think "wives and managers" are truly capable of blocking successful, grown men from being in a band if they want to be in a band is really condescending to the guys themselves (not to mention disrespectful to the wives, in particular: what spouse wants to keep her spouse from personal and artistic fulfillment against his wishes?).
My point? Eh, I barely have one. I guess it's mostly just another post demonstrating my mixed emotions about the state and potential of the group at this very late stage in the game.
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