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Post by Kapitan on Dec 22, 2021 13:55:30 GMT
While I am not always entirely aligned on the suspected reasoning, I think you're right, Sheriff John Stone: I suspect the touring Beach Boys would've continued, and Brian would have continued as a solo artist. The main thing I'm not sure of is Al, and whether he'd have been pushed out if Carl were still there.
But I don't think Carl would've left the group and joined Brian, at least not early on. If anything, I think it might have been possible a little later, maybe in the BWPS-TLOS period. And I'm not sure why I think that, I just have a hunch (so it's meaningless). Maybe just that as Brian was starting to get really active, actually writing some good new music, Carl might have wanted to be a part of that.
In the end, though, while Carl obviously credited Brian with creating most of the Beach Boys' music, I think he also knew which side his bread was buttered on: I think he'd have continued to be a Beach Boy rather than being a part of Brian's solo projects (if he'd even be invited, which isn't a given). Were he to join up with Brian, I think it would have required a Wilson Brothers branding or something. Carl was no simple sideman.
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Post by The Cincinnati Kid on Dec 22, 2021 14:07:36 GMT
My big what if is would Smile have been a Beach Boys album with Carl around? I still say could have hit number one with their name attached to it instead of a solo project. They may have even cracked hot 100. I think Good Vibrations charted in the UK as is. The last 15 years could have really been different at that point.
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 22, 2021 14:13:05 GMT
My big what if is would Smile have been a Beach Boys album with Carl around? I still say could have hit number one with their name attached to it instead of a solo project. They may have even cracked hot 100. I think Good Vibrations charted in the UK as is. The last 15 years could have really been different at that point. I definitely agree it could have been even a bigger event than it was had it been a BBs project.
It makes a person wonder, though: how would it have been different? Would they have entirely re-recorded it the way the BW band did? Or used old tapes? What about vocals? Would they have re-recorded (or recorded for the first time, where necessary) all of them, or just the ones they didn't have yet? How weird would the result have been if it were a Frankenstein's monster? And for that matter, how many of the new vocals would have required the BW band or others anyway, the guys' voices having deteriorated significantly since 1966-67?
I know this is a counterfactual regardless, but ... would Brian have been willing and able to participate if he were revisiting it with the others (especially Mike)? Or would that have been too much for him?
That project would be a massive topic unto itself. But I think it is more likely there would have been no BWPS-style Smile at all if the guys had reunited. More likely something like the Smile Sessions (though it wouldn't be modeled on BWPS if BWPS didn't exist) TLOS.
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Post by kds on Dec 22, 2021 14:16:45 GMT
I have a feeling that Smile still would've been a BW project. After all, it was Darian who got the ball rolling on it. And, I have a feeling that Brian, or Brian's Team for argument sake, wouldn't want to risk some of the same issues with having both Mike and Van Dyke back in the same room together.
The one album I wonder about is That Lucky Old Sun. That's one Brian album that seems like it would've been tailor made for a Beach Boys reunion.
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 22, 2021 14:25:39 GMT
The one album I wonder about is That Lucky Old Sun. That's one Brian album that seems like it would've been tailor made for a Beach Boys reunion. I almost went off into a big thing about that a couple posts back. But I realized that was totally just my fantasy. That said, yeah, TLOS seems like such a great Beach Boys album (if it had been one). And I think that even with the guys who were still around; once we add in the fantasy of a still-living Carl? TWGMTR was a very strong reunion album, but TLOS would have been much better still. It's so easy to plug in other guys' voices and imagine those songs...
Brian on "TLOS"
Mike and/or Al on "Morning Beat"
Group on "Good Kind of Love" Brian with Carl on "Forever She'll Be My Surfer Girl" Al with Brian on "Live Let Live" Mike and Al or Carl on a 25% better "Mexican Girl" Group on "California Role" Brian with Al on "Oxygen to the Brain" Group on "Can't Wait Too Long"
Carl with Brian on "Midnight's Another Day"
Mike on "Goin Home,"
Carl on "Southern California"
Bruce on mic-stand adjustment duty
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Dec 22, 2021 14:41:56 GMT
Remember (and don't get me started ) BWPS was initially (and correctly, only later did they bastardize SMiLE with the BWPS album) constructed for a live performance - by the solo Brian - in order to resurrect/save his failing solo career. They didn't want or need The Beach Boys.
I could see Carl maybe contributing one-off or occasional guest vocals (like "Soul Searchin'") on Brian's solo albums. I can almost hear Brian in interviews..."I wrote that song and wanted Carl to sing it. I wrote it with Carl's voice in mind..." I don't think Carl would've left The Beach Boys to tour or record albums with Brian. That would've muddied the waters substantially in Brian's career and life. I mean, it's one thing to recruit Al to offset Mike & Bruce, but I don't think Carl would've wanted to get involved with that.
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Post by kds on Dec 22, 2021 14:42:53 GMT
I think Bruce could ad some barely audible high harmonies and hand claps to Good Kind of Love also.
Hmmmm, now what would Mike say about those spoken word bits?
Naturally, Al would handle them.
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 22, 2021 14:58:57 GMT
I think Bruce could ad some barely audible high harmonies and hand claps to Good Kind of Love also. Hmmmm, now what would Mike say about those spoken word bits? Naturally, Al would handle them. Let's be honest, "hey bonita muchacha, doncha know that I wantcha" is really, really PERFECT for Dr. Love. And Brianistas everywhere would've condemned him eternally for it.
Good call on Al for the spoken word bits!
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Post by kds on Dec 22, 2021 15:34:13 GMT
I think Bruce could ad some barely audible high harmonies and hand claps to Good Kind of Love also. Hmmmm, now what would Mike say about those spoken word bits? Naturally, Al would handle them. Let's be honest, "hey bonita muchacha, doncha know that I wantcha" is really, really PERFECT for Dr. Love. And Brianistas everywhere would've condemned him eternally for it.
Good call on Al for the spoken word bits! Van Dyke - So, to bridge the songs, I wrote some spoken word sections. Would anyone like to...
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Post by bellesofparisstan on Dec 26, 2021 7:39:43 GMT
Maybe if Carl lived, we would have gotten more Brianless Beach Boys albums. Obviously this isn’t the alternate reality that anyone really wants, but it’s hard to deny that Carl did allow the recording and distribution of Summer in Paradise with his full participation in its creation and promotion, and by 1992 Mike was talking about a follow up in an interview promoting the album. So I personally don’t think that it’s impossible that we couldn’t have gotten more albums under the Beach boys names that were mostly done by Mike, Bruce, Al, Carl, and Adrian Baker, maybe with a Brian cameo here and there. Meanwhile, Brian‘s solo career would continue as it did. I don’t think this is what would have happened, but I also don’t think that it was out of the realm of possibilities.
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 29, 2021 20:39:21 GMT
Maybe if Carl lived, we would have gotten more Brianless Beach Boys albums. Obviously this isn’t the alternate reality that anyone really wants, but it’s hard to deny that Carl did allow the recording and distribution of Summer in Paradise with his full participation in its creation and promotion, and by 1992 Mike was talking about a follow up in an interview promoting the album. So I personally don’t think that it’s impossible that we couldn’t have gotten more albums under the Beach boys names that were mostly done by Mike, Bruce, Al, Carl, and Adrian Baker, maybe with a Brian cameo here and there. Meanwhile, Brian‘s solo career would continue as it did. I don’t think this is what would have happened, but I also don’t think that it was out of the realm of possibilities. I actually think that's very likely, at least for some period of time. As you said, it isn't as if Carl and Brian were tight for the decade-plus before his death, at least not in terms of working together, or Carl really standing up for Brian's "artistic endeavors" (as Brianistas were wont to consider things), etc. Carl was obviously at least somewhat resigned to being a Mike Love-led Beach Boy.
Now, whether Carl would have been turned on by Brian's Wondermints-driven live band, or the resurrection of Smile, or a project like TLOS, and eventually come around to either joining Brian (unlikely in my opinion) or bringing the group back together (more likely, but honestly still nothing near certain in my opinion), that's something we can only speculate about.
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 31, 2021 14:10:33 GMT
The Cincinnati Kid reasonably suggested that a C60 would likely be accompanied by some sort of new equivalent to the 50 Big Ones greatest hits set.
Something I'm wondering though: do as many and as frequent greatest hits sets (barring new material or mixes, etc.) really make much sense in the current musical environment? There was a time that old GH sets would go out of print, old vinyl or cassettes in particular would physically wear out ... but now most people stream music, and the likes of 50 Big Ones remain readily available.
I'd imagine that barring bonus material, it's deluxe collectibles versions that would be the only real selling point. And that means it's only the big spender/collector types getting excited for their red, white & blue vinyl with a full-size surfboard (or whatever), not the casual fans getting a great introduction to the band.
Otherwise how could it possibly be financially worthwhile to do something so similar to what they've done before? And before, and before, and before?
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Dec 31, 2021 14:57:19 GMT
The Cincinnati Kid reasonably suggested that a C60 would likely be accompanied by some sort of new equivalent to the 50 Big Ones greatest hits set.
Something I'm wondering though: do as many and as frequent greatest hits sets (barring new material or mixes, etc.) really make much sense in the current musical environment? There was a time that old GH sets would go out of print, old vinyl or cassettes in particular would physically wear out ... but now most people stream music, and the likes of 50 Big Ones remain readily available.
I'd imagine that barring bonus material, it's deluxe collectibles versions that would be the only real selling point. And that means it's only the big spender/collector types getting excited for their red, white & blue vinyl with a full-size surfboard (or whatever), not the casual fans getting a great introduction to the band.
Otherwise how could it possibly be financially worthwhile to do something so similar to what they've done before? And before, and before, and before?
It's diminishing returns, no doubt about it. But, because several Beach Boys' fans - and fans who would purchase such a comp - are senior citizens and still utilizing CDs, it would probably be worth it to pursue.
As a comp lover, I've been thinking about a 60 song Beach Boys' "Best Of" comp. It would be great if they could do a 2 disc, 30 songs-per-disc comp. Actually, THAT would be the greatest 2CD comp ever! However, if they went chronologically, while they could fit 30 (of the earlier) songs on CD1, it would not be possible to fit 30 (of the later) songs on CD2 or CD3. So...I would propose a 3CD, 20 tracks-per-disc comp. Yes, you'd have some wasted space on CD 1 and CD 2, but I kinda like the consistent 20 tracks x 3 format. Oh, and package it in those 3CD jewel cases. A boxed set is not necessary.
CD 1: 1962-1965 CD 2: 1966-1975 CD 3: 1976-2022
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Post by bellesofparisstan on Dec 31, 2021 15:28:58 GMT
Yeah I don’t really get it either. Personally I would rather them do an anthology type compilation to go along with the documentary. You know, like 60 tracks maybe, but they’re 60 rare or unreleased tracks. Almost like a modern version of Hawthorne CA, with a larger focus on the post 60s material. I mean obviously I know the big album sets are getting the archival material out there slowly, but it’s no doubt that there are several very important tracks that fans still want that, if they’re only considering copyrights and such, still have a long time before they have to be released. Stevie for example, we’re still 9 or so years away from them being forced to let that one go. Or stuff that they entirely skipped over releasing over the last several years, like the Mike lead vocal on Please Let Me Wonder. Would be cool for just a career retrospective rarities comp, not just a particular focus on one era.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Dec 31, 2021 21:45:41 GMT
If I had my druthers - Iconic, are you listening - to recognize and celebrate The Beach Boys' 60th anniversary in 2022, I would release a 3CD "Best Of" set comprised of 60 songs with 20 tracks per CD. This would be my desired tracklist:
The Beach Boys - 60 Big Ones
CD1 01 Surfin' Safari 02 409 03 Shut Down
04 Surfin' U.S.A. 05 Surfer Girl 06 Little Deuce Coupe 07 Be True To Your School 08 In My Room 09 Don't Worry Baby 10 Fun, Fun, Fun 11 The Warmth Of The Sun 12 I Get Around 13 All Summer Long 14 Do You Wanna Dance 15 Please Let Me Wonder 16 Dance, Dance, Dance 17 When I Grow Up (To Be A Man) 18 California Girls 19 Help Me, Rhonda 20 Barbara Ann
CD2 01 Wouldn't It Be Nice 02 God Only Knows 03 Sloop John B 04 Caroline, No 05 Good Vibrations 06 Heroes And Villains 07 Darlin' 08 Friends 09 Do It Again 10 I Can Hear Music 11 Cabin Essence 12 Breakaway 13 Forever 14 This Whole World 15 'Til I Die 16 Surf's Up 17 Disney Girls 18 Marcella 19 Sail On, Sailor 20 California Saga: California
CD3 01 Rock And Roll Music 02 Back Home 03 It's OK 04 Susie Cincinnati 05 The Night Was So Young 06 I'll Bet He's Nice 07 Come Go With Me 08 Good Timin' 09 Lady Lynda 10 Keepin' The Summer Alive 11 Goin' On 12 Getcha Back 13 California Calling 14 Where I Belong 15 Kokomo 16 Still Cruisin' 17 Summer In Paradise 18 From There To Back Again 19 Pacific Coast Highway 20 Summer's Gone
- Package it in this jewel case:
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