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Post by The Cincinnati Kid on Oct 27, 2021 12:55:54 GMT
Saw this posted over at SS: Here's a reply from Stanley Shapiro to an article about Dennis in Shindig. I think most will find it very interesting! You can find the article here... www.shindig-magazine.com/?p=4986 Stanley Shapiro says: October 20, 2021 at 11:36 am My name is Stanley Shapiro… I wrote 100% of the words in the song WOULDN’T IT BE NICE TO LIVE AGAIN. I wrote those words long before Dennis met Barbara Charren and the song had NOTHING to with Barbara whatsoever… As a matter of fact I was with Dennis when we met Barbara for the very first time at the Hamburger Hamlet in the Westwood Village next door to the theater on the corner. I wrote the song as a part of a six page letter appealing to my girlfriend to come back after she moved out and moved in with an older man who was an associate of Bill Hayward (the co-producer of EASY RIDER). Dennis and I agreed to write the songs for the movie… but, NOT that particular song. I wrote that song in 1969… not 1971. These are the facts… my girlfriend came to ‘Hollywood’ from the Midwest to visit her long time friend who was living with Hayward at the time. She moved in with me before production on EASY RIDER began. She was smitten with the movie business and, after we were invited to a dinner party at Hayward’s home in the Hollywood hills, met a picture producer who was 26 years older than she. She was an aspiring actress and he enticed her with the loan of a Mercedes Benz 280 SE convertible and the use of his Bel Air residence. She fell for that and moved in with him. I was heart broken and pleaded with her to come back in a six page letter, in which I penned the poetic song. I sent the letter to her and a few days later it was returned unopened. I opened the envelope and left the letter on my kitchen table. Dennis read the letter and pleaded with me to let him use it in a song. I turned him down… (and, for the record, at that point Darryl had nothing to do with it)… I didn’t like his suggestion that Dennis was a reincarnation of ‘Wagner’ … an anti-Semitic Nazi who was sympathetic to Hitler in WW2. A couple of weeks later I got a call from another producer who asked me if I heard what happened to my girlfriend.. I was devastated to learn that she had taken her own life after a falling out with the movie maker, and Dennis begged me, once again, to let him put the words to music. This time I acquiest to his persistence and let him record it… the two of us own that song 50/50 and Daryl Dragon owns none of it. Mike Love hated the song and the two of us as well. Dennis went to war over the inclusion of the song on the Surf’s Up album and decided to yank it off after a bitter fight over the lack of interest on the Beach Boys part, telling them they weren’t worthy of the song. On the way out of the studio he turned and told Mike to go back and write something ‘earth shaking’… like a few more stupid ‘car’ songs. It was a bitter disappointment and wound up in the vaults at Capitol Records. It was rediscovered by Alan Boyd (the Beach Boys archivist and award winning documentarian after Dennis died). It was subsequently covered by a little known group called CHAOS and wound up being placed on the ballot for a Grammy nomination as the SONG OF THE YEAR. In the end, the Beach Boys did nothing to use it or promote it, and it stayed hidden in the vaults for an eternity. Mike Love replaced the song with an inappropriate ‘tune’ called Student Demonstration Time using the music from another song composed by Mike Stoller… WHAT A GENIUS!!!
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Oct 27, 2021 13:15:29 GMT
I appreciate all of the detailed information from Shapiro. It's always nice to hear the "story behind the music" and this was fascinating stuff. And, "(Wouldn't It Be Nice) To Live Again" is a song that we really didn't know a lot about. However, was it necessary for Shapiro to surface after how many years, and proceed to take some shots at Mike Love? I feel sad for Shapiro if he's been harboring those feelings for 50 years. It's one thing to say that Mike "hated the song and the two of us as well". That's his opinion. But when Shapiro says, sarcastically, "Mike replaced the song with an inappropriate 'tune' called Student Demonstration Time" and, "WHAT A GENIUS!!!", I have to ask for some clarification.
Does Shapiro know something that we fans don't know about "(Wouldn't It Be Nice) To Live Again"'s non-appearance on Surf's Up (or subsequent albums)? For several years now we've been reading from a few other sources that it was Dennis Wilson himself who pulled the song. And, after reading these new comments from Shapiro, I'll ask - Did Mike Love individually have the power/authority to decide which songs were ultimately chosen for the final lineup on the Surf's Up album?
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 27, 2021 13:19:30 GMT
Thanks for posting that, TCK. Interesting reading. As for Mr. Shapiro's response, it seems a little unnecessarily confrontational to me. The article wasn't crediting Dragon for WIBNTLA, but Shapiro makes a big point to "remove" that nonexistent credit. It said of the song only: Shapiro also seems a bit confused about Wagner, calling him an "anti-Semitic Nazi who was sympathetic to Hitler in WW2." Richard Wagner was indeed an anti-Semite, but he died in 1883. The Nazi party was founded in 1920, with Hitler taking over its leadership in 1921. Suffice to say, Wagner was neither pro-Hitler nor Nazi. The reverse is probably closer to true, which might be what Shapiro meant: Hitler and some Nazis in general were big fans of Wagner. However, there is disagreement over the extent of it.
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sockit
The Surfer Moon
Posts: 234
Likes: 181
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Post by sockit on Oct 29, 2021 22:21:08 GMT
It was an interesting read, but the trash talk was entirely unnecessary.
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Post by bellesofparisstan on Nov 12, 2021 2:55:30 GMT
I appreciate all of the detailed information from Shapiro. It's always nice to hear the "story behind the music" and this was fascinating stuff. And, "(Wouldn't It Be Nice) To Live Again" is a song that we really didn't know a lot about. However, was it necessary for Shapiro to surface after how many years, and proceed to take some shots at Mike Love? I feel sad for Shapiro if he's been harboring those feelings for 50 years. It's one thing to say that Mike "hated the song and the two of us as well". That's his opinion. But when Shapiro says, sarcastically, "Mike replaced the song with an inappropriate 'tune' called Student Demonstration Time" and, "WHAT A GENIUS!!!", I have to ask for some clarification.
Does Shapiro know something that we fans don't know about "(Wouldn't It Be Nice) To Live Again"'s non-appearance on Surf's Up (or subsequent albums)? For several years now we've been reading from a few other sources that it was Dennis Wilson himself who pulled the song. And, after reading these new comments from Shapiro, I'll ask - Did Mike Love individually have the power/authority to decide which songs were ultimately chosen for the final lineup on the Surf's Up album?
Stanley is a known liar, pretty sure he’s the guy that came up with the “song to God” nonsense, and what he says here is entirely untrue. To clear it up… Student Demonstration Time was recorded in October and November 1970. Wouldn’t it be nice to live again didn’t begin recording until May 23, 1971. Dennis wanted it to close the album. Carl, Jack and every other member of the band thought Surfs Up deserved to close the album, just because of its methodical status and what it represented. Dennis disagreed, and decided that he was better off saving his music for a solo album. He also felt that his music was sounding less and less “beach boysi”, so he removed all of his songs from the tracklist options. From Everything I’ve read and heard, there was absolutely never a live again versus student demonstration time conversation, just like there was never a song to God.
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Post by bellesofparisstan on Nov 12, 2021 3:08:07 GMT
It's great to finally hear a "finished" version of Soulful Old Man Sunshine! Wow, I would like to know the background on this mix. For so many years I thought what we had was all there ever was. The EH mix goes into fake stereo at least five times, right? This mix is not perfect--it sounds like Carl(?) is a little out of synch on the tags. And what happened to the harpsichord? Is it buried (like the xylophone) or gone completely? Anyway, this song has always been a favorite of mine and I like this mix. I would gladly pay to watch a documentary about this song's journey from composition to this version's release. The material those sessions obviously produced was remarkable in how different the two released mixes are! And getting rid of that sound in the EH mix that I've always felt was a weird tinniness--and from what you say here, might be fake stereo causing what I hear?--is a godsend.
I'm assuming the slightly out of sync vocal (not to mention lack of shunshine) means they found another take, maybe a rehearsal take done before harmonies were laid down, so there was nothing to sync to yet. (And then the "final" was done over the harmonies.) Total guesswork, but it would explain it.
Soulful old man sunshine was recorded like this: Instrumental track: Rick Hen Vocals with absolutely no Brian involvement, just Rick and the boys. This is the source of the mix on feel flows, the version on here has absolutely no Brian involvement. Later, they re-recorded the vocals with Brian participating and arranging. This is the version on endless harmony and made in California. They have a multi track tape for the version without Brian that they made the new mix from. For the version with Brian, they only have rough mixes made at the time. For the EH and MIC mix, they used a mix prepared in the early 90s by Rick and one of the dragon brothers that spliced together several of the rough mixes from 1969. Apparently the weird filter during parts of the song is not fake stereo, but it’s actually the track being played through some sort of organ filter that Desper was experimenting with at the time. This filter is also applied on the lead vocal of Deirdre. Unfortunately, as the multi for that version with Brian involvement is missing,the 90s mix is all that can exist
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 12, 2021 12:11:15 GMT
Apparently the weird filter during parts of the song is not fake stereo, but it’s actually the track being played through some sort of organ filter that Desper was experimenting with at the time. This filter is also applied on the lead vocal of Deirdre. Unfortunately, as the multi for that version with Brian involvement is missing,the 90s mix is all that can exist Thank you. I've always wondered about that sound (and disliked it) on "Soulful." (I actually like it on "Deirdre.")
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Post by bellesofparisstan on Nov 12, 2021 15:32:58 GMT
Apparently the weird filter during parts of the song is not fake stereo, but it’s actually the track being played through some sort of organ filter that Desper was experimenting with at the time. This filter is also applied on the lead vocal of Deirdre. Unfortunately, as the multi for that version with Brian involvement is missing,the 90s mix is all that can exist Thank you. I've always wondered about that sound (and disliked it) on "Soulful." (I actually like it on "Deirdre.") Luckily, someone on YouTube has blended the two mixes together, taking the best parts of both. I almost wish that a mix like this would have been what appeared on the box. Brian‘s arrangement of the crisscrossing vocals at the end is extremely missed, and Carl just sounds awkward during the second half of the song with absolutely no backing vocals behind him.
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 12, 2021 15:45:31 GMT
I agree. Actually I would like the mix that did appear on FF as well as one like this. But really, what a shame the multitracks from that Brian-led (or -involved, at least) session don't exist (or at least aren't known to exist). That would be fun to take apart.
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sockit
The Surfer Moon
Posts: 234
Likes: 181
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Post by sockit on Nov 13, 2021 0:49:14 GMT
Apparently the weird filter during parts of the song is not fake stereo, but it’s actually the track being played through some sort of organ filter that Desper was experimenting with at the time. This filter is also applied on the lead vocal of Deirdre. Unfortunately, as the multi for that version with Brian involvement is missing,the 90s mix is all that can exist Thank you. I've always wondered about that sound (and disliked it) on "Soulful." (I actually like it on "Deirdre.") Don't care for it on Deirdre.... but I can live with it.
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sockit
The Surfer Moon
Posts: 234
Likes: 181
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Post by sockit on Nov 25, 2021 17:00:14 GMT
Hey it's been pretty quiet on this thread lately! I've been listening to the various tracks on this boxed set in random order for the last several weeks and I'm still making interesting discoveries.
Last night I took a close listen to Dennis and Daryl's "Before" and it struck me that it sounds like it could have been a Who song, namely from the Lifehouse/Who's Next era. The group harmonies near the beginning is all Beach Boys--granted, The Who's vocal harmonies would have sounded quite different--but other elements in the song are quite Who-ish. I can imagine Roger Daltrey belting out the lead vocal : "C'mon, c'mon, etc....". I can also imagine Pete Townshend on the lead guitar part. The time signature change is also something The Who would have done.
Does anyone else hear this, or am I alone in my principals?
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Post by jk on Nov 25, 2021 18:48:37 GMT
Hey it's been pretty quiet on this thread lately! I've been listening to the various tracks on this boxed set in random order for the last several weeks and I'm still making interesting discoveries. Last night I took a close listen to Dennis and Daryl's "Before" and it struck me that it sounds like it could have been a Who song, namely from the Lifehouse/Who's Next era. The group harmonies near the beginning is all Beach Boys--granted, The Who's vocal harmonies would have sounded quite different--but other elements in the song are quite Who-ish. I can imagine Roger Daltrey belting out the lead vocal : "C'mon, c'mon, etc....". I can also imagine Pete Townshend on the lead guitar part. The time signature change is also something The Who would have done. Does anyone else hear this, or am I alone in my principles? Good observation, s. I can easily hear Roger doing this -- in fact those upper notes could almost be him! I can hear Pete on the lead guitar part too. "Before" is one of three songs in the box set I really love, the others being the 4/4 time "Big Sur" and "It's A New Day".
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 26, 2021 0:50:55 GMT
Last night I took a close listen to Dennis and Daryl's "Before" and it struck me that it sounds like it could have been a Who song, namely from the Lifehouse/Who's Next era. The group harmonies near the beginning is all Beach Boys--granted, The Who's vocal harmonies would have sounded quite different--but other elements in the song are quite Who-ish. I can imagine Roger Daltrey belting out the lead vocal : "C'mon, c'mon, etc....". I can also imagine Pete Townshend on the lead guitar part. The time signature change is also something The Who would have done. Does anyone else hear this, or am I alone in my principals? I had not thought of it, but now that you mention it, absolutely I think it makes sense. I totally hear it.
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sockit
The Surfer Moon
Posts: 234
Likes: 181
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Post by sockit on Nov 26, 2021 4:58:11 GMT
"Before" is one of three songs in the box set I really love, the others being the 4/4 time "Big Sur" and "It's A New Day". Yes! I completely agree. 3 of the many standouts in this excavation.
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 14, 2021 14:02:29 GMT
We are getting to the time of year when we ought to be seeing anything else that might be dumped onto the market (in digital release) for copyright protection.
Having not been as big a fan of the piano or soundtrack albums, I'd love a little more Beach Boys music as a palette cleanser. (And yeah, I guess that's a spoiled brat talking, considering we had three releases plus a movie in the last third of the year.)
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