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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Aug 31, 2021 16:43:10 GMT
Howie wrote them but I'm sure he wasn't responsible for the copy editing. A question for you, and you don't have to answer it....
What if you were hired to write the liner notes for a project that you loved working on, that would go out to hopefully millions of people over the years, that would actually serve as an historical musical document, and that you poured your heart and soul into every written word. After your liner notes were eventually printed for the final product/booklet - wouldn't you take...a few minutes...to proof read them yourself or have somebody else who is qualified proof read them?
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 31, 2021 16:48:28 GMT
Howie wrote them but I'm sure he wasn't responsible for the copy editing. A question for you, and you don't have to answer it....
What if you were hired to write the liner notes for a project that you loved working on, that would go out to hopefully millions of people over the years, that would actually serve as an historical musical document, and that you poured your heart and soul into every written word. After your liner notes were eventually printed for the final product/booklet - wouldn't you take...a few minutes...to proof read them?
Oh, of course. But everyone who has ever written (or edited) for a living knows you WILL make mistakes. What's worse, when you proofread your own work, you tend to see what you meant, not what you wrote. There are tricks to get around it to some extent, like going backward (so you aren't reading).
But it's not really a writer's fault when things slip past editors, in my opinion. I thought Howie did a good job on the liner notes. Someone else along the line is responsible for not doing a better job copy editing.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Aug 31, 2021 17:01:04 GMT
A question for you, and you don't have to answer it....
What if you were hired to write the liner notes for a project that you loved working on, that would go out to hopefully millions of people over the years, that would actually serve as an historical musical document, and that you poured your heart and soul into every written word. After your liner notes were eventually printed for the final product/booklet - wouldn't you take...a few minutes...to proof read them?
Oh, of course. But everyone who has ever written (or edited) for a living knows you WILL make mistakes. What's worse, when you proofread your own work, you tend to see what you meant, not what you wrote. There are tricks to get around it to some extent, like going backward (so you aren't reading).
But it's not really a writer's fault when things slip past editors, in my opinion. I thought Howie did a good job on the liner notes. Someone else along the line is responsible for not doing a better job copy editing.
I edited my post to include "or have somebody else who is qualified proof read them" while you were writing/posting. My point has nothing to do with whether or not Howie did a good job with his writing, but just the typical unprofessionalism and head-scratching mistakes that seem to occur on a large number of Beach Boys' releases - and this is just another of them. I think the artwork, cover, and overall packaging is terrible.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 31, 2021 17:26:56 GMT
I'm fine with the artwork, packaging, etc. I think it's pretty cool. Not my favorite, but not the worst. Of course packaging and artwork are not really something I spend much time thinking about, especially after the initial moments. Then it's just up on a shelf, rarely to be looked at again.
The book was a cool way to get it into a single piece, a la MiC--not a box that you open and have multiple, different components, a la The Smile Sessions, Good Vibrations, Pet Sounds Sessions, etc.--which I prefer in terms of just keeping things together.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 31, 2021 19:16:34 GMT
For what it's worth, I count 62 things I'd consider copy editing errors/oversights in the liner notes essay. (I didn't review the details that come after the essay.) There are 19 pages of copy (though the first and last are more like 1/4 to 1/3 of a page each), with the rest containing full-page images. That means there is an average of almost 3.3 errors per page.
There is always room for disagreement over these things, so I don't pretend I'm correct on everything. Sometimes there isn't a "correct." But some of them, for example, are about inconsistencies where the same situation occurs more than once and is treated differently. One way or the other could work just fine as a matter of opinion, but both cannot be correct.
There are also just matters of taste, which I tried not to include. (For example, there are a LOT of dashes. As many as five in one sentence, as I recall. It's not a right-or-wrong situation, but I think it would be frowned upon by most copy editors.)
But there are a lot of single quotation marks--the apostrophes used to indicate quotes within quotes--facing the wrong way. Intentional? Apparently not, considering there are also a lot facing the generally correct direction in the same situation. There are unnecessary and inappropriate, additional commas and hyphens. There are missing as well as additional apostrophes.
I want to reiterate that I'm not complaining about the content of the liner notes Howie Edelson wrote. Whoever supervised the project should have ensured there was better copy editing so his work would be presented in the best possible light.
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Post by jk on Aug 31, 2021 20:33:48 GMT
But there are a lot of single quotation marks--the apostrophes used to indicate quotes within quotes--facing the wrong way. Intentional? Apparently not, considering there are also a lot facing the generally correct direction in the same situation. There are unnecessary and inappropriate, additional commas and hyphens. There are missing as well as additional apostrophes.
I want to reiterate that I'm not complaining about the content of the liner notes Howie Edelson wrote. Whoever supervised the project should have ensured there was better copy editing so his work would be presented in the best possible light.
Oh god. In the days when I copy edited books (it still happens now and again) I made a point of looking for these! I knew everyone else working on the project in question would "read over" them but to me they looked (and still look) supremely ugly. It happens so often that an inordinate amount of time is spent on earlier stages in the process, leaving too little time, if any, for the copy editor to do his/her work. Maybe that was the case here. What a pity for Howie's labour of love. To end on a positive note, it's wonderful to see Joshilyn's name in the "Special Thanks" department.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 31, 2021 20:39:56 GMT
To end on a positive note, it's wonderful to see Joshilyn's name in the "Special Thanks" department. I noticed that, and wondered what she did to get the thanks. Had she researched who played various sessions?
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Emdeeh
Pacific Coast Highway
Posts: 520
Likes: 532
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Post by Emdeeh on Aug 31, 2021 21:37:13 GMT
I think Joshilyn helped Alan and Mark go through the archives a few years back.
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Post by The Cincinnati Kid on Aug 31, 2021 22:33:43 GMT
Chapter 3:
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Post by B.E. on Sept 1, 2021 3:06:44 GMT
"It's A New Day" is another one that I wasn't crazy about, but finally hearing it in pristine sound quality has made a big difference.
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Post by jk on Sept 1, 2021 9:58:39 GMT
I want to reiterate that I'm not complaining about the content of the liner notes Howie Edelson wrote. Whoever supervised the project should have ensured there was better copy editing so his work would be presented in the best possible light.
This comment by Alan B in the EH Q&A may put it all in perspective: "Actually, the most DIFFICULT aspect of the Feel Flows project was keeping up with all of the revisions and tweaks to the text copy and tracklists and notes for all of the different configurations of the project 😝"
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 1, 2021 15:14:36 GMT
Here is an interview with Mark L and Alan B about Feel Flows in Variety, published yesterday.
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 1, 2021 19:53:21 GMT
Anybody else noticed (or been put off by) the REALLY long fades on some of these tracks? Much like my quibble about leaving in a lot of the extraneous noises on the unreleased stuff, there are also a lot of tracks that seem to have not just a couple of seconds, but 10 or more seconds of silence at the end. It's a little bit ridiculous. Were they paid by the second?
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 2, 2021 15:40:29 GMT
Out of curiosity...
Does anyone like "When Girls Get Together?" I don't mean you think it's fine, or you can find something in it that's cool. I mean you actually like the song, you choose it above many others of the era, you think it should have been on an album ... that level of like.
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Post by kds on Sept 2, 2021 16:06:06 GMT
Out of curiosity...
Does anyone like "When Girls Get Together?" I don't mean you think it's fine, or you can find something in it that's cool. I mean you actually like the song, you choose it above many others of the era, you think it should have been on an album ... that level of like.
I think it's shit. Of all the material they had during this era, this one being left off an album makes the most sense. However, when they chose to revive it for KTSA, what in the world were they thinking? They had a wealth of far better songs from the early 70s, or even Goin' to the Beach for that matter.
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