bellbottoms
Pacific Coast Highway
Posts: 727
Likes: 201
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Post by bellbottoms on Jun 17, 2020 18:09:15 GMT
I think I have to give this one to the Beatles. While Surf’s Up (either/any version) is achingly beautiful and one of the Beach Boys’ all time best songs, A Day in the Life is on a whole other epic, game changing level. Wistful, shocking, whimsical, it goes everywhere. “Somebody spoke and I went into a dream… ahhhh” is one of the all time best moments in music, period.
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 17, 2020 18:16:28 GMT
I feel comfortable saying that "Surf's Up" is the more impressive song. It is harder to imagine someone composing both music and lyrics. "ADITL" is much more in the realm of normalcy.
But I'm still not sure which I prefer or think is better.
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Post by kds on Jun 17, 2020 19:03:30 GMT
“Somebody spoke and I went into a dream… ahhhh” is one of the all time best moments in music, period. So is "I heard the word, wonderful thing, a children's soooooong........."
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bellbottoms
Pacific Coast Highway
Posts: 727
Likes: 201
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Post by bellbottoms on Jun 17, 2020 19:06:36 GMT
“Somebody spoke and I went into a dream… ahhhh” is one of the all time best moments in music, period. So is "I heard the word, wonderful thing, a children's soooooong........." You're not wrong about that.
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Post by kds on Jun 17, 2020 19:24:36 GMT
So is "I heard the word, wonderful thing, a children's soooooong........." You're not wrong about that. Such an impossible choice.
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 17, 2020 20:08:00 GMT
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 17, 2020 22:23:43 GMT
"Surf's Up" vs. "A Day In The Life"? Impossible. This isn't fair.
Two other-worldly, mind-blowing, iconic pieces of art. How great would've it been to hear these two songs actually going head-to-head in the summer of 1967. In some ways - not every/all ways but in some ways - the peak of both Brian's and John & Paul's career. Those two songs took pop/rock music to a place that not many musicians traveled.
I'm going with "A Day In The Life" for two reasons. Van Dyke Parks' lyrics keep the song from really getting to me, touching me. I love the line, "I heard the word, wonderful thing, a children's song", but the rest of the song's lyrics don't do it for me. Oh, I can appreciate them as art, and I wouldn't change them. Not one word. They HAD to be that way. They were of the moment, a special moment in time. I don't want to sound Mike Love-like, but they just don't resonate with me (like they probably do with others).
The second reason is simply the feeling I get when I hear "A Day In The Life". Whenever I hear the song, it takes me back to a time, a place, a world I was too young to remember or experience. It just feels cool and dreamy and I want to be there. I get these visuals of John and Paul and I like it, those visuals. "A Day In The Life"'s lyrics don't mean much either, but I can somehow relate to them better. I think.
I also might be a little prejudiced knowing that "Surf's Up" wasn't finished, then cobbled together, and Brian had all kind of issues with it. I know the final product is all that should matter, not the back story, but it is something I think about when I listen to "Surf's Up".
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 18, 2020 12:01:36 GMT
The second reason is simply the feeling I get when I hear "A Day In The Life". Whenever I hear the song, it takes me back to a time, a place, a world I was too young to remember or experience. It just feels cool and dreamy and I want to be there.
This resonates with me, and having thought about it, I have to admit is a big difference between the songs (and their albums) for me.
"A Day in the Life" and Pepper more broadly are and have always been magical for me. I've known them my whole life--and known them as a magical, era-defining work. I remember sitting between my parents' stereo system, the big cabinet speakers on each side of my head as I discovered what stereo meant. The sound effects, the melodies, the moods, were all magical.
"Surf's Up" was an adult experience: I heard (part of) it in the late '90s, the Bernstein snippet in one of the docs. Later, from the album of that name. And of course later still, in the Smile shows, then BWPS, etc. I can imagine how powerful all of that music would have been to me as a child, but it didn't exist in my world as a child. It has touched me very deeply, but I don't know whether moments like that in adulthood can match those of childhood. It was more like trying to convince myself there was still magic in the world, as opposed to living in a world that was magical. (When an adult peers into a wardrobe, she sees the inside of a wardrobe; when a child does, she finds Narnia.)
With that, I think I'm going to say I prefer ADAITL. "Surf's Up" is the more impressive piece of work, but I've got to go with the one that kept me in awe, lying on the floor between those speakers.
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Post by kds on Jun 18, 2020 12:16:21 GMT
"Surf's Up" vs. "A Day In The Life"? Impossible. This isn't fair.
Two other-worldly, mind-blowing, iconic pieces of art. How great would've it been to hear these two songs actually going head-to-head in the summer of 1967. In some ways - not every/all ways but in some ways - the peak of both Brian's and John & Paul's career. Those two songs took pop/rock music to a place that not many musicians traveled.
I'm going with "A Day In The Life" for two reasons. Van Dyke Parks' lyrics keep the song from really getting to me, touching me. I love the line, "I heard the word, wonderful thing, a children's song", but the rest of the song's lyrics don't do it for me. Oh, I can appreciate them as art, and I wouldn't change them. Not one word. They HAD to be that way. They were of the moment, a special moment in time. I don't want to sound Mike Love-like, but they just don't resonate with me (like they probably do with others).
The second reason is simply the feeling I get when I hear "A Day In The Life". Whenever I hear the song, it takes me back to a time, a place, a world I was too young to remember or experience. It just feels cool and dreamy and I want to be there. I get these visuals of John and Paul and I like it, those visuals. "A Day In The Life"'s lyrics don't mean much either, but I can somehow relate to them better. I think.
I also might be a little prejudiced knowing that "Surf's Up" wasn't finished, then cobbled together, and Brian had all kind of issues with it. I know the final product is all that should matter, not the back story, but it is something I think about when I listen to "Surf's Up". I'm with you on the lyrics. The lyrics to ADITL are certainly more relatable. I personally find Van Dyke's lyrics a little too abstract. Sure, they sound nice when strung together, but that's about it.
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 18, 2020 15:47:05 GMT
I think a lot of BBs fans' opinions have swayed away from liking VDP's lyrics, if many really liked them to begin with. But I have to admit, I still sometimes smile or giggle at their cleverness. That's not the same as emotionally touching, but it isn't a lesser joy.
What I love most are little games he plays.
"hand in hand, some drummed along to a handsome man..." "The music hall a costly bow, the music all is lost" (great loss in holocaust) "Carriage across the fog, two-step to lamp light cellar tune" (two-step is the dance to the tune, but "to step to" carries the motion of carriage) "The glass ... fired rose ... wine ... while at port..."
Or in H&V, the ambiguity between "Margaritas" or "margaritas" keeping the spirits high (and margaritas containing spirits, as well).
I get a real kick out of those kinds of things just as much as I do about lyrics like "Surfer Girl" and "In My Room."
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 18, 2020 16:45:25 GMT
I can't say that I necessarily enjoy Van Dyke Parks' lyrics, but I do appreciate them. I really do. And I will defend them and their influence on SMiLE to the end. There wouldn't be a SMiLE without them (duh!). Brian Wilson deserved the right to do whatever he wanted to do and to work with whoever he wanted. If he wanted to deviate from anything and everything - and that included using complex and elusive lyrics - then so be it. He was an artist. He had to be given the chance to express his art to its fullest extent. He should've been encouraged and not discouraged.
At the same time, I totally understand Mike's and some others' feelings, too. If they didn't understand, if they didn't prefer, if they just didn't LIKE Van Dyke's lyrics, they had the right to express that opinion. I wish Mike would've been a little more open in his accepting of the SMiLE lyrics, but I will never second guess him. KNOWING MYSELF, I PROBABLY WOULD'VE FELT THE SAME WAY! 20/20 hindsight and 45 years to reflect is a funny thing, isn't it? Sorry to get off on that SMiLE kick, but I thought it was relevant to the discussion.
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 18, 2020 17:11:08 GMT
Totally relevant to the discussion. Other than the part about our personal feelings about the VDP lyrics, I pretty much agree with you.
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Post by kds on Jun 19, 2020 13:53:12 GMT
Since we pitted those two masterpieces by The Beatles and Beach Boys, why stop there? Pet Sounds vs Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
Two all time great albums, each of which has been called "Greatest Album of All Time" at one time or another.
For me, it's actually a fairly easy decision - Pet Sounds. Now, I love Pepper, but to be honest, I don't even think its The Beatles' best album. I don't even think it's in their Top 5 to be honest. I think it's innovative, and was the right album at the right time. I'll give it that. Also, as much as I love George, Within You Without You in a five minute long anchor on that album. Pet Sounds has no such issue.
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 19, 2020 14:12:09 GMT
This one is really tough for me because I represent the old guard of opinion on this: I still believe Sgt Pepper has a solid claim on the greatest pop album of all time. So what's the problem? The other album I'd say has the best claim on that position is Pet Sounds.
With "ADITL" v "Surf's Up," I thought the Beach Boys were more technically dazzling without quite the emotional resonance the Beatles brought to their nominee. That no longer applies on these two albums, with PS as one of the most emotionally touching albums there has ever been. They're both magical. They're both technically wonderful. They're both loaded with great songs. They're both interesting in their arrangements and production. They're both really well performed, well sung. They're both hugely important both for their times and pop music thenceforth.
I've got to think about this. But my guess is that I won't be able to decide, and if I pick one, it'll just be along the lines of "well, I'd rather listen to [x] right now, so that's my choice."
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zinczag
The Surfer Moon
Posts: 151
Likes: 90
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Post by zinczag on Jun 19, 2020 16:03:56 GMT
Mega easy. Pet Sounds of course. That said, huge "Mr. Kite" fan. Very.
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