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Post by kds on Nov 2, 2023 17:54:06 GMT
I just listened a few minutes ago. No spoilers or specifics. I enjoyed it.
I did see that The Beatles online store has a CD single. It doesn't ship until Nov 17 though. But, I'm glad I don't have to buy The Blue Album again for one song.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Nov 2, 2023 19:07:13 GMT
Meh.
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 2, 2023 19:16:17 GMT
A couple things related to the press around the song. (Or should we just dive in? B.E. said he's going to avoid the thread until he listens. Are there many expected participants yet to at risk of being spoiled?) 1. Just today, I have read that the original demo was recorded in 1977, 1978, and 1979. For a band whose musicians have been so heavily scrutinized for so long, it's funny that there are different opinions here being stated definitively. 2. I shouldn't be surprised by Pitchfork anymore, but a story on the song by Mark Richardson says "And it’s slightly unnerving listening to “Now and Then” now and hearing something so personal and intimate blown up into a super-sized Beatles track, with strings and many layers of backing voices. The proportions feel off." Uh, I don't know. He does realize that original was a DEMO, after all. It's not as if John's releases were typically just piano and voice, etc. "Just Like Starting Over" has a little choir of background vocals. "Beautiful Boy (Darling Boy)" includes atop the typical instrumentation things like steelpan, keyboards, and a concertina. In fact, he references in that same paragraph, just prior to the afore-quoted, are "Woman" and "Watching the Wheels." Neither is quite "John Lennon: Unplugged." "Woman" actually has a load of background vocals and synth, not exactly so far from "strings and many layers of backing voices." I think maybe this just doesn't fit his ideal of what he thinks of Lennon, as opposed to the actual Lennon.
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Emdeeh
Pacific Coast Highway
Posts: 520
Likes: 532
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Post by Emdeeh on Nov 3, 2023 1:40:13 GMT
I turned on Sirius today, right in the middle of the new song. My first thought was "it's the Moody Blues," then I started recognizing Beatle voices. It is kind of prog (nothing wrong with prog either), but my general reaction after hearing it again is that I'm a bit underwhelmed. Maybe that's due to the baggage of growing up with the Beatles releasing music in real time, with too many expectations baked in. My opinion may change after multiple listens.
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Post by lonelysummer on Nov 3, 2023 2:13:39 GMT
I will probably buy the vinyl single eventually, but I'm not reacting to this the way I did to Free As A Bird. If it turns out to be a good recording, I'm cool with that. If it turns out to be worthless, it won't bother me. I've already been through the 'last new song by the Beatles' thing. Are you excited for the new red and blue albums, though? I thought you had been mentioning their absence in the past. I have an original 1973 1967/1970 pressing of the blue album on Apple; kind of crackly, but still listenable. If I was gonna replace one, that would be the one. I also have an original 70's Apple pressing (not sure of the year) of 1962-1966 in excellent shape. I also have Capitol pressings of both albums in red and blue vinyl. So no, I don't think I need to buy them again. If I did, I would opt for the cd versions. I think they did a real poor job of adding tracks to both. I recall Twist and Shout being added, but most of the others were kind of mid-le tvel tracks. For the red album, I would add: P.S. I Love You This Boy It Won't Be Long I Wanna Be Your Man Thank You Girl Long Tall Sally I Should Have Known Better If I Fell Things We Said Today Slow Down No Reply I'm a Loser Rock and Roll Music Yes it is I Need You You're Gonna Lose That Girl I've Just Seen a Face The Word And Your Bird Can Sing If I Needed Someone Here, There and Everywhere Good Day Sunshine Got to Get You Into My Life Can't think of much I would add to the blue album. As it is, it clocks in at well over 90 minutes. Maybe I couple more white album tracks, like Birthday.
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Post by jk on Nov 3, 2023 10:47:44 GMT
One listen was enough for me. Cloth ears and all that, but to me it could be anyone. It's not what I'll remember them for. The song's wiki raises some interesting points, noticeably George's feelings about John's demo recording. And Paul, when announcing the project's completion last June, even utters the dreaded words "artificial intelligence".
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 3, 2023 10:55:20 GMT
The song's wiki raises some interesting points, noticeably George's feelings about John's demo recording. And Paul, when announcing the project's completion last June, even utters the dreaded words "artificial intelligence". Those issues had been raised and discussed in the media around the time of the song's announcement, a few months ago. I don't think either is too big a deal. Re George, there is no doubt he's the one who stood in the way of completing the song in 1995ish. I've read that he didn't think it was much of a song--and I agree there, it's got some fine little bits, but it isn't much of a song--but that more importantly, he didn't think it was workable because of the mix issues and the hum in the original cassette. That leads us to the "AI," which I think needs some nuance. Paul and Ringo have both stated emphatically that there is no AI-created stuff, it's just that the extraction software uses AI. So John's voice is John's voice, it's not AI-created. I think that's a very key difference. Olivia and Dhani Harrison have both blessed the project, saying they think George would have been on board once this technology made possible the extraction to make a proper recording. (Ditto Yoko and Sean Lennon.) All that said, I agree it isn't a great song. But I'm glad to have it, and I certainly have no qualms about it. It's more "real" than 90% of the charts.
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Post by jk on Nov 3, 2023 11:10:56 GMT
The song's wiki raises some interesting points, noticeably George's feelings about John's demo recording. And Paul, when announcing the project's completion last June, even utters the dreaded words "artificial intelligence". Those issues had been raised and discussed in the media around the time of the song's announcement, a few months ago. I don't think either is too big a deal. Re George, there is no doubt he's the one who stood in the way of completing the song in 1995ish. I've read that he didn't think it was much of a song--and I agree there, it's got some fine little bits, but it isn't much of a song--but that more importantly, he didn't think it was workable because of the mix issues and the hum in the original cassette. That leads us to the "AI," which I think needs some nuance. Paul and Ringo have both stated emphatically that there is no AI-created stuff, it's just that the extraction software uses AI. So John's voice is John's voice, it's not AI-created. I think that's a very key difference. Olivia and Dhani Harrison have both blessed the project, saying they think George would have been on board once this technology made possible the extraction to make a proper recording. (Ditto Yoko and Sean Lennon.) All that said, I agree it isn't a great song. But I'm glad to have it, and I certainly have no qualms about it. It's more "real" than 90% of the charts. Many thanks for clarifying, Cap'n, not least on the "AI" aspect (perhaps I should have read the wiki a little more thoroughly). The song's not for me, but I hope this release gives some feeling of hope to many. It's the least you can ask of a song these days.
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 3, 2023 11:45:17 GMT
My thoughts on the song, so, spoiler alert.
I'm glad to have this new song, which I think fits nicely alongside "Free as a Bird" and "Real Love" both for better and for worse. That means it is nowhere near the peak of this greatest of bands' material ... but I can't imagine anyone in their right mind expected that it would.
It has, like they have, an asterisk next to it. How could it not? It wasn't written as a Beatles song, but as a John Lennon song almost a decade after the Beatles disbanded. That's a lot of water under the bridge. What's more, it wasn't even a song Lennon considered among his best, obviously, based on the fact that (again, like "Free as a Bird" and "Real Love") he did not use it. When he selected songs to record in the sessions that became Double Fantasy and Milk & Honey, these were not among those songs. None feel fully thought through, which was presumably one of the appeals: the surviving Beatles could finish them.
But one could argue in some ways they were too deferential, especially on "Now and Then." Once I listened, and listened to the demo, I am surprised Paul didn't write a bridge of some kind from scratch, yes, to boost his own input but also just to give the song something else. But it's a fine line. Had he done that, even if the song were better for it, he'd have caught hell. That is one of my bigger gripes: the dynamic that was unavoidable in these songs makes the other Beatles session musicians to John Lennon, not full Beatles.
Instead, Paul's fingerprints are mostly on the track, his voice limited basically to doubling John's. (And it is noticeable how old Paul sounds, even blended into the background, compared to a not-yet-40 John.) I actually could have used more Paul vocally, though I say that not having to hear the octogenarian results. Had they been there, I might say otherwise.
Speaking of youthful voices, that might be my biggest ... not gripe, exactly, but point of interest. Those perfectly Beatlesque "ahhh" background vocals are apparently lifted from other Beatles songs. "Here, There, And Everywhere," "Eleanor Rigby," and "Because" were mined for background vocals, hence those youthful, vibrant backgrounds instead of a Wall of (Old) Pauls. It's in arguably a more aesthetically pleasing result, but is it "fair"? That's not for me to say. Sure, it means it isn't really an authentic (whatever that means) Beatle song, but that's baked in when you're starting with a long-dead man's solo demo and giving it to his previous band to work on.
As for what's there, I mostly like it. I think they did more or less as good a job as is possible. The improvement based on the extraction is noticeable and fantastic. I wish they'd go back and do the same thing to "Free as a Bird" and "Real Love," actually. I don't mean remake them, but just perform that one exercise and remix what's there already from the '90s with that option. I don't love the strings, not because I don't approve of strings generally or anything, but just that I don't love them here. Otherwise I quite like what Ringo and (mostly) Paul did with the track.
But it's still polishing a, I won't say the usual object tacked on the end of that phrase, because it's not bad, but rather, maybe a piece of stone rather than a gem? A blemished gem? Forgive my weak metaphor, I ought to speak clearly: they took a nice, but seemingly incomplete and average song, and dressed it up pretty darn well. I wish it could have been done in the 90s, when there was a younger Paul and a living, vibrant George. But it couldn't, and it wasn't. However, it stands with those two songs from that era. I'm glad to have it.
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Post by kds on Nov 3, 2023 13:18:03 GMT
You and I are pretty simpatico on the new song.
I've probably listened 6-7 times. The first listen, I'll admit I got chills when Paul's voice came in.
I think the song has a nice melody overall.
I agree that I'd love a Peter Jackson remix of Free as a Bird and Real Love.
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Post by kds on Nov 3, 2023 17:56:23 GMT
The music video was released today. No spoiler, but definitely worth a watch.
Speaking of visuals, wow, for the final, last-ever, new song from The Beatles, the cover art is very blah. I think the best is actually the cassette which has the cover framed by a blue background with the iconic Beatles logo in white.
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 3, 2023 18:30:05 GMT
The music video was released today. No spoiler, but definitely worth a watch. Wow. I love it.
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 3, 2023 20:33:58 GMT
jk (and anyone, really), I saw that online music personality/educator (and former artist and producer) Rick Beato did a short video on the new Beatles single, and early on in the video he demonstrates how the AI extraction technology actually works. You might find it interesting. That section is all handled within the first three minutes of the video, so it isn't a major commitment.
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 3, 2023 22:45:34 GMT
Another interesting video about "Now and Then," this one comparing the demo to the new single.
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Post by jk on Nov 3, 2023 22:47:36 GMT
jk (and anyone, really), I saw that online music personality/educator (and former artist and producer) Rick Beato did a short video on the new Beatles single, and early on in the video he demonstrates how the AI extraction technology actually works. You might find it interesting. That section is all handled within the first three minutes of the video, so it isn't a major commitment. That's quite a revelation! I can understand just how useful that technology could be. And as you pointed out, nothing is being faked. Thanks for that, Cap'n.
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