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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jul 28, 2019 13:43:13 GMT
I should reply to a few replies. Rereply, if you will.
Today Side Two - don't misunderstand me, again, we're taking about overrated (not about being bad). As I see it, there are three great songs and three not-great songs. That's not even as good a percentage as side one, in my opinion.
After further review, the call on the field is overturned, Today! Side Two IS overrated, and The Kapitan will not be charged with a timeout. But SJS will!
I have to be consistent. In another thread, I docked Summer Days (And Summer Nights) points for the disappointing ending on Side 2. Well, Today! has a similar ending. SD&SN comes out firing on Side 2 with three aces, then kind of dovetails with the final three, shall we say, non-aces (though the "Summer Means New Love" and "And Your Dream Comes True" are pleasant enough).
I still think the biggest flaw of Today! is the fast side/slow side approach, but Today!'s Side 2 in particular echoes SD&SN's Side 2. You have four aces in this case, then the slightly disappointing "In The Back Of My Mind" and the ridiculous "Bull Session With The Bull Daddy". Weak. On a side note, I think "She Knows Me Too Well" should've ended either Side 1 or Side 2. A perfect "closing" song. Anyway, yes, Side 2 of Today! is overrated.
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Post by Kapitan on Jul 28, 2019 13:52:25 GMT
Shifting gears, having (sort of) moved the BBs lists to the BBs section.
These are my top 10 most overrated artists/bands. I'm trying to separate and not include those whose skills I do understand but just don't like, and instead only list those whose talents I truly just don't see to the degree that critics or the public do. My armor is thick, so I'm ready for you...
In no particular order.
Bob Marley The Clash Nirvana Neil Young Madonna Janis Joplin Tupac Shakur The Smiths
Kanye West Joy Division (and New Order, for that matter)
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Post by kds on Jul 28, 2019 14:01:17 GMT
I agree with all ten, even though Im a casual Neil Young fan. I'm also one of those dullards who puts Marley's Legend on in the background while day drinking in the summer or driving to the beach.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jul 28, 2019 14:15:09 GMT
Shifting gears, having (sort of) moved the BBs lists to the BBs section.
These are my top 10 most overrated artists/bands. I'm trying to separate and not include those whose skills I do understand but just don't like, and instead only list those whose talents I truly just don't see to the degree that critics or the public do. My armor is thick, so I'm ready for you...
In no particular order.
Nirvana Madonna Janis Joplin
Yes, I've thought Janis was a bit overrated for awhile. Distinctive voice and singer; yes, I would consider her great in that category. One of rock & roll's most interesting personalities. I haven't seen enough of her live performances (on video obviously). Maybe it was her choice of material, but I don't particularly...like...much of her music. I mean, it's good, but all-time great stuff? I never really cared for her version of "Me And Bobby McGee". I know that's blasphemy, but I prefer Kristofferson's and The Highwaymen's version, in addition to the individual Highwaymen's (Willie, Waylon, Johnny) versions. She's an example, I think, of a reputation/legend that was elevated because of her tragic ending. Often she is mentioned or lumped in with Jimi Hendrix and Jim Morrison - you know, Jimi, Janis, and Jim's deaths. But I don't think she has the catalogue to be compared with Jimi and Jim. Am I being too harsh here?
I'm a Nirvana and Kurt Cobain fan, but I'm not familiar enough with their entire catalogue to defend them or my opinion. I love their greatest hits, I will say that. I think Cobain was a great singer/songwriter, and I consider "Smells Like Teen Spirit" one of the best rock anthems of all time.
Agree on Madonna.
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Post by kds on Jul 28, 2019 14:23:17 GMT
Harsh assessment of Janis's legacy being inflated due to a young death? Perhaps, but I think it's true. I also feel that way about Kurt Cobain and Amy Whinehouse.
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Post by B.E. on Jul 28, 2019 14:44:43 GMT
Harsh assessment of Janis's legacy being inflated due to a young death? Perhaps, but I think it's true. I also feel that way about Kurt Cobain and Amy Whinehouse. It's only natural. Any popular artist whose career is cut short (especially by death) is going to get a legacy boost. Really, I can buy almost any popular artist as being overrated to some degree, because the few that make it to the top (or near the top) are listened to and praised for decades to come while their peers are forgotten. Only, were they really that much better than their peers. Probably not. On Kapitan's list, I'm a fan of Neil Young, Bob Marley, and (to lesser degree) Nirvana, but I think I agree that they're all overrated to varying degrees. Obviously, that doesn't affect my enjoyment of their music any. And, I still think they're good/great artists.
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Post by Kapitan on Jul 28, 2019 15:00:08 GMT
Harsh assessment of Janis's legacy being inflated due to a young death? Perhaps, but I think it's true. I also feel that way about Kurt Cobain and Amy Whinehouse. 100% true, as B.E. said, of pretty much every artist who was famous and died young. Of the much praised ones, I like a few, hated a few, and am ambivalent about most, frankly.
With Janis, I actually don't even think she's a particularly good singer. What always seemed to be the show stopper, getting applause, and with people praising her, were her song-interrupting, no-note screams. The occasional wail fits into blues, I fully realize that. But the ability to sometimes scream doesn't make someone a good singer. When she sang, she was fine. But not great. When she screamed, she was screaming. I think SJS is right that she was an interesting personality, and that's all well and good. But it doesn't make her a great artist by any means.
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Post by kds on Jul 29, 2019 12:33:56 GMT
Here are my tops for Top 10 Overrated Artists.
1. Nirvana
2. The Clash
3. The Sex Pistols
4. Pearl Jam
5. The Dave Matthews Band
6. Janis Joplin
7. Madonna
8. Lady Gaga
9. Green Day
10. U2
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Post by Kapitan on Jul 29, 2019 13:08:39 GMT
I thought about some of those too. Funny, while we have our unique tastes in “likes,” we sure dislike a lot of the same artists.
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Post by kds on Jul 29, 2019 13:18:58 GMT
I thought about some of those too. Funny, while we have our unique tastes in “likes,” we sure dislike a lot of the same artists. Ha. That's funny. I don't even necessarily dislike all of the artists I mentioned. I actually really like 80s U2, but I'm baffled at how they can still fill stadiums. And I've seen them live before, in 2005, and found them to be very underwhelming live, especially when they're considering to be such a great live act. Actually, I guess they're the only one. Save for a couple Green Day songs, I'm not really a fan of anyone else in my top 9.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jul 29, 2019 13:40:06 GMT
Here are my tops for Top 10 Overrated Artists. 4. Pearl Jam 5. The Dave Matthews Band Boring story alert...A few years ago, my two nieces (they're sisters) turned the tables on me. After many years of receiving numerous comps from me (on cassette and CD!) they decided to make two comps for me. My one niece made me a Dave Matthews comp. Out of respect and appreciation, I put that comp in my car CD player and played in continuously for about a week. I wanted to give enough time for the songs to become familiar and to grow on me. They didn't. I just did/do not like Dave Matthews' voice or his songs. I never understood what the fuss was about his music.
My other niece made me a comp of Pearl Jam including their hits and some of her personal favorites. Now, this one struck a chord. At that time, the only Pearl Jam songs that I was familiar with were "Jeremy" and "Even Flow". However, I gave this comp the same treatment as the Dave Matthews' one, and listened to it continuously in my car for about a week. And one by one, I really started to like these Pearl Jam songs. I think Eddie Vedder is a really good singer and lyricist, and Mike McCready is an excellent guitarist. They're a great band. This was some of the hardest rocking music I listened to in a while. It was definitely some of the newest. Some of my favorites include "Black", "Better Man", "Nothing Man", "Corduroy", "Alive", "I Wish", and their live versions of "Love Reign O'er Me" and "Rockin' In The Free World". I'd really like to see them live.
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Post by kds on Jul 29, 2019 13:47:40 GMT
Here are my tops for Top 10 Overrated Artists. 4. Pearl Jam 5. The Dave Matthews Band Boring story alert...A few years ago, my two nieces (they're sisters) turned the tables on me. After many years of receiving numerous comps from me (on cassette and CD!) they decided to make two comps for me. My one niece made me a Dave Matthews comp. Out of respect and appreciation, I put that comp in my car CD player and played in continuously for about a week. I wanted to give enough time for the songs to become familiar and to grow on me. They didn't. I just did/do not like Dave Matthews' voice or his songs. I never understood what the fuss was about his music.
My other niece made me a comp of Pearl Jam including their hits and some of her personal favorites. Now, this one struck a chord. At that time, the only Pearl Jam songs that I was familiar with were "Jeremy" and "Even Flow". However, I gave this comp the same treatment as the Dave Matthews' one, and listened to it continuously in my car for about a week. And one by one, I really started to like these Pearl Jam songs. I think Eddie Vedder is a really good singer and lyricist, and Mike McCready is an excellent guitarist. They're a great band. This was some of the hardest rocking music I listened to in a while. It was definitely some of the newest. Some of my favorites include "Black", "Better Man", "Nothing Man", "Corduroy", "Alive", "I Wish", and their live versions of "Love Reign O'er Me" and "Rockin' In The Free World". I'd really like to see them live. I've never been a fan of Eddie Vedder's vocals, or his vocal style, which seems to have been adopted by 90% of American male rock vocalists over the last 25 years. I actually cringe at his guest appearances with The Doors, The Who, or Roger Waters.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jul 29, 2019 13:58:08 GMT
Boring story alert...A few years ago, my two nieces (they're sisters) turned the tables on me. After many years of receiving numerous comps from me (on cassette and CD!) they decided to make two comps for me. My one niece made me a Dave Matthews comp. Out of respect and appreciation, I put that comp in my car CD player and played in continuously for about a week. I wanted to give enough time for the songs to become familiar and to grow on me. They didn't. I just did/do not like Dave Matthews' voice or his songs. I never understood what the fuss was about his music.
My other niece made me a comp of Pearl Jam including their hits and some of her personal favorites. Now, this one struck a chord. At that time, the only Pearl Jam songs that I was familiar with were "Jeremy" and "Even Flow". However, I gave this comp the same treatment as the Dave Matthews' one, and listened to it continuously in my car for about a week. And one by one, I really started to like these Pearl Jam songs. I think Eddie Vedder is a really good singer and lyricist, and Mike McCready is an excellent guitarist. They're a great band. This was some of the hardest rocking music I listened to in a while. It was definitely some of the newest. Some of my favorites include "Black", "Better Man", "Nothing Man", "Corduroy", "Alive", "I Wish", and their live versions of "Love Reign O'er Me" and "Rockin' In The Free World". I'd really like to see them live. I've never been a fan of Eddie Vedder's vocals, or his vocal style, which seems to have been adopted by 90% of American male rock vocalists over the last 25 years. I actually cringe at his guest appearances with The Doors, The Who, or Roger Waters. I've never seen Eddie with Roger Waters but I've seen The Doors and The Who ones. I really liked those. Eddie's obviously a fan, he makes no bones about it, and I think his...tributes...or love of those artists really shines through. I was very impressed by a televised performance of "Love Reign O'er Me". Eddie has the perfect voice for that song. Hey, I like him. I think he's great. I don't particularly care when he goes political...
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Post by kds on Jul 29, 2019 14:02:00 GMT
I've never been a fan of Eddie Vedder's vocals, or his vocal style, which seems to have been adopted by 90% of American male rock vocalists over the last 25 years. I actually cringe at his guest appearances with The Doors, The Who, or Roger Waters. I've never seen Eddie with Roger Waters but I've seen The Doors and The Who ones. I really liked those. Eddie's obviously a fan, he makes no bones about it, and I think his...tributes...or love of those artists really shines through. I was very impressed by a televised performance of "Love Reign O'er Me". Eddie has the perfect voice for that song. Hey, I like him. I think he's great. I don't particularly care when he goes political... Vedder appeared with Waters at the Hurricane Sandy benefit in 2012, and attempted to sing David Gilmour's vocal lines on Comfortably Numb.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jul 29, 2019 14:07:06 GMT
I've never seen Eddie with Roger Waters but I've seen The Doors and The Who ones. I really liked those. Eddie's obviously a fan, he makes no bones about it, and I think his...tributes...or love of those artists really shines through. I was very impressed by a televised performance of "Love Reign O'er Me". Eddie has the perfect voice for that song. Hey, I like him. I think he's great. I don't particularly care when he goes political... Vedder appeared with Waters at the Hurricane Sandy benefit in 2012, and attempted to sing David Gilmour's vocal lines on Comfortably Numb. Attempted? I can tell you weren't impressed. Hey, I can't make you like Eddie. Not gonna try. But...The Doors, The Who, Pink Floyd, Neil Young, and I've heard him cover Dylan...you gotta admit the guy has good taste.
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