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Post by Kapitan on Aug 30, 2023 19:07:16 GMT
Al Jardine, Blondie Chaplin, Brian Wilson, Bruce Johnston, Carl Wilson, David Marks, Dennis Wilson, Mike Love, and Ricky Fataar have been official Beach Boys. Nine people.
Yesterday I read a clickbaity article about the members of the Beach Boys' personal wealth. It included estimates for Brian, Mike, Bruce, Carl (as of his death), Dennis, Al, Scott Totten, John Cowsill, Jeff Foskett, Christian Love, and Keith Hubacher. Ignoring their actual estimates for wealth and the all-around awfulness of the article, their choices as to whom to include confused me. But at leat it did get me thinking about the official Beach Boys and some unofficial or potential ones.
So, the point of the thread...
A few other musicians have said they were asked to join the group but said no. Others have been hinted as being similarly situated. And there have been assorted longtime sidemen who arguably deserve to be considered.
What other musicians do you think should have been granted full band member status as official Beach Boys, as opposed to touring side musicians or otherwise contributors? Any? What criteria (other than the legal criteria of being made a "real" Beach Boy) would you include?
What do you think, is nine enough? Or should we be listing 10, 11, 12, or more Beach Boys?
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Emdeeh
Pacific Coast Highway
Posts: 520
Likes: 532
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Post by Emdeeh on Aug 30, 2023 20:58:10 GMT
Nine is quite enough. If you spend any time around the BBs, you learn that there are the principals (official Beach Boys) and the supporting musicians (aka the Beach Boys Band, Brian Wilson Band, Endless Summer Band members). Some of the latter, notably Billy Hinsche and Daryl Dragon, were asked to join as official BBs, but declined. There are a few guys I would consider closer to official, like Jeff Foskett and Scott Totten, designated as "vice-principals" on the reunion tour, and BB family members Billy Hinsche and Matt Jardine.
Then there's also Glen Campbell, but he's kind of an outlier temp BB imo, destined to follow (and become) his own star.
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Post by jk on Aug 30, 2023 21:06:16 GMT
Interesting idea, Cap'n, but I agree with Emdeeh.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 30, 2023 21:06:28 GMT
Some of the latter, notably Billy Hinsche and Daryl Dragon, were asked to join as official BBs, but declined. These were the two I expected might get some "votes." If Blondie and Ricky could be Beach Boys, I can see a person saying Billy and Daryl should have been.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 30, 2023 21:06:59 GMT
Interesting idea, Cap'n, but I agree with Emdeeh. I'm not pushing one perspective or another, so I don't care. A person could argue for 10 more, or 4 fewer. It's all the same to me. I just wanted to see some discussion on the subject. Or any subject!
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Aug 31, 2023 0:12:40 GMT
My answer is seven, with David Marks and Bruce Johnston as the only ones other than Brian, Dennis, Carl, Mike, and Al who I would designate as full member status during the band's history.
- I often think about - and wish - Glen Campbell would've been content in The Beach Boys and stayed with them. When Brian stopped singing after Friends in 1968, Glen could've picked up that slack wonderfully with a couple of lead vocals per album. Also, with his brilliant guitar playing, he could've contributed substantially to both the group's albums' arrangements and the live performances. They could've featured him! Just move Al over to bass and go with Carl and Glen on twin leads.
- I still do not think it was necessary or a good move to make Blondie Chaplin or Ricky Fataar official members. I would gladly exchange their songs and lead vocals with the other five Beach Boys. In my opinion, Blondie and Ricky didn't write "Beach Boys" music and they didn't sound like Beach Boys. Now, if you hired them to simply be backing musicians...fine. They might've been the best musicians the band ever had with their respective instruments. But, to make them official Beach Boys? No.
- After Blondie and Ricky left, I would've just reverted to Brian, Dennis, Carl, Mike, and Dennis (and later, Bruce) as The Beach Boys - and supplemented the band in the studio and on stage with the best musicians and singers possible - which is basically what they did. I had/have no problem with that.
- The longer the Mike and Bruce Beach Boys go on, the more I'm leaning toward just how much they've become almost a tribute band. Yes, I'm happy Bruce came back in 1978 and glad he stayed. But, let's be honest, his contribution or "moving the needle" is minor. He just does not make a significant contribution musically. His major contribution is being an original (but technically not original) Beach Boy. Also, it is crazy, just plain nuts, that BRI, per a vote, didn't insist on Al Jardine remaining in the touring band. As a longtime, diehard fan, that bothers me.
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Post by lonelysummer on Aug 31, 2023 1:30:30 GMT
I'd go with Billy Hinsche, Ed Carter, Daryl Dragon; about John Cowsill, Scott Totten, Ike, and .... . . . . . . . . John Stamos? Okay, shoot me!
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Emdeeh
Pacific Coast Highway
Posts: 520
Likes: 532
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Post by Emdeeh on Aug 31, 2023 1:48:18 GMT
Not one of the principals, but sort of supporting band* -- I prefer "special guest."
*As best as I can tell, the supporting band folks regard Stamos as one of their number.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 31, 2023 13:47:50 GMT
One thing that I think does weigh in Daryl Dragon's favor is, he was not only a key member of the touring band, but a cowriter. Only a few of his cowrites made it to proper albums, though: Dennis's two on CATP, "Make It Good" and "Cuddle Up." But of course he wrote more with Dennis that we've gotten on various archival releases through the years.
On the other hand, he had a relatively short association with the group, which could weigh against him.
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Post by kds on Sept 1, 2023 12:26:36 GMT
I think an argument could be made for Foskett, who was such a big part of many later day Beach Boys shows, and of course, the 2012 reunion. His high vocals are all over TWGMTR.
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 13, 2023 21:17:59 GMT
This one is a little more out-there, and I want to be clear I'm not saying I would have liked to see it happen. In fact, it almost certainly was never even a remote possibility, though I swear I've read that it was a possibility sometime circa 1970.
Alex Chilton, best known for his work as lead singer for the Box Tops in the '60s and Big Star in the early '70s.
My recollection (and this is just based on my memory of various books and stories I've read, so please don't take any of this as gospel) is that Chilton got to know the group around '66 or '67, when the Box Tops toured with the Beach Boys. We know there was at least some mutual admiration right away, with the BBs performing the BTs' "The Letter" in 1967. After Chilton left the Box Tops, around 1969-70, he spent some time in California and got much closer with both Carl and Dennis Wilson. [Here is where I believe I have read he was offered a spot in the band, but I honestly don't recall where I read it, and don't believe it.]
Chilton recorded a series of demos around this time, and there was apparently interest from Atlantic and, yes, Brother Records. But the details seem to vary with each telling. I've seen that Atlantic had offered, but he was holding out to get a formal offer from Brother. I've seen that both were just possibilities, with nothing concrete from either. I've seen that Atlantic offered, but he didn't like some details in the offer, and had been working on the possibility of a Brother release but it just dragged on so long that he moved on to Big Star and forgot about it.
Eventually he went on to form acclaimed and influential, but wildly unsuccessful, Big Star. And then he went on to a similar solo career, where his self-destructive behavior calls to mind a few Beach Boys. Throughout the '70s and onward until his death in 2010, Alex Chilton covered a lot of Beach Boys tunes both on albums and in the studio, including things like "Wouldn't It Be Nice," "Honkin Down the Highway," "Solar System," "I Wanna Pick You Up," "Don't Worry Baby," and "Surfer Girl."
Even if he really had been a candidate to join the band circa 1970, I'm not sure how it could have worked stylistically. And I'm sure Mike Love and Alex Chilton would have been, shall we say, less than good friends. So the point of this post isn't really to either support the idea or even suggest the legitimate possibility, but rather just to note the curious relationship between Chilton and the group, and to contemplate how odd such a pairing might have been.
(From an unfinished version of Big Star's cover of "Don't Worry Baby," cued up to when there are some vocals coming in.)
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Post by lonelysummer on Oct 14, 2023 17:45:14 GMT
I've been hearing about Big Star since the 80's. A friend said "you like Badfinger, you'd like Big Star" and played me a cd of theirs. Nope.
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 14, 2023 17:55:57 GMT
I like Big Star. (I actually barely know, much less have a strong opinion on, Badfinger. My main reaction to what I know is that they're fine. I do keep meaing to listen to them more.)
But I don't worship them. For some people, they're as great a Bs-band as Beatles, Beach Boys, or Byrds. Not me.
I think Chris Bell was good, though I think his I Am the Cosmos solo album is about as overrated as I do Dennis's Pacific Ocean Blue. Chilton, I think was very talented. But speaking of Dennis Wilson (and shades of Brian), I think Chilton was extremely self-destructive. His attitude was almost a template for GenX, with the air of not caring about his own legacy, not being willing to stand up for his own music, constantly projecting a "whatever, I don't care either way" sort of vibe about both his recorded and live music. It really smacks of supreme insecurity: "I won't let you hurt me by disliking it; I didn't care anyway, I was just fucking around..."
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Oct 14, 2023 18:21:12 GMT
Big Star is (re)releasing a quasi-Christmas EP:
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 14, 2023 18:35:44 GMT
One of those strange moments in rock music where I think people read in some kind of cynicism or comment that might not be there. Here's a brief article from The Atlantic about this song. Another song I think of in that way is the late '90s song from Neutral Milk Hotel, " King of Carrot Flowers, Pts 2 & 3." The occasionally impenetrable (but often very straightforward and literal) songwriter Jeff Mangum responded to questions about the intro by saying it was really just straightforward and sincere. Nothing more to it. Anyway, Chilton was a master (if that's the right word) for that kind of thing: something pretty, something touching, but he's sticking out his tongue or giving somebody bunny-ears to make sure the picture's ruined.
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