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Post by Kapitan on Jun 2, 2023 12:05:00 GMT
The Postcards best/worst song discussion had me thinking about guest artists, which a little more broadly got me thinking about various ... I don't want to say tricks, but maybe tools of the trade. Things artists do at different times for different reasons. Things that come in and out of fashion. I thought maybe a running thread with themes occasionally rotating through various of those tools might be interesting, so here it is.
No strict structure or timeline on this thread. I'll just switch to another "tool of the trade" when something occurs to me (or you! Just let me know and I'll switch up the thread title) or as discussion dies down on one.
Featured Guest Artists The first topic, based on the thread's inspiration, is something that has gone from an occasional to a seemingly inescapable, omnipresent thing: tracks whose song titles you're going to see followed by "(Feat. [name])." Yes, it's guest artists.
I don't remember guest artists being all that big a thing when I was young. There were collaborations, of course, some of them very popular. Paul McCartney and Michael Jackson, and McCartney and Stevie Wonder were two combos who had big hits in my earlier days. Queen and David Bowie were another such pairing. Obviously as the '80s wore on, there were some big ones, like the Beastie Boys with Run-DMC on "Walk This Way," and our very own Beach Boys with the Fat Boys on "Wipeout" in a less well regarded effort. Going back to what was already classic rock by the time I came up, you had Clapton on the Beatles' "While My Guitar Gently Weeps," and Sandy Denny on Led Zeppelin's "The Battle of Evermore."
But it does seem to be very, very common now--especially in rap. I just checked iTunes' top 15 rap songs, and 6 include a featured guest. I can't speak to what the motivations were in the earlier days of rock and pop, but it seems now it's often a marketing decision first and foremost: bringing separate audiences together, or revitalizing a flagging artist's appeal (an artist who happens to be under the same corporate umbrella, naturally!).
What do you think of songs featuring guest artists? Any real favorites? Any major clunkers? In general, do you think they help or hurt an artist's work (or can't that even be generalized)?
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 2, 2023 12:47:33 GMT
I think guest artists work best when they are recruited for the right reason(s). If a songwriter or producer or musician thinks - "You know, so-and-so would work great with this part" or "I think so-and-so would add a lot to this song" - I have no problem with that, when a guest artist is brought in for totally musical reasons. Sometimes I think you can tell or get the feeling that a guest artist was brought in for publicity reasons or to attract attention. I think that became more prevalent in the 80s and 90s when videos became so important. You got the double whammy - the song and the visual.
Also, there's nothing wrong with musicians bringing their friends or peers or idols in for larger parts or even smaller parts if it simply adds to the atmosphere or contributes to the "feeling" in the studio. Hey, go for it. Recording is supposed to be fun, relaxed, intense, focused, inspirational, whatever. Whatever works. It's up to the artist.
One example, a Beach Boys-related example, that I think worked out well was Chicago's recording of "Wishing You Were Here".
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 2, 2023 12:55:47 GMT
I think guest artists work best when they are recruited for the right reason(s). If a songwriter or producer or musician thinks - "You know, so-and-so would work great with this part" or "I think so-and-so would add a lot to this song" - I have no problem with that, when a guest artist is brought in for totally musical reasons. Sometimes I think you can tell or get the feeling that a guest artist was brought in for publicity reasons or to attract attention. I think that became more prevalent in the 80s and 90s when videos became so important. You got the double whammy - the song and the visual.
Also, there's nothing wrong with musicians bringing their friends or idols in for larger parts or even smaller parts if it simply adds to the atmosphere or contributes to the "feeling" in the studio. Hey, go for it. Recording is supposed to be fun, relaxed, intense, focused, inspirational, whatever. Whatever works. It's up to the artist.
One example, a Beach Boys-related example, that I think worked out well was Chicago's recording of "Wishing You Were Here".
I agree with all this. And it seems to me--I could be wrong, but it just seems to me--that older guest spots often had more to do with musicians being friends and wanting to work (or really, play) together. In fact, as I'm sure many know, a lot of old guest spots actually weren't publicized at all, or musicians would have to use fake names on their guest spots, because there were legal issues with the labels. In those cases, it was obviously, "hey, we're in the studio, you should come down and play on this!" and they'd just figure out the credits and legalities and payments later. With major-label music, anyway, it definitely doesn't seem to work that way now.
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Post by jk on Jun 2, 2023 14:34:58 GMT
Great idea for a thread, Cap'n. As you say, after a while everyone was doing it. I'm more interested in digging out examples from the 1950s and '60s.
How about The Robins' "Riot In Cell Block #9" from 1954? Leiber and Stoller had signed The Robins to their newly formed Spark Records label, which they'd co-founded with Lester Sill. They'd written "Riot" for the vocal quartet but decided lead singer Bobby Nunn didn't sound nasty enough, so they brought in Richard Berry, who later wrote "Louie Louie" (that's two Beach Boys connections already), to sing lead, as his voice was perfect for the job. The Robins were none too happy about the arrangement; while Berry rasped (almost rapped) the verses, Nunn and co merely bellowed the refrain in unison. Still, the song was credited to The Robins alone; Berry was really just a session musician like the backing band. "Pass the dynamite ‘cause the fuse is lit" -- heavy stuff for its time!
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 2, 2023 15:02:22 GMT
Still, the song was credited to The Robins alone; Berry was really just a session musician like the backing band. Exactly, and doesn't it seem that tended to be the way it went in those days? Uncredited contributions. It seems you didn't often see "the Beatles, feat. Eric Clapton (or Billy Preston)," "the Beach Boys, feat. Dean Torrence," etc. Those people were just on the records. Can anyone think of examples of that "featuring..." credit on a song from the '60s? Something where it was printed on the record or in the liner notes that way?
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Post by kds on Jun 2, 2023 17:31:43 GMT
Jimmy Buffett had a "comeback" of sorts thanks to guesting on Alan Jackson's "It's Five O Clock Somewhere" in 2003.
I put "comeback" in quotes because Buffett's always been a big concert draw, and he's sold a ton of albums. But, he had a 25 year drought of "hit" songs.
The Jackson hit has country crossover appeal and was a big hit 20 summers ago. Suddenly, Jimmy Buffett was back in the mainstream, and rode that momentum to his first #1 album the following year with License to Chill.
Despite being Alan Jackson featuring Jimmy Buffett, the song tends to be attributed more to Buffett. Its been a JB concert staple, and the "It's Five O Clock Sonewhere" slogan has become a mainstay on his merch.
Going back a ways, Pink Floyd let label mate Roy Harper sing Have a Cigar on their 1975 album Wish You Were Here. David Gilmour didn't want to sing the "complaining" lyrics, and Roger Waters thought it might be out of his range. While Harper receives credit on the album, it wasn't released as a single and you almost never hear Classic Rock DJs mention Harper's name when back or front selling it.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 3, 2023 11:56:04 GMT
You gotta give Elton John credit. He never forgot his musical heroes and was always quick to recognize and praise them. In 1974-75, when Elton was arguably at his commercial peak, he was out there guesting with some great ones, two of them being John Lennon and Neil Sedaka. Lennon and Sedaka were on different career trajectories at that time. Lennon was in a bit of a slump while Sedaka was in the midst of a career comeback. Elton John was right there with 'em, recording singles with them...uncredited.
Lennon's "Whatever Gets You Through The Night" was his only U.S. #1 single during his lifetime, topping the charts in late 1974. Sedaka's "Bad Blood" also went to #1 in late 1975 (ironically being replaced at #1 by Elton John's "Island Girl"). It's hard to tell how much Elton John's association with those two single contributed to their commercial success. I guess it was significant. It wasn't so much Elton's actual vocal contributions. On both singles, he is in the background somewhat, not really singing lines by himself. He is mostly singing in unison (with Lennon) or interjecting answer/response phrases (as in "Bad Blood" with Sedaka). Oh, you can hear him alright, but he wasn't "the star" of the song. As I mentioned, he wasn't even credited on the records, but I distinctly remember those singles being played on the radio and the DJs were quick to mention Elton's involvement.
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Post by jk on Jun 3, 2023 13:08:16 GMT
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 3, 2023 13:15:26 GMT
Yes, that would be along those lines ... but I should have added the caveat of "in rock" (or pop). I see this is categorized as jazz, and I think this phenomenon was much more popular there. I definitely have lots of albums from the '50s at least (maybe '40s) with such credits. I wonder if this one counts: The Velvet Underground & Nico. It's on the fence, because she wasn't really in the band, but she wasn't exactly credited as not in the band, as featured. She was just set alongside the Velvet Underground. (I actually don't know how people took it at the time, either. Was it assumed that was the band--The Velvet Underground & Nico--or did they see it as a band plus a featured guest singer? But at least based on my admittedly haphazard consideration these past few days, that's the earliest thing I can think of along these lines in rock music.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 3, 2023 13:44:15 GMT
On Aerosmith's "Train Kept A-Rollin'" from Get Your Wings, the lead guitar work is not done by Joe Perry or Brad Whitford. The first half, the slower half, is played by Steve Hunter, and the second half, the faster half, is played by Dick Wagner.
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 3, 2023 13:51:55 GMT
On Aerosmith's "Train Kept A-Rollin'" from Get Your Wings, the lead guitar work is not done by Joe Perry or Brad Whitford. The first half, the slower half, is played by Steve Hunter, and the second half, the faster half, is played by Dick Wagner. Those guys were everywhere in the '70s! And it seems often uncredited to replace incapacitated guitarists of the bands in question. Wagner was also "featured" on some Kiss recordings, at least on Destroyer ... if filling in on an uncredited basis for a wasted Ace Frehley counts as featured. Which it seems was the same situation more or less with Aerosmith. It's actually sad that the real Aerosmith guitarists didn't appear on that song, considering I know it was kind of their thing, one of the tunes they built the band around.
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Post by kds on Jun 3, 2023 15:28:44 GMT
Speaking of Elton, he scored a late career hit last year with a song called Cold Heart, featuring Dua Lipa.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 3, 2023 16:08:24 GMT
Speaking of Elton, he scored a late career hit last year with a song called Cold Heart, featuring Dua Lipa. I actually like that song. It's probably the newest "new" song I can say that about, and what is it, two years old already.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 3, 2023 17:57:00 GMT
This thread, of course, led me to The Beach Boys and, specifically, Brian Wilson - even more specifically, his solo career. Here's one for your summer listening!
Brian Wilson - Guests...You Had To Be There!
01 In My Room (Carnie & Wendy Wilson) 02 I'm Into Something Good (Carole King) 03 Little Deuce Coupe (Brian Setzer) 04 City Blues (Eric Clapton) 05 On The Island (She & Him) 06 Guess You Had To Be There (Kacey Musgraves) 07 A Friend Like You (Paul McCartney) 08 How Could We Still Be Dancing (Elton John) 09 Soul Searchin' (Carl Wilson) 10 Long Promised Road (Blondie Chaplin & Jim James) 11 Our Special Love (Peter Hollens) 12 The Right Time (Al Jardine)
13 Saturday Night (Nate Reuss) 14 You Are So Beautiful (Carnie Wilson)
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Post by kds on Jun 4, 2023 0:57:54 GMT
Speaking of Elton, he scored a late career hit last year with a song called Cold Heart, featuring Dua Lipa. I actually like that song. It's probably the newest "new" song I can say that about, and what is it, two years old already.
More power to Elton, and maybe the song will entice some younger fans to check out his music. But, I thought Cold Heart was pretty bad. It sounds like a mash up of Sacrifice and Rocket Man over a dance beat.
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