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Post by jk on Dec 7, 2021 10:04:11 GMT
Well. I swallowed hard and gave the soundtrack a concentrated listen last night -- and was very very pleasantly surprised.
I found it heart-warming in the way that OCA is heart-warming.
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 7, 2021 12:37:16 GMT
Not only is it a different vocal, but it also sounds like a different backing track. Apparently, a backing track was done for what was considered at the time a beach boys version in 1995, so this might be that backing track. As for the vocal, just going off the way it sounds and the fact that you’re still a mystery was also re-recorded vocally as a previous poster said, I think 1999 is probably a good bet. It makes sense that "Must Be a Miracle" was considered for the Beach Boys. I don't think it's a great song, but it's a good one and it's pretty easy to imagine them as doing it pretty well.
I realize some are huge fans of the Wilson/Paley sessions in general and seem to think all that stuff is great. I disagree with that, but there are more than enough tunes there to have helped along either a Wilson solo album or a Beach Boys album, in my opinion. That they were properly recorded and released individually or a few at a time across 25 years (so far) does them a disservice.
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Post by bellesofparisstan on Dec 7, 2021 14:30:03 GMT
Personally I think the Wilson/Paley sessions are Brians best moment as a solo artist, the last time Brian sounded like the guy who completed the Beach boys love you. Paley is really one of the only collaborators that Brian has had in the last 30 years that I feel like really got him. Would literally any of his other collaborators let him have recorded something as insane as I’m broke, and also put something together as amazing as soul-searchin? I don’t think so.
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 7, 2021 14:46:02 GMT
Personally I think the Wilson/Paley sessions are Brians best moment as a solo artist, the last time Brian sounded like the guy who completed the Beach boys love you. Paley is really one of the only collaborators that Brian has had in the last 30 years that I feel like really got him. Would literally any of his other collaborators let him have recorded something as insane as I’m broke, and also put something together as amazing as soul-searchin? I don’t think so. I think the best of those sessions are right up there among his best solo work, too. No doubt in terms of songwriting and eneregy, especially. (The worst of those aren't, though. It's a mixed bag.) But I also don't know whether those results were so much Paley "getting Wilson" (though that might be true, too--I'm not saying it's NOT true, just that I don't know it IS true), "letting him" do something like "I'm Broke." It could be as simple as not having a recording contract or a project to complete, and thus no commercial implications or pressure. But they also were friendly, and that had to help.
(Of course they also had a falling out, I believe. I never did learn anything about that. I remember vague hints from the sorts of BBs online people who like dropping vague hints publicly. But that's a standard Wilson move, too: get chummy with someone, work with them, then drop them and move on to someone else.)
For example, we don't know that Paley thought "I'm Broke" was an album-worthy song; he may well have just thought it was something Brian was into, so why not screw around and get it on tape?
As for "Soul Searchin," I don't know. It's fine, but I don't hear it as all that amazing. (Don't get me wrong, I count it as among the better Paley sessions songs, and think it should have been a Beach Boys song.) It's relatively formulaic, so I don't see why somebody like a Sahanaja or Bennett/Harrison or Was or Lynne couldn't have come up with it, either. But the truth is that Paley did come up with it, so there's no arguing that.
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 18, 2021 15:01:10 GMT
Out of curiosity, for those of you who have given this a few listens, which new song do you like best? (Not counting the remakes.) We havae "Right Where I Belong," "Honeycomb," and "Rock & Roll Has Got a Hold On Me."
I ask because I keep waffling between them. I think both the best and worst moments are in RWIB, making it hard to rate. The other two are both pretty basic fare, but have their charms.
That said, I think I enjoy listening to those more than anything else on the soundtrack. Maybe it's just because they're the only truly new material (though because my old Paley boots didn't have "I'm Goin Home," I wasn't familiar with that before, either), and the remakes don't do much for me. (I do like the live "In My Room," too. But I don't really pay it much attention.)
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Post by kds on Dec 18, 2021 16:00:28 GMT
Other than some breaks to listen to the weekly Beatles selections, I've pretty much been in Christmas music mode. But, after Saturday, I'll probably take more time to listen to this.
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Post by lonelysummer on Dec 19, 2021 4:11:40 GMT
Personally I think the Wilson/Paley sessions are Brians best moment as a solo artist, the last time Brian sounded like the guy who completed the Beach boys love you. Paley is really one of the only collaborators that Brian has had in the last 30 years that I feel like really got him. Would literally any of his other collaborators let him have recorded something as insane as I’m broke, and also put something together as amazing as soul-searchin? I don’t think so. Maybe that's why i never warmed up to most of that stuff; just as I've never understood all the love for Love You.
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Post by bellesofparisstan on Dec 19, 2021 16:54:58 GMT
Personally I think the Wilson/Paley sessions are Brians best moment as a solo artist, the last time Brian sounded like the guy who completed the Beach boys love you. Paley is really one of the only collaborators that Brian has had in the last 30 years that I feel like really got him. Would literally any of his other collaborators let him have recorded something as insane as I’m broke, and also put something together as amazing as soul-searchin? I don’t think so. I think the best of those sessions are right up there among his best solo work, too. No doubt in terms of songwriting and eneregy, especially. (The worst of those aren't, though. It's a mixed bag.) But I also don't know whether those results were so much Paley "getting Wilson" (though that might be true, too--I'm not saying it's NOT true, just that I don't know it IS true), "letting him" do something like "I'm Broke." It could be as simple as not having a recording contract or a project to complete, and thus no commercial implications or pressure. But they also were friendly, and that had to help.
(Of course they also had a falling out, I believe. I never did learn anything about that. I remember vague hints from the sorts of BBs online people who like dropping vague hints publicly. But that's a standard Wilson move, too: get chummy with someone, work with them, then drop them and move on to someone else.)
For example, we don't know that Paley thought "I'm Broke" was an album-worthy song; he may well have just thought it was something Brian was into, so why not screw around and get it on tape?
As for "Soul Searchin," I don't know. It's fine, but I don't hear it as all that amazing. (Don't get me wrong, I count it as among the better Paley sessions songs, and think it should have been a Beach Boys song.) It's relatively formulaic, so I don't see why somebody like a Sahanaja or Bennett/Harrison or Was or Lynne couldn't have come up with it, either. But the truth is that Paley did come up with it, so there's no arguing that.
Paley didn’t fall out with Brian, Brian was pushed away from him by the people around him towards Joe Thomas, who they thought could give him more commercial prospects. Paley was heavily involved with Brian from 1987-1995, was all over his first solo record, and then apparently they worked quite a bit again between 2004 and 2009, most of which is still unreleased and unbooted.
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 19, 2021 17:28:30 GMT
First, I want to reiterate I'm just repeating what I recall people who tend to have inside knowledge of these things saying years ago.
But exactly within that period you mentioned--and I think specifically the latter part of it--is when whatever happened, happened. How serious, whose issues exactly, what the issues were, that was never clarified, because it was all in that typical "if I say it I won't be trusted in the future" sort of way that anyone on a BBs board is familiar with from these sorts of people (and of course there's wisdom in that approach).
It seems to me that if the "issues" were just people pushing toward Thomas for a more polished style, I don't think that would have warranted the dramatic approach. But I don't know there was anything to hint about, either, so that dramatic approach might have been all about quite literally nothing.
This is all just third-party reporting I'm doing (mostly because it was annoying in those years to read things like "there is a reason he doesn't work with Paley anymore" or "there's a lot more I could say about that, but..." back then). Am I the only old-timer who remembers this? Sheriff John Stone?
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Dec 19, 2021 18:05:58 GMT
First, I want to reiterate I'm just repeating what I recall people who tend to have inside knowledge of these things saying years ago.
But exactly within that period you mentioned--and I think specifically the latter part of it--is when whatever happened, happened. How serious, whose issues exactly, what the issues were, that was never clarified, because it was all in that typical "if I say it I won't be trusted in the future" sort of way that anyone on a BBs board is familiar with from these sorts of people (and of course there's wisdom in that approach).
It seems to me that if the "issues" were just people pushing toward Thomas for a more polished style, I don't think that would have warranted the dramatic approach. But I don't know there was anything to hint about, either, so that dramatic approach might have been all about quite literally nothing.
This is all just third-party reporting I'm doing (mostly because it was annoying in those years to read things like "there is a reason he doesn't work with Paley anymore" or "there's a lot more I could say about that, but..." back then). Am I the only old-timer who remembers this? Sheriff John Stone ?
I think you're you're pretty spot-on there^. It was vague and murky trying to navigate through the Wilson/Paley era.
If I may speculate for a minute - and I stand to be corrected because I haven't read the article in a long time - but I did read an interview with Andy Paley (I don't even remember the year of the interview), and while Andy was very positive about what he and Brian wrote/recorded, he also - and he we go again - sounded frustrated and bitter at the way things ended. I seem to recall, for some reason, there was reluctance by The Beach Boys to record the songs, and I believe Andy was also upset because he didn't get the (enough?) credit for his contributions to the songs, of which Andy thought were significant, and sometimes much more significant than Brian's. I don't know if that led to their parting or it was just Andy venting year's later.
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 19, 2021 18:30:25 GMT
The time I'm talking about isn't the actual end of the Paley years themselves, but later chatter (early to mid '00s) about that era. That's when voices chattered mysteriously. As I said, they might have been full of it, but they were prominent voices. Anyway maybe I'm exaggerating it in my old age, thinking back.
All that said, back to the point, yes, the Paley era had some strong material. And it's a real shame neither the Beach Boys nor Brian set to work on finishing an album of it properly at the time. A lot of those songs ended up coming out here, there, and everywhere. In some cases probably as good as the originals, but in some, not.
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Post by lonelysummer on Dec 19, 2021 21:52:44 GMT
I don't believe Brian ever has a falling out with anyone. It's the "handlers" that decide "you should work with someone else instead". And Brian, having been through a lifetime of battles in his 20s and 30s, just says "okay, whatever it takes to keep things cool here."
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Post by jk on Dec 19, 2021 22:06:59 GMT
All that said, back to the point, yes, the Paley era had some strong material. And it's a real shame neither the Beach Boys nor Brian set to work on finishing an album of it properly at the time. A lot of those songs ended up coming out here, there, and everywhere. In some cases probably as good as the originals, but in some, not.
Sounds familiar!
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Post by kds on Dec 20, 2021 15:59:41 GMT
I have to say that I'm with Lonelysummer on this one in that I don't think the Brian / Paley material is all that great. I'll gladly take the Joe Thomas and Scott Bennett collaborations that we got later on over more Paley material.
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 31, 2021 13:38:24 GMT
Temporarily moving this to the main forum so it gets more eyes. I think this could move to its permanent home in the albums forum now, since the general convo on it has subsided, and lest it sink, forgotten, never to return.
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