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Post by Kapitan on Mar 22, 2019 14:26:03 GMT
The Rolling Stone article about the Beach Boys end-of-the-tour breakup in 1977 (ending of course with them getting back together within days) was on my mind the other day as I was writing about M.I.U. and L.A. (Light Album). So in that vein, I wanted to ask two questions of anyone interested in responding:
1) How do you wish that situation had resolved itself?
2) Realistically, deep down, what do you truly believe would have happened had the breakup stuck with the Beach Boys truly ending in 1977?
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Post by eraserheadbaby on Mar 22, 2019 15:44:41 GMT
I suppose Dennis and Carl would go on to form a duo together
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Post by Kapitan on Mar 22, 2019 15:55:39 GMT
I was going to write a big, long hypothetical about things, but really kept circling around to a few different variables. But in short I do think we'd have had two two-and-a-half member entities. I can imagine Brian waffling between the two. A legal fight over the name The Beach Boys. (If Mike and Al didn't get it, they'd have faded quickly, I think.) And probably at least one earlier Wilson brother's death. (I also don't think the Wilson brothers were on the same page musically at the time.)
But in short, I'm not sure that the narrative we hear sometimes about the Wilsons pulling away to save the band (or make a new band) would have been some heroic, artistic success. I think it might well have been chaos.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Mar 22, 2019 20:02:57 GMT
1) I'm glad things got resolved and The Beach Boys continued on because they provided many happy moments in the ensuing four decades, despite fairly continuous bickering.
2) If things didn't work out, I think there would've been a Beach Boys touring band, much like today, with Mike and Al leading the way. I think Mike would've tried to fill that third or fourth spot on stage with another "Beach Boy", maybe David Marks or Bruce Johnston, or even a permanent "major" member/performer like a Jeff Foskett or Adrian Baker or somebody like that. I think Brian, Dennis, and Carl would've tried the solo route, and Dennis and Carl's solo careers would've ended up exactly as they did anyway. Who knows with Brian. His solo career might've/probably ended up the same way, too. There really is no way to tell. I do think Dr. Landy would've been called back regardless.
I don't think Brian, Dennis, and Carl would've worked together or formed a band like The Wilson Brothers. While they might've loved each other, I'm not sure they liked each other, certainly not enough to spend significant time together. I mean, did they ever?
The Beach Boys probably would've reunited somewhere down the road. There were plenty of one-off concerts and festivals and charity events which would've provided the opportunity. I can also see some promoter offering a lot of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ which would've been to hard to turn down. That also includes anniversary-type projects - maybe a freak single here or a quasi-reunion album there. $$$$$$$$$$$$ would always be a driving force to do...something.
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Post by B.E. on Mar 25, 2019 0:04:10 GMT
What I find most interesting (incredibly so!) about the prospect of the Beach Boys breaking up in September of '77 is what it would mean for Dennis. If the guys truly believed that the Beach Boys were over (record contracts and touring revenue be damned), I think the likelihood of the POB tour taking place and Bambu being completed is significantly increased. Let me be clear that I don't think Dennis' overall trajectory would change. I doubt he'd have completed the 3rd album of his record deal. But in the immediate aftermath of the breakup? He wouldn't need to choose between his solo career and the Beach Boys. Carl and the rest of the touring band would be free to support him. What else would he do for a living? He still had it together enough, in late '77, to dive head first into these projects (he had already started them). Now, his problems wouldn't have gone away. I think he still would have struggled mightily to tour as solo artist, but perhaps with Carl and Bruce as guest vocalist and the rest of the band thoroughly rehearsed, he could have completed a few short tours. If there was documentation of the tour (footage/album) and Bambu was completed, then that alone would have made for a more memorable 1978 than the Beach Boys were able to produce as a whole. Ultimately, the Beach Boys were getting back together no matter what. It was inevitable. In the meantime, I think it could have been good for them to breakup.
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Post by Kapitan on Mar 25, 2019 0:21:31 GMT
I think he still would have struggled mightily to tour as solo artist, but perhaps with Carl and Bruce as guest vocalist and the rest of the band thoroughly rehearsed, he could have completed a few short tours. ... Ultimately, the Beach Boys were getting back together no matter what. It was inevitable. I totally agree with the latter part of what I quoted: they would have gotten together eventually regardless. I don't know when, but let's be serious: how many legacy bands with a serious reputation whose members weren't largely dead didn't get together at some point in the 80s, 90s, 00s, or 10s? The Beatles are the obvious answer, with one man down. And then it became two down. But most do what I'm sure the Beach Boys would have done, which is reunite.
But your first point, what makes you think Bruce would have been a part of Dennis's solo work? That seems like an unusual pairing to me. Or was Bruce more a champion in the late 70s of Dennis than I'm aware of? (Seems to me he'd always have been on Team MikeAndAl.)
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Post by B.E. on Mar 25, 2019 0:38:32 GMT
I think he still would have struggled mightily to tour as solo artist, but perhaps with Carl and Bruce as guest vocalist and the rest of the band thoroughly rehearsed, he could have completed a few short tours. ... Ultimately, the Beach Boys were getting back together no matter what. It was inevitable. I totally agree with the latter part of what I quoted: they would have gotten together eventually regardless. I don't know when, but let's be serious: how many legacy bands with a serious reputation whose members weren't largely dead didn't get together at some point in the 80s, 90s, 00s, or 10s? The Beatles are the obvious answer, with one man down. And then it became two down. But most do what I'm sure the Beach Boys would have done, which is reunite.
Not only that, but I think it would have happened within 12-18 months. They were all having personal issues and/or serious financial troubles in the late '70s-early '80s despite the lucrative record contracts and touring revenue. Which is probably the main reason they got back together after... two weeks. But your first point, what makes you think Bruce would have been a part of Dennis's solo work? That seems like an unusual pairing to me. Or was Bruce more a champion in the late 70s of Dennis than I'm aware of? (Seems to me he'd always have been on Team MikeAndAl.)
In Ken Sharp's book, page 253, there's a scan of a document dated 10/31/77 which includes, "Wilson said he'll have a 13-piece band, with 6 violinists and 6 hornplayers. Guest vocalists will be Carl Wilson and Bruce Johnston." You may recall that Bruce also sang on "End Of The Show". Edit: Kapitan There's also mention of a television performance to be taped at Brother Studios. So, my wish of footage wasn't totally make-believe.
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Post by Kapitan on Mar 26, 2019 12:30:27 GMT
I guess I was thinking more that if there were a formal fracture, and the inevitable factions, that Bruce seems unlikely to go with Dennis. But maybe.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Mar 26, 2019 12:51:27 GMT
It's interesting what would've happened with Bruce Johnston's career because he wasn't back with The Beach Boys in September 1977. Would've he reconnected with them? With which one(s)?
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Post by Kapitan on Mar 26, 2019 12:56:32 GMT
It may well have depended on the exact nature of any collaboration.
For lifestyle reasons, you’d guess he would have sided with Mike/Al for any permanent or long-term association, especially on the road.
For musical reasons, it’s clear that Bruce always greatly respected Brian above all. And based on his involvement with Dennis around then, presumably he appreciated his talent as well.
Then there are financial reasons. What would the terms of any offer be?
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Mar 26, 2019 13:36:49 GMT
Not only that, but I think it would have happened within 12-18 months. They were all having personal issues and/or serious financial troubles in the late '70s-early '80s despite the lucrative record contracts and touring revenue. Which is probably the main reason they got back together after... two weeks. Yes, if I recall Dennis was broke, even having lost his boat, The Harmony. Wasn't Mike bankrupt? Brian and Carl would soon get rocked with alimony and child support.
When you think about how it, it's sad how fast they fell out of favor. They were huge - HUGE - in 1976. And, about a year later, things were crumbling, professionally and personally, and it was over. A huge second chance blown. Obviously, Rocky Pamplin is trying to cash in on that controversial period, but 1976-1980 was a fascinating era. Sex, drugs, and rock & roll to the max...
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Post by B.E. on Mar 26, 2019 16:53:10 GMT
When you think about it, it's sad how fast they fell out of favor. They were huge - HUGE - in 1976. And, about a year later, things were crumbling, professionally and personally, and it was over. A huge second chance blown. Obviously, Rocky Pamplin is trying to cash in on that controversial period, but 1976-1980 was a fascinating era. Sex, drugs, and rock & roll to the max... It's really sad. And frustrating, as a fan. Especially when you remind yourself that they all wanted to be Beach Boys above all else (even in '77!). If you re-read that RS article, Dennis and Carl are so upset because they feel they are being pushed out of the band. And while Brian's level of interest in being a Beach Boy throughout the years is certainly debatable, I still think that would be his #1 choice, all things being equal (which they aren't, of course). Considering how huge they were in '76, I totally understand them not wanted to take a break and squander whatever remaining momentum they still had.
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Post by kds on Mar 26, 2019 17:11:55 GMT
The Rolling Stone article about the Beach Boys end-of-the-tour breakup in 1977 (ending of course with them getting back together within days) was on my mind the other day as I was writing about M.I.U. and L.A. (Light Album). So in that vein, I wanted to ask two questions of anyone interested in responding:
1) How do you wish that situation had resolved itself?
2) Realistically, deep down, what do you truly believe would have happened had the breakup stuck with the Beach Boys truly ending in 1977?
As I'm a bigger fan of MIU and LA than the previous two albums, I'm glad the breakup was short lived. Had The Beach Boys really called it a day in 1977, I think at some point they'd have reunited. Maybe for Live Aid in 1985. Imagine if Full House was the forum for the reunion.
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Post by B.E. on Mar 26, 2019 17:12:02 GMT
Another interesting facet of this topic is Mike's view of the band in '77 compared to later on. The implication is that he (and Al) felt that they could continue on as "The Beach Boys" without Dennis and Carl, but that they still needed Brian. In Ken's book, someone mentioned Mike's eagerness to get back on the road with Brian (this was after the tarmac incident, presumably). Not to mention, have you ever heard MIU? They started recording that at the same time.
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Post by B.E. on Mar 26, 2019 17:24:00 GMT
As I'm a bigger fan of MIU and LA than the previous two albums, I'm glad the breakup was short lived. MIU is one of my least favorite Beach Boys album. I still give it a 6/10.
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