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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 18, 2020 0:28:03 GMT
If it’s fireworks you want, we need witnesses! Everyone: Pompeo, Bolton, Biden, Biden Jr, I don’t care. Rudy Giuliani! Adam Schiff! Stormy Daniels, for all I care. Knock yourselves out, everybody; let’s make some TV! Can you imagine the TV ratings if all of the above testify. I'd actually take off work to watch it! The Democrats want Pompeo and Bolton badly, but not as badly as the Republicans want No Experience Hunter and Sleepy Creepy Uncle Joe!
Personally, my first choice would be the Congenital Liar Shifty Schiff.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 18, 2020 23:51:37 GMT
Anybody have an opinion on this Lev Parnas?
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 19, 2020 0:24:28 GMT
Anybody have an opinion on this Lev Parnas? One of a seemingly endless parade of criminals from the president's periphery who, I'd assume from what I read and hear, wanted to be a big timer but wasn't. He should be fully investigated, of course, but (as with anyone else, but especially convicts looking for reduced sentences) not believed at face value.
Beyond that, I want to wait and see. As usual, it's too easy to see him as the key to bringing down the president if you're one person, and just another spurned nobody from that orbit looking to say anything to get himself out of trouble if you're another person.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 19, 2020 0:35:09 GMT
Anybody have an opinion on this Lev Parnas? One of a seemingly endless parade of criminals from the president's periphery who, I'd assume from what I read and hear, wanted to be a big timer but wasn't. He should be fully investigated, of course, but (as with anyone else, but especially convicts looking for reduced sentences) not believed at face value.
Beyond that, I want to wait and see. As usual, it's too easy to see him as the key to bringing down the president if you're one person, and just another spurned nobody from that orbit looking to say anything to get himself out of trouble if you're another person.
Yeah, that's pretty much how I feel. These, as you say, parade of criminals surface, and places like CNN and MSNBC milk them for everything they can. It doesn't lead anywhere and usually they're gone in a few days. This guy Parnas has now had his 15 minutes of fame (before he goes to jail), but the Democrats are really pushing to make him/his recollections a factor in this week's impeachment trial.
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 19, 2020 0:55:11 GMT
By the way, I say this not for political strategy reasons or moral reasons or based on any legality or illegality, but just for people's actual day-to-day well being: members of the general population who aren't personally involved in any of this need to stop jumping at every story and rumor, stop putting their hopes into this one (whichever particular one this is at the time) being the one that will bring down the boogeyman president, the one that will end their national nightmare, the one that will justify the obsession.
Whether the president is a filthy and serious criminal and the worst president of all time, or whether he's the smartest and most brilliant president we've ever had, either way, I think people should just step back a little bit and live their lives first and foremost. Follow the news, by all means. Vote for whomever you see fit. Volunteer, even. Campaign. Go for it.
But letting the day to day soap operas impact one's well being, one's mental health, that's just really an unnecessary stress. That there are people who haven't actually been impacted at all by this presidency in any measurable way who talk and act and I think truly feel as if they are living through a Nazi German administration is a really sad statement on people's perspective (and the media-political machinery's harmful product).
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 19, 2020 1:16:27 GMT
By the way, I say this not for political strategy reasons or moral reasons or based on any legality or illegality, but just for people's actual day-to-day well being: members of the general population who aren't personally involved in any of this need to stop jumping at every story and rumor, stop putting their hopes into this one (whichever particular one this is at the time) being the one that will bring down the boogeyman president, the one that will end their national nightmare, the one that will justify the obsession.
Whether the president is a filthy and serious criminal and the worst president of all time, or whether he's the smartest and most brilliant president we've ever had, either way, I think people should just step back a little bit and live their lives first and foremost. Follow the news, by all means. Vote for whomever you see fit. Volunteer, even. Campaign. Go for it.
But letting the day to day soap operas impact one's well being, one's mental health, that's just really an unnecessary stress. That there are people who haven't actually been impacted at all by this presidency in any measurable way who talk and act and I think truly feel as if they are living through a Nazi German administration is a really sad statement on people's perspective (and the media-political machinery's harmful product).
Yep.
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 19, 2020 14:12:41 GMT
Many in America talk about our democratic failings: whether it's a fascist president or a deep state and corrupt media that you think undermines the will of the people, there is no shortage of ranting.
But let's consider the week in Russia.
It has been more than a decade since Vladimir Putin ran an end-around on the Russian constitution by taking a term as prime minister after two terms as president (installing his own preferred candidate, Dmitri Medvedev, as president) before taking back the presidency for another two terms. That gives him 20 years already in control, with four more on his latest and presumably final term as president.
But this week, Putin announced a series of other changes in Russian government. He replaced the prime minister and changed rules to give his hand-picked legislators more power to name prime ministers and other cabinet members, took measures to weaken the presidency going forward, and is strengthening the now-weak State Council ... which he apparently will lead. From that role, he could impose his will on the next government while maintaining a certain high-perched aloofness, letting him take credit for success but cast blame for failures, all while not risking prosecution for innumerable crimes once out of office--which has been a key factor all along. (It's the reason he became president in the first place, for cutting a similar deal with Boris Yeltsin.)
All of the measures that seem to solidify his control until he gives it up ... presumably upon his death. Communism is long gone from Russia; an illiberal, undemocratic autocracy remains strong.
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 19, 2020 14:26:26 GMT
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 22, 2020 1:45:43 GMT
Is anybody watching the impeachment hearings? I've had it on since about 4:30 PM. I don't know much about impeachment proceedings, but it just seems like they're retrying the case all over again. We've heard it all before, about a month ago! I'm just waiting for Alan Dershowitz to testify and see what Shifty Schiff's rebuttal will be.
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 22, 2020 1:53:06 GMT
My understanding is that all Dershowitz is doing is outlining the purely constitutional arguments of why these charges don't warrant impeachment. He isn't involved in the strategy overall or dealing with the specific allegations or defenses at all. And that his work will just be in the opening statements.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 22, 2020 2:03:21 GMT
My understanding is that all Dershowitz is doing is outlining the purely constitutional arguments of why these charges don't warrant impeachment. He isn't involved in the strategy overall or dealing with the specific allegations or defenses at all. And that his work will just be in the opening statements. That is exactly correct, but I think what Dershowitz has to offer is significant. I've heard a good bit of what he's going to say on some of the talking head shows over the last week or so. He'll point out that the articles of impeachment as presented, especially the obstruction of congress charges, are against the constitution, and that this whole "trial" is a farce. Then I want to hear what Schiff has to say.
Do you know what is really scary, and I'm not saying this to take sides. In 2021, if Trump is re-elected and the Democrats take back the Senate, Trump will be impeached again (the Democrats will come up with something), and Trump will then be removed from office. By the end of 2021. That's what things have come to.
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 22, 2020 13:19:44 GMT
Assuming they keep the House and win the Senate, probably. Otherwise they’ll just keep complaining.
On another topic, the establishment Democratic machine is certainly going all-out against Bernie! First Elizabeth Warren, now Hillary Clinton? Such crap... I bet the rest of the transparently faux woke like Sen Gillibrand, Sen Harris, fmr Sec Castro and fmr Rep O’Rourke pile on too.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 22, 2020 20:29:54 GMT
On another topic, the establishment Democratic machine is certainly going all-out against Bernie! First Elizabeth Warren, now Hillary Clinton? Such crap... Yeah, it's no coincidence that it's Elizabeth Warren and Hillary Clinton who came out and hammered Bernie for making the comment about a female not being able to be elected President.
I must be a masochist for watching these impeachment hearings. Adam Schiff literally makes my blood pressure rise to very high levels. It's almost like I don't believe a word he says and completely question his motives. It's like I can see right through him. He appears, to me anyway, to be obsessed with destroying Trump. He knows that there is zero chance of Trump being removed from office now (that'll come in 2021), but he simply wants to dirty up Trump AS MUCH as he can get away with, try to influence the upcoming election, pay back Trump for defeating the Democratic candidate, getting revenge on Trump because he (Trump) didn't deserve to be President and then he (Trump) rubbed it in their faces, and finally, and I truly believe this, Schiff is just trying to insert himself or force himself or make an indelible mark on U.S. history. Schiff wants to be in the history books and documentaries, and he is using impeachment as a way to accomplish that.
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Post by B.E. on Jan 22, 2020 22:20:08 GMT
I'm not defending Schiff's motives, but I think he's got the facts on his side. I listened to most of his speech today and I thought he did a pretty good job laying out the timeline. The timeline is damning. Trump did abuse his power. That's all I care about.
Also, I'm not concerned about setting a dangerous precedent. What's so dangerous about keeping the executive in check?
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 22, 2020 23:16:12 GMT
I think the whole thing is a mess, and I don't think my feelings on the subject would make much of anyone--at least not any strong partisans or strong ideologues--happy.
Underlying substance:
I don't see much, if any, indication that the president didn't (seemingly illegally, based on recent rulings) withhold congressionally approved aid and the promise of a White House meeting in return for the announcement of an investigation into so-called corruption by Burisma. And in fact, the president and Mick Mulvaney both seem to have said as much at one time or another. The GOP line that Ukraine got their aid is a laughable defense in that the aid was released only after the scandal broke.
Democrats' approach: There is no realistic question that Democrats have been champing at the bit to impeach the president since he won the election. That doesn't mean he is innocent of this or that he's guilty of it, but it does at least call into question their motives and require some skepticism (cynicism) in viewing the whole thing. I was surprised that this was what finally brought an impeachment investigation, honestly. The Stormy Daniels situation was a crime. His continuing to profit off of his businesses while in office seems to be unconstitutional. His unwillingness to release his taxes hints at more financial irregularities. And the Mueller report outlined what seem to me to be pretty clear (failed attempts at) obstruction of justice. And they end up going for this?
The holier-than-thou talking points throughout are driving me insane. I have very little faith in any of these people.
Republicans' response: Speaking of laughable... It's funny how quickly the president has transformed the party into pure apologists. Even the many--yes, it was many at the time, look it up!--Republicans who initially expressed discomfort with his handling of this situation have almost universally fallen into line with the "perfect call" line, which is, sorry, absurd. And then their unwillingness to participate in the House investigation (while complaining they were being shut out of it...) and the administration's blanket refusal to turn over documents or allow testimony, followed immediately by the Senate saying "if you wanted those witnesses or documents, you should have called them in the House investigation" is hard to even hear without punching a hole in a wall or vomiting. It's absurd.
So overall:
The entire thing is a partisan game being played what seems undeniably to be at best some awful judgment by the president, the latest in a long line of displays of his flawed character. But is it something that warrants impeachment? That I don't know. Was it really illegal? I don't know that either. Apparently, per GAO. Whose benefit will this whole bit of theater serve? I don't know, but I can easily see it bolstering the president's chances, since nobody in their right mind thinks the senate will convict. Some new and unbelievably damning evidence would have to come out for enough Republican senators to switch to the Democrats' side. And I mean REALLY bad. When you think of the flip-flops, the nonsense, the bad behavior they have explicitly or implicitly already accommodated, it would take a lot now.
So yeah. It's just awful. And I really suspect we'll see more impeachment hearings in the next 20 years than we've seen in the past 200.
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