jmayer43
Denny's Drums
Posts: 47
Likes: 28
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Post by jmayer43 on Jan 24, 2024 16:10:36 GMT
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 24, 2024 20:08:26 GMT
I've got this playing while I'm working today. (Well, "working" is a pretty strong word for what I'm doing at the moment.) Some of the discussion around the 15-20 minute mark, related to Dennis pulling his songs and the theoretical fit of "WIBNTLA" on the album along with "Till I Die" and the title track is something I've thought about before, and we might have even posted about it on this board. Sheriff John Stone, the king of alternate track orders and alternate albums, no doubt has done so. I know I'd worked on an alt track listing and running order for Surf's Up, but looking at it, there's no way I finished it--either that or I was out of my mind when I did so. So I'm not going with what I had. What would be the best way to handle an alternate Surf's Up that included all three of those somewhat epic, somewhat ballad-like* songs? *Not that they're really ballads, but slower, longer, certainly non-rocking tunes.
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jmayer43
Denny's Drums
Posts: 47
Likes: 28
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Post by jmayer43 on Jan 24, 2024 22:56:26 GMT
I've got this playing while I'm working today. (Well, "working" is a pretty strong word for what I'm doing at the moment.) Some of the discussion around the 15-20 minute mark, related to Dennis pulling his songs and the theoretical fit of "WIBNTLA" on the album along with "Till I Die" and the title track is something I've thought about before, and we might have even posted about it on this board. Sheriff John Stone , the king of alternate track orders and alternate albums, no doubt has done so. I know I'd worked on an alt track listing and running order for Surf's Up, but looking at it, there's no way I finished it--either that or I was out of my mind when I did so. So I'm not going with what I had. What would be the best way to handle an alternate Surf's Up that included all three of those somewhat epic, somewhat ballad-like* songs? *Not that they're really ballads, but slower, longer, certainly non-rocking tunes. As always thanks for listening, we appreciate it! In terms of WIBNTLA I personally would put it either before or after ‘Til I Die, as I feel the themes of those two songs work well back to back, and then also maybe shorten the outro/ending a bit (I feel the length on Made in California is good but the Feel Flows version goes on too long for my liking) Also assuming we need to cut a track to make room for that song, I would say to drop Take A Load off Your Feet or Student Demonstration Time, as I feel they’re the two weakest songs on the album (although I don’t hate either one) Do you have any ideas for how you would sequence the album with that song included? Also we talk about this a bit later on in the podcast, but 4th of July has never been a personal favorite of mine (which apparently I’m not alone on as Reilly and Justin seemed pretty cold on it too haha) so it doesn’t bother me that that one was left off. I don’t think it’s bad and lyrically it would have fit fine alongside some of the other tracks, but I think Dennis has written much better songs. If there had to be a second Dennis song from around that time on the album my vote would be for Lady (Fallin’ in Love) but I don’t know if that would have fit in quite as well. (Then again you could make an argument that Disney Girls doesn’t totally fit in, but I have no problem with that song being on the album) As you said it’s always interesting and fun coming up with alternative albums/tracklists!
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 25, 2024 0:42:46 GMT
Hey guys, I hope you don't mind my chiming in. As Kapitan noted above, re-configuring or re-sequencing albums is a hobby of mine. Actually, it's probably closer to an obsession. Our forum has a thread called Post Your Alternate Albums And Favorite Playlists. A few years ago, I posted an alternate Surf's Up album on that thread. Before re-posting it here, I gave it a fresh listen, and I think it still holds up. This was my original post:
July 19, 2020 A question for serious Beach Boys' fans...Does the group's history or the backstories of the music affect your enjoyment of their music? For me? Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
Surf's Up is one of those instances, one of those albums. Ever since I read about the Dennis Wilson songs that woulda/shoulda/coulda been on Surf's Up, it has affected how I perceive the album, and sometimes the way I enjoy it. I think Surf's Up is a good album. I place it somewhere in the middle of the pack. A lot of fans think Surf's Up is a great album. I think it could've been, I think Surf's Up could've been a Top 5 Beach Boys' album. And that's what I'm trying to do here, make it a great album.
I need two things. First I need those Dennis Wilson's songs. We know that "(Wouldn't It Be Nice) To Live Again" was very much considered for the Surf's Up album, but was "4th Of July" a candidate, too? Maybe. How about "Lady"? Possible but doubtful. Well, I'm using all three! How could the band go from four Dennis Wilson-composed/performed songs on Sunflower (not to mention some excellent songs on Friends and 20/20) to zero on Surf's Up? Whoever was to blame, it was a big, big mistake.
And, one song has to go. Through the years, "Take A Load Off Your Feet" has consistently appeared on my "Worst Beach Boys' Songs" lists. I just don't see any redeeming qualities with the song. Maybe Surf's Up could've used a little humor to offset the seriousness of the other "deeper" songs, but "Take A Load Off Your Feet" has to go.
So, I'm adding three songs and deleting one (going from 10 songs at 33:49 to 12 songs at 37:45). I'm doing some serious re-sequencing; four different lead vocalists on Side 1 and five different lead vocalists on Side 2. I think this version of Surf's Up challenges Sunflower!
The Beach Boys - Surf's Up (1971)
Side 1 1. Feel Flows 2. Lookin' At Tomorrow (A Welfare Song) 3. Long Promised Road 4. Lady 5. (Wouldn't It Be Nice) To Live Again 6. Disney Girls
Side 2 1. Student Demonstration Time 2. 4th Of July 3. Don't Go Near The Water 4. A Day In The Life Of A Tree 5. Til I Die 6. Surf's Up
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 25, 2024 3:36:18 GMT
And, one song has to go. Through the years, "Take A Load Off Your Feet" has consistently appeared on my "Worst Beach Boys' Songs" lists. I just don't see any redeeming qualities with the song. Maybe Surf's Up could've used a little humor to offset the seriousness of the other "deeper" songs, but "Take A Load Off Your Feet" has to go. You and Reilly from the podcast are on the same page. (Though his reason was more feet-related. Just doesn't like feet.) But not me: I'm a firm "Feet" defender. I think it's a solid little tune, admittedly goofy, but nice enough. A bit of the kitchen sink in the production, but that's OK. The only way I'd remove it from Surf's Up would be if they had put it on Sunflower (if it was done by then), or if the legendary (as in literally legendary: not real) Landlocked had come out and included it.
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 25, 2024 16:16:16 GMT
OK, this is what I would have done to include Dennis's "WIBNTLA." I took a very light-handed approach and didn't remove any songs from the album, but rather just added that one. (This left it at 11 songs and about 39 minutes.) Realistically, I'd like to be more heavy-handed and more fully reimagine what that album could have been. But the idea was tweaking what's already there, not replacing it with something 50% (for example) different.
Here's where I landed.
Side One (~18 minutes) 1. Don't Go Near the Water 2. Take a Load Off Your Feet 3. Lookin At Tomorrow (A Welfare Song) 4. Long Promised Road 5. A Day in the Life of a Tree 6. Surf's Up
Side Two (~20 minutes) 7. Student Demonstration Time 8. Disney Girls (1957) 9. Feel Flows 10. Til I Die 11. Wouldn't It Be Nice (to Live Again)
It's quite a concession to put the cornerstone track at the end of Side One rather than starting either side or finishing the album, but while some people don't think of the final song of Side Ones to be an important spot--I've heard it said this is often the worst song on an album--I personally consider closing songs to sides as important as openers. And in this case, it could almost be interpreted as closing one era of the band and opening another one (though not strictly ... songs on each side contradict that concept).
With my focus often on openers and closers both, I'm not thrilled to open Side Two with "Student Demonstration Time," but it's the only rocker we have left, and I do like the contrast between it and the subsequent "Disney Girls." And the track of SDT is good, anyway, siren notwithstanding.
I'm a fan of the new closing trio of songs, a sort of "Wilsons Suite," if you like, with a trio of modern-sounding tunes from Carl, Brian, and Dennis, respectively. And the combination of "Til I Die" with the resurrection of "TIBNTLA" is hard not to do.
If I were going to tweak this, I'd swap around "Lookin at Tomorrow" with "Disney Girls." But at least for now, I'm not.
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