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Post by kds on Aug 1, 2020 12:44:41 GMT
I'm a little surprised Beato gave Ozzy's debut an HM, but no mention of Black Sabbath's self titled 1970 debut. It definitely fits his criteria of inventing a genre - heavy metal. And, it includes some Sabbath signature songs like the title track, The Wizard (which inspired BOC's Cities On Flame With Rock and Roll), and N.I.B.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 1, 2020 12:51:38 GMT
I'm a little surprised Beato gave Ozzy's debut an HM, but no mention of Black Sabbath's self titled 1970 debut. It definitely fits his criteria of inventing a genre - heavy metal. And, it includes some Sabbath signature songs like the title track, The Wizard (which inspired BOC's Cities On Flame With Rock and Roll), and N.I.B. I thought the exact same thing!
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Post by jk on Aug 1, 2020 13:43:10 GMT
Just as I've said about the Doors, I have a hard time even imagining what it must have been like to hear this debut (also from 1967) for the first time:
The Jimi Hendrix Experience, Are You Experienced?
Heard it back in '67 but with a different (read: original UK) running order: Side one 1. "Foxy Lady" 2. "Manic Depression" 3. "Red House" 4. "Can You See Me" 5. "Love or Confusion" 6. "I Don't Live Today" Side two 1. "May This Be Love" 2. "Fire" 3. "3rd Stone from the Sun" 4. "Remember" 5. "Are You Experienced" Yes, that was quite an amazing experience! (No pun intended.)
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Post by B.E. on Aug 1, 2020 13:50:35 GMT
I think you're right about Linkin Park. I have to admit, I never followed them at all--not when they were new, not now--and actually didn't realize Chester Bennington died (or know who he is in relation to the band). BUT, I have definitely heard them referenced in positive terms pretty regularly in the past few years. So you may have something, there. Agreed 100% about the show of respect for an artist's work based on his demise: I don't think it makes any sense. (Actually I think that holds true for all people and all facets of their lives, not just judging artists' work.) Like you, I'm not talking belittling people's grief over someone dying, or "dancing on their graves." But I just don't think someone's death changes their life. Then again, I'm often accused of lacking empathy.
Unfortunately, I do remember the arrival of LP in that turn of the century shitshow that hard rock and metal was at the time. Bennington was their primary vocalist, who took his life around the same did Cornell did (which is why Beato said the clip of them was sad). But, I can't say I've ever been impressed with his vocals or his band, and his tragic end doesn't change my mind one bit. But, then again (KDS Get off my lawn comment), the bar for male hard rock vocals have been lowered considerably over the last 25 years. I hated Linkin Park when they arrived and have successfully avoided listening to them for the last 20 years...until now...I just listened to "In The End" to remind myself, and it's not quite as repulsive as I remember. I still don't like it, though. Here's to the next 20!
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 1, 2020 13:52:24 GMT
Are You Experienced? is one of those albums I just lived in for a while in my teens, as I began learning guitar and digging back into rock history. But then I moved into the later Hendrix albums and other things for a while, and AYE was stuck in my mind as kind of tame, a little dull, certainly lesser than his later work.
Sometime later--college, probably?--I revisited it and remember thinking, "gosh, I'm a moron. This is an absolute classic." There are half a dozen or so stone-cold classics on it, and several other really cool songs. Amazing album!
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Post by kds on Aug 1, 2020 14:09:18 GMT
Unfortunately, I do remember the arrival of LP in that turn of the century shitshow that hard rock and metal was at the time. Bennington was their primary vocalist, who took his life around the same did Cornell did (which is why Beato said the clip of them was sad). But, I can't say I've ever been impressed with his vocals or his band, and his tragic end doesn't change my mind one bit. But, then again (KDS Get off my lawn comment), the bar for male hard rock vocals have been lowered considerably over the last 25 years. I hated Linkin Park when they arrived and have successfully avoided listening to them for the last 20 years...until now...I just listened to "In The End" to remind myself, and it's not quite as repulsive as I remember. I still don't like it, though. Here's to the next 20! In the End probably sounds less repulsive now since Imagine Dragons hadn't been invented yet in 2000.
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Post by B.E. on Aug 1, 2020 14:14:21 GMT
I'll take your word for it!
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Post by jk on Aug 1, 2020 21:27:43 GMT
Two more gems of debuts, one with no follow-up...
...and one with plenty of fantastic music to follow:
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Aug 1, 2020 22:43:01 GMT
Ahh, Blind Faith... After Jim Morrison died and Manzarek, Krieger, and Densmore continued on as a trio, I wish they would've followed in the footsteps of Blind Faith. In 1971, The Doors recorded a song for their Other Voices album called "Ships w/ Sails" which reminds me of Blind Faith.
"Do What You Like" is another Blind Faith song that I could've heard the post-Morrison Doors recording:
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Post by kds on Aug 2, 2020 0:21:27 GMT
Meatloaf, with songs by Jim Steinman, released a classic debut in Bat Out of Hell.
The LP is so iconic, Meat and Jim released two more Bat albums in hopes that lightning would strike a couple more times. Bat II in 1993 wound up being a massive success. Not quite as much for 2006's Bat III. But both live in the shadow of the original Bat.
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Post by jk on Aug 2, 2020 11:18:17 GMT
Meatloaf, with songs by Jim Steinman, released a classic debut in Bat Out of Hell. The LP is so iconic, Meat and Jim released two more Bat albums in hopes that lightning would strike a couple more times. Bat II in 1993 wound up being a massive success. Not quite as much for 2006's Bat III. But both live in the shadow of the original Bat. Powerful stuff! I have particularly fond memories of "Two Out Of Three Ain't Bad":
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 2, 2020 12:25:41 GMT
I might have to give Meat Loaf's debut another try: I never did much care for it, even though it is right up my alley. However, it does stand out in my memory for an odd reason.
At some junior high dance, "Paradise By the Dashboard Light" came on and virtually all of the girls rushed out onto the floor--together, as is the way junior high dances go--to dance and sing along to this song. While I was probably more into rock music than anyone in my class (which, with maybe 75 people per class at the time, isn't saying all that much...), I had never heard it. Neither had any of the guys around me. But it seemed every single girl knew it.
I found out relatively quickly--though not as quickly as I could have these days, with a phone!--what it was, and wondered how every girl would know it and no boy would know it. Was there some "Cool Songs Preparatory School for Girls"?
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Post by kds on Aug 2, 2020 12:52:04 GMT
I often wonder that with those group dance songs like the Cha Cha Slide and Cupid Shuffle. Do women get memoes on the dance moves to such songs to be used at bats, clubs, weddings, etc?
I'd always kind of liked Meatloaf, but I really didn't go all in on the Bat album until I got into the Beach Boys in 2012. I think it was the Spector / Brian esque production.
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Post by kds on Aug 3, 2020 12:48:46 GMT
A minor aside about an undeniably great debut - GNR's Appetite album. It's a great hard rock album for sure, but I've often heard it described as a "game changer" or "influential." Was it? I'm not so sure.
It did come out at a time when hard rock was very slick and polished, so to many who hated the glam / pop / hair / MTV rock, I could see Appetite being a breath of fresh air. But, the album was released in 1987, and the glam metal movement continued unabated until probably around 1992. And, a lot of the material that GNR released as singles for the UYI albums fit very well with that type of rock.
I suppose you could argue that the back to basics hard rock could've paved the way for the grunge movement, but I think there's a huge divide between GNR and the grunge bands, especially considering GNR was very lead guitar oriented. Maybe, GNR kicked open the door for the massive success Metallica had in 1991? Still, very stylistically different. Maybe the success of GNR's Patience kickstarted the trend in the late 80s / early 90s for hard rock bands going acoustic. But WAIT, that song was not on Appetite.
And I really don't recall a lot of bands following in the wake of GNR with a similar style. I wish it had started a movement like that. Rock and roll could've been in far better shape throughout the decade.
And, it's also not like it started a prolific career. GNR had a great short window. And, their fizzling out around 1993-94 definitely didn't help the rock landscape.
So, I think it's very accurate to call the album a great debut, and a classic album. But, I just don't see it as this game changing or influential moment.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 3, 2020 13:46:26 GMT
I sort-of agree, but not entirely.
GnR did bring more denim than leather, both literally and figuratively: they reintroduced and repopularized a kind of down-to-earth, bluesier music and look that I think we saw other bands take up to some degree. Less makeup, less glitz, less over-the-top, less metal. I think we saw the popularity of bands like Skid Row, Great White, and even the Black Crowes in part because of GnR's influence.
That said, GnR were not remotely grunge, or even really dedicated to a back-to-basics rock and roll. Axl at least had (very, very grand) ambitions that were every bit as dramatic and probably even more pretentious than the glam or other kinds of metal they were allegedly replacing. (I mean, a motorcycle-piano, backup singers, an orchestra to accompany seven- or nine-minute epics?) It was well known at the time that grunge bands despised GnR, including a highly publicized near-fight between Kurt Cobain and Axl Rose, which would've been hilarious considering they're two tiny little fellows.
So I think they, and Appetite, were highly influential. But they didn't change the world on their own, either. It wasn't the Beatles on Ed Sullivan. But you did see fewer of the early 80s Motley Crues, Twisted Sisters, or mid-80s Poisons.
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