NFL

[Kapitan]

The Vikings' preseason kicks off Saturday. It sneaks up on me every year: it can't be football season already, can it? Football is for fall! But yeah, getting toward mid-August means NFL preseason. 

In Minnesota, the spotlight is on the QB position. Everyone wants to know how much rookie QB JJ McCarthy will play in the preseason, and more to the real question, how long until he's the starter? Right now, the depth chart has veteran Sam Darnold--here on a 1-year deal that is obviously meant as a stopgap--as the starter, with the backup listed as "Nick Mullens/JJ McCarthy," and 26-year-old, 2nd-year Jaren Hall as the third-stringer ... though it looks like 4th stringer if my math is right!

Personally, I see no reason to rush McCarthy. If he's better than Darnold, sure. Otherwise, there is no sense in throwing him to the wolves, having him struggle, and possibly break his confidence before he can build it up. He's only 21 years old, won't turn 22 until just before the final game of the 2024 season (one of the first days of Jan. 2025).

Other than destroying him before he's ready, though, I admit the second-worst scenario MIGHT be if Darnold is awesome and McCarthy is clearly not ready all season long. Then you go into Year Two with a QB drafted #10 overall who is getting big money but not playing, and you either have to pay up for the successful guy in front of him or let that successful guy in front of him walk. Though I don't know how likely that is.

[kds]

As much as I look forward to football, the start of the preseason is a reminder than summer is waning. The games are also borderline unwatchable too, IMO.

The Ravens kick off their preseason tomorrow night. I'll just catch highlights or read a recap later. I probably haven't watched a preseason game in full in over 15 years.

[Kapitan]

Aug 8, 2024 15:07:05 GMT kds said:

The games are also borderline unwatchable too, IMO.

I totally agree.

Maybe this is false nostalgia, but it seems to me that when I was a kid, most teams at least played their first teams a series or two every game, and usually in their second-to-last game would play them much of the game.

In recent years, it seems that it's more like few to no starters ever play, backups are treated like starters used to be, and a lot of time is going to borderline roster guys and likely training camp cuts. Add to that the fact that nobody uses their real offenses or defenses out of fear of giving away secrets, and it is rough stuff to watch...

[kds]

Aug 8, 2024 15:48:01 GMT Kapitan said:

Aug 8, 2024 15:07:05 GMT kds said:

The games are also borderline unwatchable too, IMO.

I totally agree.

Maybe this is false nostalgia, but it seems to me that when I was a kid, most teams at least played their first teams a series or two every game, and usually in their second-to-last game would play them much of the game.

In recent years, it seems that it's more like few to no starters ever play, backups are treated like starters used to be, and a lot of time is going to borderline roster guys and likely training camp cuts. Add to that the fact that nobody uses their real offenses or defenses out of fear of giving away secrets, and it is rough stuff to watch...

You're correct.   I remember when the Ravens first entered the league in 1996, the starters would play an entire half, and sometime into the third quarter in the 2nd and 3rd Preseason games.   The games actually resembled football games then.   

But, the players are so much stronger and faster now that it really doesn't make sense to put key players in a position to get hurt in a meaningless game.   

Speaking of holdovers from the past, the Ravens are playing some daytime preseason games this year.   The last daytime preseason Ravens game I can recall occurred around 2000.   Typical August weather in Baltimore doesn't really lend itself to playing football in the sun.  But, I believe that there was a conflict with the Orioles playing a nightgame next Saturday, so that's why the Ravens are playing a rare day game at home in August.  

[Kapitan]

First-round rookie QBs are always the subject of fans' attention. So you can imagine the collective groan in Minnesota when we learned yesterday that #10 pick JJ McCarthy was held out of practice for knee soreness. 

McCarthy had a promising preseason debut as the #2, completing 11-17 passes for 188 yards and 2 TDs (and one bad INT). But somewhere along the line, he did something to his knee. 

Of course, it could be (and hopefully is) nothing, just what they say: soreness. But that kind of investment, plus pessimistic fans, really has people holding their breath. It doesn't help that we lost another QB of the future, the promising Teddy Bridgewater, about a decade ago to a devastating leg injury before his third season. (He returned to the league, but not as a Viking, and he wasn't ever the same.)

Given how much time off the Vikings seem to give prominent players--it feels like every day I read that Justin Jefferson, Harrison Smith, etc., sat out practice--I'm hoping it's just that. (Oh, and fellow first rounder DE Dallas Turner also was held out!) 

[Kapitan]

Aug 13, 2024 12:10:31 GMT Kapitan said:

First-round rookie QBs are always the subject of fans' attention. So you can imagine the collective groan in Minnesota when we learned yesterday that #10 pick JJ McCarthy was held out of practice for knee soreness. 

McCarthy had a promising preseason debut as the #2, completing 11-17 passes for 188 yards and 2 TDs (and one bad INT). But somewhere along the line, he did something to his knee. 

Of course, it could be (and hopefully is) nothing, just what they say: soreness. But that kind of investment, plus pessimistic fans, really has people holding their breath. It doesn't help that we lost another QB of the future, the promising Teddy Bridgewater, about a decade ago to a devastating leg injury before his third season. (He returned to the league, but not as a Viking, and he wasn't ever the same.)

Given how much time off the Vikings seem to give prominent players--it feels like every day I read that Justin Jefferson, Harrison Smith, etc., sat out practice--I'm hoping it's just that. (Oh, and fellow first rounder DE Dallas Turner also was held out!) 

Torn meniscus requiring knee surgery.

This is why Vikings fans are so pessimistic: it's always warranted!

[Kapitan]

Aug 13, 2024 16:52:05 GMT Kapitan said:

Aug 13, 2024 12:10:31 GMT Kapitan said:

First-round rookie QBs are always the subject of fans' attention. So you can imagine the collective groan in Minnesota when we learned yesterday that #10 pick JJ McCarthy was held out of practice for knee soreness. 

McCarthy had a promising preseason debut as the #2, completing 11-17 passes for 188 yards and 2 TDs (and one bad INT). But somewhere along the line, he did something to his knee. 

Of course, it could be (and hopefully is) nothing, just what they say: soreness. But that kind of investment, plus pessimistic fans, really has people holding their breath. It doesn't help that we lost another QB of the future, the promising Teddy Bridgewater, about a decade ago to a devastating leg injury before his third season. (He returned to the league, but not as a Viking, and he wasn't ever the same.)

Given how much time off the Vikings seem to give prominent players--it feels like every day I read that Justin Jefferson, Harrison Smith, etc., sat out practice--I'm hoping it's just that. (Oh, and fellow first rounder DE Dallas Turner also was held out!) 

Torn meniscus requiring knee surgery.

This is why Vikings fans are so pessimistic: it's always warranted!

Annnnnnnd he's out the whole season. 

What would be interesting now is if Sam Darnold were to have a phenomenal season. That would make it a similar situation in some ways to when Case Keenum was so good while Teddy Bridgewater was out. But a torn meniscus is a far, far less serious injury than what Bridgewater suffered, so unlike in that case, the Vikings aren't about to give up on him so quickly. So if Darnold does well, the team has a huge decision to make: re-sign him as a (presumably more expensive) security blanket / longer-than-planned transitional quarterback? Let him walk and hope McCarthy is ready? Let him walk and bring in another, 2025 version of Darnold (i.e., someone with some experience but who won't break the bank or expect more than a year)?

[Sheriff John Stone]

I can't believe McCarthy is out for the season. That's terrible. It's terrible for the Vikings, and it's terrible for football fans everywhere, and this is why. It's injuries like McCarthy's which is why coaches are so hesitant to play their starters and other key players in the preseason. But the fans are affected, too. It's preseason football. The start of another season. Fans are getting psyched. They wanna see some football and the preseason games start and you tune in on a Friday or Saturday night and you're hoping to see some quality players, not a bunch of guys who will be driving a truck next week. Well, that ain't gonna change, and McCarthy's injury just cements that philosophy even more. He'll be the latest guy/injury in the back of coaches' heads, and we fans will just have to wait a few more weeks to see the big guns. Such a waste in so many ways. And, don't be surprised if another preseason game gets eliminated in the next year or so anyway.

[kds]

I think the NFL will eventually adopt an 18 game regular season, with a two game preseason. Of course, the extra game will lead to more injuries.

The rash of injuries definitely takes a lot of fun out of things. I remember a Wild Card playoff weekend a few years ago where three or four teams were missing their starting QBs, which resulted in a weekend of bad playoff games.

Its happening in MLB too with pitcher injuries on the rise.

[Kapitan]

Aug 15, 2024 13:48:17 GMT kds said:

I think the NFL will eventually adopt an 18 game regular season, with a two game preseason. Of course, the extra game will lead to more injuries.

I actually just read something within the past month that said the league was already very strongly considering this, more or less making it seem to me that it was a foregone conclusion. It's just a matter of when, and how it gets worked out with the players' union.

I'm sure I've said it before, but things like this are what makes me fume every time I read or hear owners or coaches talk about how preventing injuries or players' health is their #1 priority. (The NBA is the same way.) It's plainly not true, or you wouldn't be expanding your seasons. Revenue and profit are your top priorities. Obviously. Every single time.

[kds]

Aug 15, 2024 13:52:08 GMT Kapitan said:

Aug 15, 2024 13:48:17 GMT kds said:

I think the NFL will eventually adopt an 18 game regular season, with a two game preseason. Of course, the extra game will lead to more injuries.

I actually just read something within the past month that said the league was already very strongly considering this, more or less making it seem to me that it was a foregone conclusion. It's just a matter of when, and how it gets worked out with the players' union.

I'm sure I've said it before, but things like this are what makes me fume every time I read or hear owners or coaches talk about how preventing injuries or players' health is their #1 priority. (The NBA is the same way.) It's plainly not true, or you wouldn't be expanding your seasons. Revenue and profit are your top priorities. Obviously. Every single time.

Exactly, they preach player safety, but its all about money. The Ravens are playing on four days rest this year on Christmas, which falls on a Wednesday, because the NFL got a sweet deal with Netflix.

I'm pretty sure 18 games was always the goal. There was no way they're going to have an odd numbered game schedule.

And, the NFL has said they want the day after SB Sunday to be a holiday. With the extra week, the Super Bowl will likely be played on Presidents Day Weekend.

[B.E.]

Would it really be so bad if they add 1 regular season game and remove 1 preseason game? Injury-wise, are we sure it would make much of a difference? I get that starters don't play full preseason games, but every time you step on the field you risk injury.

[kds]

Aug 16, 2024 13:06:31 GMT B.E. said:

Would it really be so bad if they add 1 regular season game and remove 1 preseason game? Injury-wise, are we sure it would make much of a difference? I get that starters don't play full preseason games, but every time you step on the field you risk injury.

I feel the NFL is in danger a bit of diluting the product. One of the big appeals of the NFL is the season is short, compared to the other big four leagues. IMO, the 7th playoff team in each conference has already made the playoffs far less enticng.

They've already pretty much destroyed the mystique of prime time games with three game each week, sometimes more.

And with injuries, I do believe as players get bigger and faster and stronger, with less rest time and an extra game, you will see more injuries.

[Kapitan]

Aug 16, 2024 13:47:52 GMT kds said:

Aug 16, 2024 13:06:31 GMT B.E. said:

Would it really be so bad if they add 1 regular season game and remove 1 preseason game? Injury-wise, are we sure it would make much of a difference? I get that starters don't play full preseason games, but every time you step on the field you risk injury.

I feel the NFL is in danger a bit of diluting the product. One of the big appeals of the NFL is the season is short, compared to the other big four leagues. IMO, the 7th playoff team in each conference has already made the playoffs far less enticng.

They've already pretty much destroyed the mystique of prime time games with three game each week, sometimes more.

And with injuries, I do believe as players get bigger and faster and stronger, with less rest time and an extra game, you will see more injuries.

I agree with kds that the injury risks rise with another real game. As B.E. said, "every time you step on the field you risk injury." And adding a game (over a preseason game in which you likely would not play, or would not play much) increases that risk. But to further agree with kds, I think the odds of those risks are increasing because of the increasing size and speed of players. The league has safeties bigger than the linebackers of my childhood, linebackers bigger than linemen, wide receivers bigger than tight ends, and they're all stronger and faster than their counterparts from 30 years ago. Conversely, treatment/healthcare is better. But being able to recover from an injury still means there was an injury to begin with.

More than the injury risks, though, it's a vibe thing for me. And kds covered that too. (I guess I should have just liked his post and been done with it!) I think about league records, for example, or even general milestones. Numbers mean different things already with 17 games, and they're soon going to mean something else where there are 18. (Like 1,000 yards, formerly the rough milestone for a good season for a RB or WR. Well, add two more games...) How long will any records stand from the 16-game era when the season is 12.5% longer? 

How special are prime time games when they happen every-other day?

"Diluting the product" is the right way to look at it. How does the NFL look if it approaches NBA levels of load management? How attractive are those two extra games when a team starts 1-7 and tanks for 10 games? At some point, more stops being a good thing. Is that point 32 teams and 18 games? Is it 34 teams and 20 games? Was it 30 teams and 16 games? I don't know. But part of what makes football great is the shorter schedule where every game matters more.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I agree with everything that was said above about the increasing risk of injury, diluting the product, and records being tainted. I'll add another thing that is rumored to being discussed in the commissioner's office. There is talk that if the league moves to 18 games, they might have - force! - the teams to mess with the rosters to keep the players...fresh and reducing injuries. For example, if the schedule is 18 games, players can only play 16 games or whatever, meaning teams would have to sit certain players for 2 games. How crazy is that? Can you imagine, say a Chief's game, and having to play, or if you're a fan watch, the backup quarterback play for the Chiefs while Patrick Mahomes stands on the sideline wearing a baseball cap! This opens up all cans of worms in all kind of areas, on and off the field.